Rules question

[VolunteerGeneral]

During the JCM/Trezevant game Trezevant has the ball. The QB rolls out to throw a pass deep over the middle.(about 20 yards downfield) The ball is tipped in the air by both the JCM defender and the Trezevant reciever and is subsequently intercepted by a 2nd JCM defender who started to return the ball. The referee, who I assume thought it was gonna be an incomplete pass after he saw it tipped away, blew an inadvertant whistle after the ball was intercepted and the play stopped.

 

In the aftermath there were 2 separate flags thrown during the play. There was one in the backfield against JCM for roughing the passer. There was another about 10 yards downfield from the line of scrimmage that was a 15 yard facemask against Trezevant.

 

My question...where is the ball placed and whose ball is it?

[robjim]

VG, was the facemask before or after the INT.?

 

During the JCM/Trezevant game Trezevant has the ball. The QB rolls out to throw a pass deep over the middle.(about 20 yards downfield) The ball is tipped in the air by both the JCM defender and the Trezevant reciever and is subsequently intercepted by a 2nd JCM defender who started to return the ball. The referee, who I assume thought it was gonna be an incomplete pass after he saw it tipped away, blew an inadvertant whistle after the ball was intercepted and the play stopped.

 

In the aftermath there were 2 separate flags thrown during the play. There was one in the backfield against JCM for roughing the passer. There was another about 10 yards downfield from the line of scrimmage that was a 15 yard facemask against Trezevant.

 

My question...where is the ball placed and whose ball is it?

[Rangerbook06]

Well if there was a roughing the passer against JCM, it should be Trezevant ball shouldn't it??? Thats like if a team misses a field goal, but the is roughing the kicker, the kicking team gets the ball back and an automatic 1st doen... But I don't know... Like you said, we need a refs opinion....

[robjim]

Can't have roughing the passer, until after he releases the ball. Up to that point he is a rusher. So the pass is on its' way. Still need to know when the facemask happened.

 

Well if there was a roughing the passer against JCM, it should be Trezevant ball shouldn't it??? Thats like if a team misses a field goal, but the is roughing the kicker, the kicking team gets the ball back and an automatic 1st doen... But I don't know... Like you said, we need a refs opinion....

[VolunteerGeneral]

VG, was the facemask before or after the INT.?

 

I`m assuming it was before the interception because the inadvertant whistle came just about a second or maybe two after the interception.

 

The refs ended up awarding the ball to JCM at the spot of the interception. I always thought that the play goes over on two offsetting 15 yard penalties. I didn`t know if the interception changed that.

[Grace Golden Eagles]

Offsetting penalties? Sounds like you replay the down to me.

[justanobserver]

replay the down.

Reads like both penalties occured before the int...

the down should be re-played... JCM can't have the ball because of the roughing penalty.

If it had been an inc. pass or a completion, the down is replayed because of the two penalties... the inadvertant whistle has nothing to do with that.

[JaxMan]

The correct call should have been Trezvant ball and the roughing the passer would have been enforced...the roughing the passer is assumed to have happened while the ball is in the air but before the interception...I have seen this happen often and the ball goes back to the offense and they are given the 1st down and yardage from the roughing the passer...I aam assuming the facemask occured after the pick...if not then the two would have been offsetting and the play would be done over...but if it was after pick, then Trezvant would have kept ball and had 1st down...

Edited October 9, 2006 by JaxMan

[VolunteerGeneral]

Well the facemask I`m pretty sure happened before the interception because the whistle blew so quick after the pick.

 

But in the end JCM was awarded the ball at the point of the interception.

[whistleblower]

Ok guys, here is the ruling. Since it was a forward pass (considered a loose ball play), the inadvertant whistle, according to the rule, would have automatically given the ball back to the offense, and the down replayed. Since there were two personal fouls, one on each team, you cannot ignore them either.

 

In my humble rule book knowledge, the the down would have been replayed, due to the loose ball inadvertant whistle. Since both teams committed 15 yd personal fouls against each other, unless they were inside the 30yd. line (where you would penalize them in order of their happening and mark off the yardage accordingly). However, the roughing the passer also carries an automatic 1st down with it.

 

So in conclusion, the offense gets the ball back at the same spot, replay the down but it will now be 1st down for the offense and the official gets scratched for causing all of this mess in the first place!!!!

[whistleblower]

Volunteer[/url]General' post='826180745' date='Oct 9 2006 - 03:49 PM']

Well the facemask I`m pretty sure happened before the interception because the whistle blew so quick after the pick.

 

But in the end JCM was awarded the ball at the point of the interception.

 

The whistle sounded after the interception? A roughing the passer penalty would have given the ball back to the offense anyways. Not sure why the defense retained possession of the ball on that one. You cannot ignore ANY personal fouls, especially a roughing the passer on an interception!

[bigwes68]

If there is ever such a thing as a GOOD time to have an inadvertent whistle, it is when you have a penalty that would be enforced anyway and the end result of the play isn't going to matter.

 

This is actually pretty simple: it's a double foul, penalties offset, replay the down. Inadvertent whistle doesn't matter.

 

Rule reference: 10-2-1b:

 

"It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which...There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession.... The penalties cancel and the down is replayed."