The Official St. Louis vs. Atlanta Thread

[gotmilk?]

And for that last part about the GM and front office personnnel....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Those player that we have out there on the field didn't just fall from the sky.  We didn't just buy all of our wins.  It takes a good front office and GM to make a great team.  I guess all of that was luck, huh?

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Or just having the money to spend! It doesnt take a great front office to buy players, but it takes a great front office and great scouting to be able to succeed with your own players! The Braves do not have one player starting in the field that they did not bring through the ranks themselves(LaRoche, Giles, Furcal, Chipper, Johnson, Jones, Francouer) and that includes Estrada who was brought over from the Phillies, but spent a year or two in the Braves minor league system! But the Cards who only have 2 that start(Pujols and Molina) have 6 players they bought(Grudzielanek, Eckstein, Rolen, Sanders, Edmonds, and Walker)

[jusdontno]

Neither team has been at full strength most of the year and they are still leading their divisions. Rookies and extras are coming through for both teams. The Cardinals appear the better team but should be a great series if they both make NLCS. Astros will be a threat in short series as could Marlins because of excellent SP, but in the end Cardinals go to WS. Now they just need to win.

[Solomon]

Or just having the money to spend! It doesnt take a great front office to buy players, but it takes a great front office and great scouting to be able to succeed with your own players! The Braves do not have one player starting in the field that they did not bring through the ranks themselves(LaRoche, Giles, Furcal, Chipper, Johnson, Jones, Francouer) and that includes Estrada who was brought over from the Phillies, but spent a year or two in the Braves minor league system! But the Cards who only have 2 that start(Pujols and Molina) have 6 players they bought(Grudzielanek, Eckstein, Rolen, Sanders, Edmonds, and Walker)

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The two teams use different philosophies on how to create their team. The Braves front office has done an excellent job of drafting and developing talent consistently over the past decade, and the Cards front office has thrived on making good late season deals for players and then locking them up for a long time. The Cards have also done an excellent job of acquiring great bench roll players. Mabry, Taguchi, Nunez, etc. It's all about philosophy of the front office, and both teams have excelled in their style.

 

As for payroll........the Cards are at $92.1 million and the Braves are at $86.5 million. Both teams COULD spend more on payroll if they wanted, but both teams ownership have instituted a self-imposed cap that neither really wants to break.

[Fuggly63]

Just go back to my Braves thread and read, I said from the gets go that the Nats would fall and the Braves would rise! I dont think 75% thought the Nats would win it, maybe 30-40%, but not any where near 75%!

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Yeah, you're probably right, but still. That is a pretty significant amount, especially if you look at how many fans and wins they had as the expos last year. I predicted them dead last through spring training, and they ended up surprising a lot of people towards the all star break, including myself. Braves will still win the division quite easily.

 

Or just having the money to spend! It doesnt take a great front office to buy players, but it takes a great front office and great scouting to be able to succeed with your own players! The Braves do not have one player starting in the field that they did not bring through the ranks themselves(LaRoche, Giles, Furcal, Chipper, Johnson, Jones, Francouer) and that includes Estrada who was brought over from the Phillies, but spent a year or two in the Braves minor league system! But the Cards who only have 2 that start(Pujols and Molina) have 6 players they bought(Grudzielanek, Eckstein, Rolen, Sanders, Edmonds, and Walker)

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Yeah, but like Solomon said, the payrolls are pretty close. Not only that, people that STL started with are old and long gone. Soon, STL will be starting out young again. Walker, Edmonds, and Sanders aren't getting any younger, but guys like Taguchi and J-Rod are there ready to back them up.

[Opperman]

One thing I would like to ask is.....When Jim Edmonds was batting in the 8th he had a ball that almost hit him and his bat went around as though he had took a swing and the ump said that he was trying to get out of the way........But I thought that if your bat went across the plate in anyway it was a strike no matter what.........

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No. The rulebook doesn't say anything about the bat crossing the plate. It's the umpire's judgment whether the batter "struck at the ball". Spinning out of the way clearly isn't that.

