Private Recruiting

[fromthetop2]

In reading your last paragraph of your previous post, I'll give you "whining" or "lamenting" in place of "complaining."

 

Point being is that if they are paying over and above for tuition, that is the result of the choice to attend private school. If you don't like the price, don't buy the product. Go to your zoned public school.

[hoopsinstead]

In reading your last paragraph of your previous post, I'll give you "whining" or "lamenting" in place of "complaining."

 

Point being is that if they are paying over and above for tuition, that is the result of the choice to attend private school.  If you don't like the price, don't buy the product.  Go to your zoned public school.

825676736[/snapback]

 

Fromthetop, you have totally missed the point. Nobody that is paying their own way is complaining about what they are paying. The problem is that there are athletes who are having their way paid illegally which is a TSSAA death penalty violation but no one is getting caught. Switch over to the previous thread that talks about scholarships at private schools for further responses on this issue.

[rollredroll]

In reading your last paragraph of your previous post, I'll give you "whining" or "lamenting" in place of "complaining."

 

Point being is that if they are paying over and above for tuition, that is the result of the choice to attend private school.  If you don't like the price, don't buy the product.  Go to your zoned public school.

825676736[/snapback]

 

I am hardly complaining, whining, or lamenting. You’re taking the wrong angle on this one (or at least misinterpreting mine).

 

The $7-8K I mentioned is not out-of-pocket money for frills (field trips, class rings, yearbooks, etc.); those are dollars that are paid out of the parents’ pockets just to cover the tuition shortfall between full freight tuition and the financial aid supplement provided by the school.

 

My point is that many of the kids who are perceived as “recruited athletes” at private schools are, in fact, kids whose parents are still paying significant out-of-pocket dollars just to cover tuition (and in the case of some of the DII private schools, the families on aid are paying more money out of their own pockets to cover partial tuition than they would have to pay to cover full tuition a less expensive DI private school). This is not complaining; this is evidence that the inducements that the anti-private crowd thinks that private schools offer are, in many cases, imaginary.

 

I have a hard time buying the theory that, for example, a DII private school that makes 80-90% of the kids pay $14,000+ to attend school, and another 10-20% of the kids pay an average of $7,000-$8,000 to attend school, as having that significant of an advantage over a public school, even with so-called “limitless” student drawing pools of private schools. Granted, the dollars are mostly lower when one looks at smaller private schools, but then we’re talking about DI private schools – where all parents have to pay full tuition. Nevertheless, my point remains the same – forcing parents (whether they complain or not) to go out-of-pocket, and in some cases significantly, to have a child attend school mitigates some of the advantage that private schools supposedly have by being able to draw kids from anywhere.

 

hoopsinstead is understanding the issue correctly - it's not an issue about parents' choices (nor their personal reaction to those choices); it's an issue of whether or not tuition dollars over and above FA are being covered by people other than the student's parents.

Edited May 18, 2005 by rollredroll

[hoopsinstead]

Its not the families that are actually paying the $7 to $8m mentioned above that are causing any problems. That is their choice and I'm happy they can go where they want to with part of their tuition paid via legitimate financial aid. The problems lie in having that remaining $7 to $8m paid by an interested party, or work study or a loan. Schools paying the entire way for star athletes that can't afford any tuition obviously have an advantage. Why don't they pay the entire way for these same kids that they are so interested in helping to educate but simply stipulate that they can't play varsity athletics so that it is legal and they have truly helped the kid?

[rollredroll]

Schools paying the entire way for star athletes that can't afford any tuition obviously have an advantage. Why don't they pay the entire way for these same kids that they are so interested in helping to educate but simply stipulate that they can't play varsity athletics so that it is legal and they have truly helped the kid?

825676787[/snapback]

 

That would beg the question, is the child with a 4.0 GPA and 1450 SAT, and who also is a NCAA DI prospect in a sport, a "student" or "athlete"? I don't think many of the privates want to get into a discrimination lawsuit.

 

In looking at one of the DII private school's tax returns from a few years back, I don't recall seeing any students on full financial aid (this school listed names and FA dollar amounts; the names have since been blacked out). While I'm sure that there are exceptions at most schools, I'd say the vast majority of kids on FA are still paying some, even if nominal, out-of-pocket tuition.

