TSSAA Officials

[GC Grizzlies]

Whistleblower,

I was at a game at the Union County Tourney this week and saw some very good officiating and some of the worst I have seen before. We had a player that was obviously being singled out by one ref and had two fouls called on her before the game barely got started. The coach sat her on the bench for the rest of the quarter and let her go back in for qtr 2 with instructions not to foul. As soon as she was in the game she was called for number 3. She looked over at her coach who was about 10 feet away and said "Coach, I promise I didn't foul her." This was not spoken loudly or aimed at the referee, she was just telling her coach that she was trying to do what she was told. People in the stands didn't know what she had said. The ref hears her tell her coach that and call a technical on her. This gives her four personals with only about 3 minutes playing time! Where do you draw the line? This player was only talking to her coach. Does the referee have the right to Tee up for private conversation? We later find out the ref is a relative of a former teammate that thinks she was wronged by losing playing time to this girl two years ago. How professional is that?

 

Sounds like a raw deal if the official really did this with personal issues involved. I realize officials are human, but being human also allows them to do things like this if given the opportunity. When officials are assigned, it is usually not good to put someone related to the school or program in control of the game.

I saw a lot of flagrant fouls that were only called shooting fouls at the UC tourney. I think officals should get stricter with the break away foul calls. If a players almost takes down a shooter on a layup etc...or is extremely physical when they foul the shooter in a break away situation you almost never see an intentional foul called unless its near the end of the game. I think we need to protect the shooters in these situations. Going for the ball is one thing, physically knocking or driving a kid to the floor in these type of plays are intentional fouls even though most of them do not get called intentional. I would hate to see a player hurt on a foul like this. I think it would stop a lot of these fouls if officials called the flagrant or intentional foul.

[PHargis]

Sounds like a raw deal if the official really did this with personal issues involved. I realize officials are human, but being human also allows them to do things like this if given the opportunity. When officials are assigned, it is usually not good to put someone related to the school or program in control of the game.

I saw a lot of flagrant fouls that were only called shooting fouls at the UC tourney. I think officals should get stricter with the break away foul calls. If a players almost takes down a shooter on a layup etc...or is extremely physical when they foul the shooter in a break away situation you almost never see an intentional foul called unless its near the end of the game. I think we need to protect the shooters in these situations. Going for the ball is one thing, physically knocking or driving a kid to the floor in these type of plays are intentional fouls even though most of them do not get called intentional. I would hate to see a player hurt on a foul like this. I think it would stop a lot of these fouls if officials called the flagrant or intentional foul.

Good post. Rules requiring judgement like that for a seasoned referee would not be a problem but with new officials, why could not the Association provide some guidence so that those situations be consistant thruout the district. The judgement issue, it seems to me, is the reason those fouls are not called more. If incidential contact fouls seem to be difficult to call, those two types would be difficult also. Really a lot of judgement involved and with three officials being involved........... Seasoned referees might have no difficulty at all. A response at some time might be good.

Because some of us may not understand the scope of the association duties, someone might lightly outline what they are and is there some structure or is it really a loosely structured group.

[BBALLTN]

I think most Officials do a great job I think alot of what we see is so many fouls being committed that if you call them all the game gets so long and we all know theirs a Boys game right behind the Girls and thier is School the next day. With this being said I think the game has gotten more physical than ever over the past few years and it will continue so until we get the teams to playing one game a night.

[buzzerbeater2]

I am from the Middle Tennessee area and I have seen more female officials officiating this year than I believe I ever have. Thats great. I think it looks well for TSSAA to have women officials on the floor and in their association. I have been to a few games in the East Tennessee region and have seen a couple of females on the floor. I believe the Mid TN region has quite a few females. The one female official that stands out from the Mid TN region is the tall blonde, I seen her work a couple of games last year and a couple already this year. I'm not sure how long she has been doing it, but she does a great job. I'll put money on it that we will be seeing her on tv in a few years on a college floor. She is smooth.

 

I believe that TSSAA should try recruiting more women officials. I have heard girls in the past say that they enjoy it when they have a female officiating their games.

 

One more small comment: I have seen several new officials to the floor this year. Do the new officials just jump right into a Varsity Crew, or do they have to work some elementary and middle school games first for the experience?

