Trying to teach my son "submarine" style pitching

[jdmtpb]

cc, Vultor is right, so you need to work on both his arms so he can switch during a game if one arm get tired. That way he will stay fresh and he should be able to last twice as long. Using both arms will also help him in casting while bass fishing when he is in some of those tight spots.

 

i was just about to say that casting side arm with a 5 lb sinker and bobber when fishing for brim and blue gill should help him with his motion.... make sure that he casts it as far as it will go. need at least 300 ft. of line... 12 lb test will work fine.

 

he needs to fish everyday he's not playing. if he plays everyday, send him out fishin' after the games at least every other day

 

and i agree on the change - drag the knuckles, much more effective and if your smart could lead to an endorsement from nu-skin or a bandage company

Edited April 21, 2006 by jdmtpb

[tkeballer]

excuse my lack of baseball knowledge, but that's why i asked the question on this forum. there are a few out there making jokes i guess, but i am trying to better my son. any suggestions are appreciated

 

ccrider I appreciate your honesty and your want to make your son the best rec baller he can be. It is funny that you mentioned bowling in an earlier post b/c my son (who is a year young than your son and a side armer also) Had pitched 6innings vs. Clayborn's Bakery one thursday nite, 6 inn. 12 runs only 1 earned 162 pitches, we went to family bowling the next nite. His arm was alittle tender so he bowled left handed and did great!!! So we decided to pitch him underneath left handed also. He pitched 2 scoreless the next day vs. piggly wiggly. Now he pitches every inning of every game and our team (Fakes and Hooker) is in first place.

 

We practice his pitching form by watching a lot of Tv and immulating all the Pro's movements. I have even gotten quite good myself. I was thinking of making a video would your kid be interested in participating in the video. My son can even strike me out when he throws his new screwball, it breaks both ways!!!!

[LCborn]

Well, there's been a lot of advice given, so I don't know if I can add anything useful.

 

First, on the kickball thing, I'm kind of old school and I can remember reading Ted Williams' book on the subject and he recommends kicking on a slight upward plane.

 

On the submarine pitching, I don't know what's best. I mean, it sounds like an interesting idea to take a tall kid and, instead of having him throw downwards to the strike zone using his leverage, to have him release it at his knee--about waist high to a batter, I guess--so that it travels flat or upwards to the strike zone. Maybe there's a reason so few people do it, but that could just be me.

 

The other thing about submarine pitching: especially in Tennessee, there just aren't that many leagues playing in submarines. There are probably more around New London, Connecticut.

[Old Timer]

 

The other thing about submarine pitching: especially in Tennessee, there just aren't that many leagues playing in submarines. There are probably more around New London, Connecticut.

 

Exactly, LC, now you see why ccriders kid is going to dominate and get that college scholarship in TN.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Old Timer

[Far away]

I have no problem with a kid throwing from side arm, or submarine arm slots. Many "experts" are concerned with velocity blah blah. And I think that's great but many kids go thru HS and will never be able to break 84-86 no matter what they, their parents, or their coaches try (mechanics, long toss, work outs, weighted balls, or whatever fancy item or new wave book or DVD they will be happy to sell you). Sometimes it just comes down to genes. It's sad but true.

 

I feel sidearm/sub can make a average HS pitcher into a very effective member of your staff. I currently have 2 guys...1 sidearm and 1 submarine. Both of these young men would not have been able to pitch at the varsity level throwing "over the top"....... from a velocity and a stuff standpoint. We sat them down and offered them an opportunity to learn a new slot to help out our staff, both agreed because they knew they needed to make an adjustment if they wanted more time on the hill. This year both have ERA's in the ones and do and excellent job both starting and out of the pen. They have both become valued members of our staffs. One young man has even begun to be recruited because of his improvement and new arm slot (he added 2-4 mph to his fastball by just dropping down........go figure) The last young man we had prior to these two went from 5th best pitcher on the team the summer before his senior year to a scholarship player by end of his HS career. None of the side arm pitchers I have coached have ever had arm problems (we teach them the proper way to do it).

 

With all that said. It isn't for every kid and it isn't for every player. We look for young men who fit a mold to be able to drop down. ANd it is usually our last effort to get something out of him before the end of his HS career. It really helps that we have a coach on our staff with experience as a sidearmer......it paid his way thru college. Many people will turn their nose to the thought of it but it takes coaches willing to think outside the box pitching box sometimes. The downside of dropping a kid down is the fact he will struggle throwing in the field. Once you make that muscle memory it is hard to break and throws from the field (OF and SS/3B) will tend to run and sail. One part of our mold is pitcher only or a 1B man because of the problems they will have defensively throwing. So this might be something you think about before you drop down a 9 year old. But for a college aged player or a HS kid it isn't always a bad idea like the "experts" say. I've seen many a team get beat by those type of kids and in the end isn't that part of our job.....to win a game or two. I'm sure somebody will disagree with me but I'm just a coach.......not an "expert".