[hoopsinstead]

When the remainder of the aid is being paid by an interested party, it's not going to show up on the school's tax return. I'm sure the donor doesn't want it showing up anywhere for that matter. The AD and coaches have a moral, ethical and a TSSAA legal obligation to know what is going on in their programs, even if they aren't a direct party to the transaction.

[rollredroll]

When the remainder of the aid is being paid by an interested party, it's not going to show up on the school's tax return. I'm sure the donor doesn't want it showing up anywhere for that matter. The AD and coaches have a moral, ethical and a TSSAA legal obligation to know what is going on in their programs, even if they aren't a direct party to the transaction.

825676806[/snapback]

 

Agreed, but until people start showing evidence of money laundering or money order receipts or whatever, there are going to be a lot of non-believers out there on the private side. Money (of any significance, as it relates to the issue of recruiting) usually leaves a trail, and in many cases to people looking for a trail, so it's going to take someone coming up with that kind of evidence to make a dent in the P/P debate as it relates to recruiting/inducements.

[hoopsinstead]

Agreed, but until people start showing evidence of money laundering or money order receipts or whatever, there are going to be a lot of non-believers out there on the private side.  Money (of any significance, as it relates to the issue of recruiting) usually leaves a trail, and in many cases to people looking for a trail, so it's going to take someone coming up with that kind of evidence to make a dent in the P/P debate as it relates to recruiting/inducements.

825676815[/snapback]

 

Agreed! A more zealous effort on the part of TSSAA would help as well. I think if more parents understood and knew the rules, they would do a better job of revolting against the coaches and ADs that turn their backs and demand that the obvious situations be investigated. It's easy to find case after case of star athletes that could not possibly afford to pay any tuition but are still attending and playing varsity athletics at private schools who have a policy of only allowing 50 to 60% of the tuition to come from bonafied financial aid (from the scholarship funds of the school) as determined by Princeton. I think most parents just assume that it is legal to pay a full ride for an underprivileged athlete.

[cbg]

I for one have a difficult time thinking that someone would just give away 10, 20, or 30 thousand dollars (under the table) and not be able to have a legal tax deduction. That is just too much $$$$$$ to walk away from.

 

If this were a wide spread problem the parents of students that pay full tuition would be raising _ _ _ _ because little johnny or suzie are not playing and the financial aid kids are. These wealthy parents would terminate the contract of the headmaster in a new york minute.

[hoopsinstead]

I for one have a difficult time thinking that someone would just give away 10, 20, or 30 thousand dollars (under the table) and not be able to have a legal tax deduction.  That is just too much $$$$$$ to walk away from. 

 

If this were a wide spread problem the parents of students that pay full tuition would be raising _ _ _ _ because little johnny or suzie are not playing and the financial aid kids are.  These wealthy parents would  terminate the contract of the headmaster in a new york minute.

825676861[/snapback]

 

Welcome to the discussion! My observation is that it occurs for a couple of athletes in the major sports like football and basketball-both boys and girls. In high school, one stud can make a huge difference, much less two. Once success comes, several other great athletes follow--many who need some partial financial aid that they get legitimately. As long as one or two studs are kept every year, a dynasty can be built! This is not necessarily funded by one person, but more likely by a person for football, a person for boys basketball and another person or two for girls basketball. People who can afford this understand that the penalty for getting caught far outways an itemized deduction for less than 35% of your charitable contributions given the phase out at high income levels so I really don't think they're too worried about not getting the deduction. Generous wealthy people bail out friends and family all the time and can't take a deduction for it. You're right that a lot of parents do get upset but nothing is ever done about it as long as winning means everything. More need to get upset and rock the boat even if they are considered traitors for not supporting what it takes to win at any cost. All of this is old news. What I'm really curious about and don't understand is how the "work study" and "loans" work and how those are not considered illegal. Someone in the know please enlighten us on how this works and why it is legal???

[eagletime]

I've got an idea. The public play public and the private play private.

Would this be a bad idea? Don't think so! thumb

[Indian]

I've got an idea.  The public play public and the private play private. 

Would this be a bad idea?  Don't think so! thumb

825677287[/snapback]

 

 

Too many privates disagree, they had the opportunity to move to Division II but didn't. The excuse was too much travel (even though having all in one division would reduce travel for most).