[utvols1]

I am from the Middle Tennessee area and I have seen more female officials officiating this year than I believe I ever have. Thats great. I think it looks well for TSSAA to have women officials on the floor and in their association. I have been to a few games in the East Tennessee region and have seen a couple of females on the floor. I believe the Mid TN region has quite a few females. The one female official that stands out from the Mid TN region is the tall blonde, I seen her work a couple of games last year and a couple already this year. I'm not sure how long she has been doing it, but she does a great job. I'll put money on it that we will be seeing her on tv in a few years on a college floor. She is smooth.

 

I believe that TSSAA should try recruiting more women officials. I have heard girls in the past say that they enjoy it when they have a female officiating their games.

 

One more small comment: I have seen several new officials to the floor this year. Do the new officials just jump right into a Varsity Crew, or do they have to work some elementary and middle school games first for the experience?

 

When a new official comes in to the association they generally call b-team, freshman, and middle school games for several years and attend a officials camp before they are moved up to the varsity level. The supervisors go and watch everyone, the new guys and the old guys and then they make the decision on who goes out and gets the varsity games. hope this was helpful!

[PHargis]

When a new official comes in to the association they generally call b-team, freshman, and middle school games for several years and attend a officials camp before they are moved up to the varsity level. The supervisors go and watch everyone, the new guys and the old guys and then they make the decision on who goes out and gets the varsity games. hope this was helpful!

You mentioned "the" Association. is there only one association?

[utvols1]

You mentioned "the" Association. is there only one association?

 

TSSAA is the association I am referring to. Across the state there are "chapters" of officials. In east Tennessee there is the Tri-cities chapter, Smokey Mountain chapter, and a Knoxville chapter, each with schools that they provide officials for. Qualifications to become a official are uniform across the state. Does that answer your question? Hope it helps...

[dudeutm2002]

Personally, one of the old vets threw out a fan with 2.6 seconds remaining in the Collinwood vs. Gleason game at the Huntingdon Point Guard Classic in overtime.

 

Now, as an official myself (not basketball), I've thrown a crowd member out, threatened others, but with 2.6 seconds left and Gleason up by three, with Collinwood having to run the floor to make a long three to tie the game, I think I would've just let this guy's comments glance off me. If he keeps it up in the second OT, throw him out early on.

 

Plus, the guy was in a wheel chair, which completely set their crowd on ear.

[PHargis]

Personally, one of the old vets threw out a fan with 2.6 seconds remaining in the Collinwood vs. Gleason game at the Huntingdon Point Guard Classic in overtime.

 

Now, as an official myself (not basketball), I've thrown a crowd member out, threatened others, but with 2.6 seconds left and Gleason up by three, with Collinwood having to run the floor to make a long three to tie the game, I think I would've just let this guy's comments glance off me. If he keeps it up in the second OT, throw him out early on.

 

Plus, the guy was in a wheel chair, which completely set their crowd on ear.

So that the action might be better understood , was it done thru security which each school provides and is there to keep order at their events. And was there some way that, in a case like that, that reports had to be filed to detail the action being done and if so, where do those reports go to? From your description, it appears crowd security may not be doing its job in the area you are officiating or its presence is not having a calming effect desired. Maybe comments from referees might be in order if there is any.

As a fan, if reading of this is best understood and i am sure it isn't, if many of these events have the effect on fans you are describing, school security and education has something to do to prepare fans of their role in attending games. If an official continually has to take the actions you have described, does not an Association Chapter have some responsibility to make all aware so that some other corrective action might be taken?

Having to continually do the things described also puts a target of the officials chest when he/she steps on the floor or field as fans have memories like elephants. This post, in no way, insinuates there is no authority to take such actions.

To bring everything in to perspective, my understanding is that the TSSAA runs these events and do it under the auspices of the Schools who pay the bills and are responsibile for the event and who has farmed out the technical, officiating part of the event. Its also my understing that the schools and Principals involved along with TSSAA and Independent Official Associations have dual and cooperative responsibilites to put on an attractive and safe game. All doing their jobs makes one wonder why drastic actions have to be taken to put on a game if it happens continually and may reflect on a break down somewhere in the putting on of a game and evident misunderstandings. But maybe a lot of fans don't understand what goes on in the putting on of an event and the effect their actions may take on its surroundings. But all have a responsibility up and down the chain, it appears to me but I may be wrong in a lot of my "assumptions".