 

The bat crossing the plate is one of the tests umpires use to determine that, but it's not part of the rule.

[Opperman]

Or just having the money to spend! It doesnt take a great front office to buy players, but it takes a great front office and great scouting to be able to succeed with your own players! The Braves do not have one player starting in the field that they did not bring through the ranks themselves(LaRoche, Giles, Furcal, Chipper, Johnson, Jones, Francouer) and that includes Estrada who was brought over from the Phillies, but spent a year or two in the Braves minor league system! But the Cards who only have 2 that start(Pujols and Molina) have 6 players they bought(Grudzielanek, Eckstein, Rolen, Sanders, Edmonds, and Walker)

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Grudzielanek, Eckstein, and Sanders were the only free agents. The Cardinals didn't buy Edmonds, Rolen, or Walker, they traded for them.

[Gerry Bertier]

All I know is when St. Louis wins 13 straight division titles(soon to be 14), then you can rag on the Braves. The Braves bring in a couple big name free agents every now and then, but if you notice they are gone in a couple of years. Braves win through their depth of their minor league system. So go ahead and think your Cardinals are on the same level as the Braves, but they're not. A real baseball fan wouldn't think the Nationals would win the division, cause the Braves have been slow starters lately but always deliver. That is like thinking the Orioles would win the AL East, some things will never happen.

[Solomon]

So go ahead and think your Cardinals are on the same level as the Braves, but they're not.

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Your right, we're not on your level, we're one above! Two of the original franchises, and we've got more of everything - rings, hall of famers, you name it, St. Louis has more! Well, expcept the fact you are in your third city and we're still in the original! thumb

 

By the way Gerry, what year did you become a Braves fan? 91 or 92?

[gotmilk?]

Your right, we're not on your level, we're one above!  Two of the original franchises, and we've got more of everything - rings, hall of famers, you name it, St. Louis has more!  Well, expcept the fact you are in your third city and we're still in the original! thumb

 

By the way Gerry, what year did you become a Braves fan?  91 or 92?

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More division titles?

[Solomon]

More division titles?

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I've actually got more in that department to enlighten all of you with when I get home from work today. I tried to post it last night, but it was late and my computer locked.

[Solomon]

I've actually got more in that department to enlighten all of you with when I get home from work today.  I tried to post it last night, but it was late and my computer locked.

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Ok, I went through every year since the NL began is 1892 on www.baseball-reference.com and added up the cumulative total records of the Braves and Cards. The grand totals through the 2004 season are...

 

St. Louis - 8896-8448 (.513 pct)

Atlanta - 8447-8867 (.488 pct)

 

(Please note that in the early years that rain-outs weren't made up as frequently as today unless to standings were riding on it - hence the discrepency in games played.)

 

There. Since Atlanta fans are so hung-ho over the divisional titles, aka their regular season achievements, I thought I would point out that even then, they still trail the Cards in all time regular season wins. Congrats, win your division 20 more years in a row, and you might catch us in wins.

[Gerry Bertier]

Your right, we're not on your level, we're one above!  Two of the original franchises, and we've got more of everything - rings, hall of famers, you name it, St. Louis has more!  Well, expcept the fact you are in your third city and we're still in the original! thumb

 

By the way Gerry, what year did you become a Braves fan?  91 or 92?

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First off I was born and raised a Braves fan, my dad has been a fan since the mid 60's and went through years of pain and suffering so don't excuse me of jumping on the bandwagon. I know the Dale Murphys, Greg Olsens, Ozzie Virgils, and Gerald Perrys of the 80s. Has anyone in professional have as many division titles in a row as the Braves do? it is unprecedented and probably won't ever be duplicated. The streak will probably reach 20 years. 43 Hall of Famers have played for the Braves compared to 37 players that have played for the Cardinals. Oh yeah and one thing the Braves have and the Cardinals don't? The all-time homerun record in Henry Aaron. There I proved you wrong.