[Old Timer]

Sometimes it just comes down to genes.

 

Coach, would that be Gene Garber, former MLB sidearm pitcher for the Phillies back in the early 80's??? Otherwise, don't reckon I know of any sidewinders or submarine pitchers named Gene.

[ccriders25]

wow- you sure do take your sidearmers seriously! i had no idea there was that much to it - how it may effect them in another position for example. good point about the muscle memory. i can see where a kid would learn the submarine mechanics and then use them in other positions. my kid catches too. reckon he'll start droppin' 'er down back to the pitcher? or to second?

 

and all that talk about your mold... that sounds like it took some time to develop such a sound philosophy. if you dont mind telling - where did you learn so much about the art of the sidewinder??

 

for those of who who believe what TKE BALLER had to say about his kid.. dont believe it. i've seen his kid play. he couldnt play dead in a western

[Far away]

Actually I take pitching seriously because you know if you don't have it you don't win.

 

Where did I learn the art of the side winder. A golf course.

 

Sometimes it's good to ask questions and not know all the answers. When you get the opportunity to be around successful people you should ask questions......I did and came away with something to help my pitchers. From there you work to develop it into a simple philosophy that your players can understand.

 

I've had kids that throw 95 and kids throw 75. It's all about what you can do to help them be successful no matter which arm or arm slot they may use. It's like bunting. No one lines up at clinics to listen to the guy talk about bunting like they do for they guy teaching hitting. I'm sure Hitting videos out sell bunting videos every day of the week. But when it comes to winning teams and winning games, Man we have all needed that bunt to do it.

 

It's a simple game.......... coaches and parents sometimes make it tough.

[tkeballer]

You are obviously know nothing about baseball ccrider. My boy beat Skunk's Nest and Sunset on back to back nites and he didnt even give up any points. He has been an all-star every year and I have been the all-star coach twice. I have alot of phone numbers of parents who will vouch for my baseball knowledge, so if you wont to compare resume let me know.

Edited April 21, 2006 by tkeballer

[ccriders25]

Actually I take pitching seriously because you know if you don't have it you don't win.

 

Where did I learn the art of the side winder. A golf course.

 

Sometimes it's good to ask questions and not know all the answers. When you get the opportunity to be around successful people you should ask questions......I did and came away with something to help my pitchers. From there you work to develop it into a simple philosophy that your players can understand.

 

I've had kids that throw 95 and kids throw 75. It's all about what you can do to help them be successful no matter which arm or arm slot they may use. It's like bunting. No one lines up at clinics to listen to the guy talk about bunting like they do for they guy teaching hitting. I'm sure Hitting videos out sell bunting videos every day of the week. But when it comes to winning teams and winning games, Man we have all needed that bunt to do it.

 

It's a simple game.......... coaches and parents sometimes make it tough.

have you read any of the other posts on this thread?? or have you been watching bunting videos all day? let me know if youre ever speaking at a clinic... i'll walk right past the guy talking about hitting and come straight to you

[bobbob]

wow- you sure do take your sidearmers seriously! i had no idea there was that much to it - how it may effect them in another position for example. good point about the muscle memory. i can see where a kid would learn the submarine mechanics and then use them in other positions. my kid catches too. reckon he'll start droppin' 'er down back to the pitcher? or to second?

 

and all that talk about your mold... that sounds like it took some time to develop such a sound philosophy. if you dont mind telling - where did you learn so much about the art of the sidewinder??

 

for those of who who believe what TKE BALLER had to say about his kid.. dont believe it. i've seen his kid play. he couldnt play dead in a western

 

One concern I have that no one else has addressed is whether or not your boy is a lefty or righty? You rarely see a successful lefty submariner. This is due to the rotation of the earth working against a lefty's body and the gravitational pull on the earth's axis. If your boy is a lefty, I would agree with one of the earlier replies and just stick with bowling or maybe badminton.

[E5]

One concern I have that no one else has addressed is whether or not your boy is a lefty or righty? You rarely see a successful lefty submariner. This is due to the rotation of the earth working against a lefty's body and the gravitational pull on the earth's axis. If your boy is a lefty, I would agree with one of the earlier replies and just stick with bowling or maybe badminton.

 

bobob,

 

You sound like your from Idabell! Badminton is an over head raquet sport. Lefty or righty does not matter. Gravity and science has no place in baseball. Coaches should teach what has been taught forever...the "good ole boy" way. The real reason you see very few lefty submariners is two-fold. First, the way they wear their hats block their view of the plate at the critical "re-focus" point of the delivery. Secondly, the Navy only takes in a certain number of left-handed people sos the "real-life" submarine experience is lost. GRAVITY...next your going to tell me you believe the "kinetic link" junk....something about big muscles and little muscles. Everybody knows that you hit, throw, field, and run with the wrists...NOTHING more.