Edited January 4, 2007 by PHargis

[dudeutm2002]

So that the action might be better understood , was it done thru security which each school provides and is there to keep order at their events. And was there some way that, in a case like that, that reports had to be filed to detail the action being done and if so, where do those reports go to? From your description, it appears crowd security may not be doing its job in the area you are officiating or its presence is not having a calming effect desired. Maybe comments from referees might be in order if there is any.

As a fan, if reading of this is best understood and i am sure it isn't, if many of these events have the effect on fans you are describing, school security and education has something to do to prepare fans of their role in attending games. If an official continually has to take the actions you have described, does not an Association Chapter have some responsibility to make all aware so that some other corrective action might be taken?

Having to continually do the things described also puts a target of the officials chest when he/she steps on the floor or field as fans have memories like elephants. This post, in no way, insinuates there is no authority to take such actions.

To bring everything in to perspective, my understanding is that the TSSAA runs these events and do it under the auspices of the Schools who pay the bills and are responsibile for the event and who has farmed out the technical, officiating part of the event. Its also my understing that the schools and Principals involved along with TSSAA and Independent Official Associations have dual and cooperative responsibilites to put on an attractive and safe game. All doing their jobs makes one wonder why drastic actions have to be taken to put on a game if it happens continually and may reflect on a break down somewhere in the putting on of a game and evident misunderstandings. But maybe a lot of fans don't understand what goes on in the putting on of an event and the effect their actions may take on its surroundings. But all have a responsibility up and down the chain, it appears to me but I may be wrong in a lot of my "assumptions".

 

This fan was yelling at the referee, I'm pretty sure, and some derogatory remarks, I am sure, but he was in no way causing a scene anymore than the fans standing in Collinwood's stands were by yelling at disputable calls. It wasn't like it was a riot, as a matter of fact, the cop who was told to escort this man from the gym was chuckling with the man while explaining that he was just the messenger. The official came to the cop during a timeout with 2.6 remaining in OT, and said, "I want this guy out of here.", or something to that affect. I was sitting right near the cop.

 

To me it was unnecessary, because it made the crowd, which was not happy with the officials, nor not violent, obviously angry. I mean, he threw out a crippled man with just 2.6 seconds remaining in an overtime that they were surely going to lose.

 

And he was not being "loud", whatever he was saying was at a civilized manner. This particular official, if I told who he was, there would be a plethora of comments on things he has done wrong over the years.

 

This was just another in his long list to make friends. Like I said, I understand ejecting a crowd member. I've done it once in four years of officiating, and threatened a few others.

 

However, with the game winding down, and the fans already thinking you caused them to lose the game, that creates more grief than it is worth.

 

Would it really have hurt this official to listen to this guy for 2.6 more seconds?

 

I think not. Did it hurt this official in the eyes of both crowds to eject him so late in the game with the outcome decided?? Indeed.

[GreenMan]

This fan was yelling at the referee, I'm pretty sure, and some derogatory remarks, I am sure, but he was in no way causing a scene anymore than the fans standing in [url=http://www.coacht.com/inside/team.cfm?

 

 

And he was not being "loud", whatever he was saying was at a civilized manner. This particular official, if I told who he was, there would be a plethora of comments on things he has done wrong over the years.

 

 

 

Funny thing is Adam is paralyzed from the neck down. To say he was screaming is a joke. Adam can barely speak louder than the normal volume in which most conversations take place. I cant imagine the ref hearing him over the entire crowd.

 

Go ahead and state the refs name, he is obviously a coward to throw out Adam and let the other "Screaming" fans stay.

 

Tip to ref...........stop reading lips, or you might get your feelings hurt.

[PHargis]

TSSAA is the association I am referring to. Across the state there are "chapters" of officials. In east Tennessee there is the Tri-cities chapter, Smokey Mountain chapter, and a Knoxville chapter, each with schools that they provide officials for. Qualifications to become a official are uniform across the state. Does that answer your question? Hope it helps...

qualifications I understand but what about training? How is that done and is it done thru the chapters and is it done for all sports? What are the qualifications to become an Official and do all officials call all sports are do they just officiate the ones they are qualified or am I trying to define it too closely?