50% Rule & Summer Baseball

[putboobieincoach]

QUOTE(bigchief @ Mar 30 2007 - 12:58 PM) 826426612[/snapback]ksgovols, remember Can-do, Line-a-bed, Tennessee Tire, Shoetiques, Webb's Floor covering, Twitty City Hits, Pride etc.? Baseball was more play and less work back then. Adults have ruined it for the kids. Glory days, yeah they'll pass you by.

 

i feel like the older you get the less fun baseball is due to the pressure of tryin to get to the next level. man, if i do or dont get to the next level one thing will always be the same in my mind... BASEBALL IS THE BEST GAME IN THE WORLD!!!

[viking_fan]

QUOTE(bobbybooshay @ Mar 28 2007 - 07:21 PM) 826425248[/snapback]Well from what I hear the coaches are the ones that got this passed. Basketball and baseball coachs do so much cheating and gettin around the rules, this was put in so they could not practice year round. And in my opinion that is good.

 

If they got around the rules before, they will continue to get around them. This will not stop it.

[ksgovols]

QUOTE(bigchief @ Mar 30 2007 - 12:58 PM) 826426612[/snapback]ksgovols, remember Can-do, Line-a-bed, Tennessee Tire, Shoetiques, Webb's Floor covering, Twitty City Hits, Pride etc.? Baseball was more play and less work back then. Adults have ruined it for the kids. Glory days, yeah they'll pass you by.

 

 

Yep. We used to play the Shoetiques in Centennial Park. Nashville Post 5 too. No fences. Just some big old oak trees. I don't remember too many manicured fields like they have today. When our legion team couldn't find a game, we'd play the same Sr. Babe Ruth team out of Marshall County every other weekend. We must have played them a dozen times a summer. Good times!

[BBC]

QUOTE(tkeballer @ Mar 28 2007 - 08:56 PM) 826425302[/snapback]I find your post BBC disturbing and absolutely what is wrong with Tennessee baseball. Without a doubt i can tell you first hand that the extra work hs coaches are putting in the summer and demanding more from their players year round are not keeping players from getting seen but actually doing the opposite in that they are preparing more players for the next level. Scouts go where the talent is, it does not matter where they or who the talent is playing. I coach hs in central florida and down here everyone plays hs summer ball. There are scout teams that play on some weekends but everyone plays hs summer. The typical tennessee "travel team" does not exist down here. I can tell you I saw more scouts last summer on the hs summer circuit than i ever saw in tennessee when i ran elite summer tournaments. Case in point, Pat McMahon (uf head coach) watched 11 innings of a double header of my school and another this summer. both schools have less that 700 students and mcmahon wrote 4 pages of legal pad notes on the players he was there to see. We have 2 sophmores ( one is mine ) and one senior ranked in the top 50 of their classes according to perfect game in our local high school summer league. The scouts are at every game and some games we dont have umpires or turn on the schoreboard, it is all about instruction.

 

Anyone who thinks high school summer ball is not the same quality, I would like to pursade you to go watch the murfreesboro schools in the summer. they have raised the bar. They play every top team around and they travel all over the place. OH did i mention they always finish the summer with winning records and they have great spring programs.

 

The problem with summer baseball teams is there are always parents involved in some capacity. I have never spoken to a college or pro scout who wants speak with any parent. They want to speak to professionals like the players high school coach. You mention on this topic that scouts are looking for physical skills from 17-18 year olds, and i agree. But scouts can see physcial ability of a player regardless of the competition he is playing. What they dont know from summer baseball is the students academic ability, character and work ethic those are things scouts ALWAYS speak to the high school coaches about.

 

I mean this as no personal attack on you BBC. I dont know you or what you do. But I think high school coaches have accomplished great things through the hard work in the summer. Tennessee baseball needs that work to continue to close the gap between itself and other states. I dont feel like someone is discredited that.

 

Instead of "travel ball" Tennessee needs more scout teams that only travel to these elite showcase tournaments and promote the best players. Those dont interfere with other summer plans.

 

 

 

 

I don't want to be so bold as to judge you or your ability as a coach, but allow me to make some observations. It sounds like you as a coach are very knowledgeable and have done a good job with your son. It also sounds like the 2 schools you referred to, in the above response, are both private highschools. If this is true, then in many caeses these teams are very good for alot of reasons, 2 of which can be: 1) the coach may be very well known in the area as a good baseball guy and parents of talented kids tend to migrate to the program, 2) Sometimes, not always, and I am sure not in your case, but recruiting goes on at the private school level. Also, it would be interesting to know, the night the scout stayed for 11 innings what were the pitchers like he came to see.

 

I have seen the murfreesboro high school teams play in the summers and some years they are pretty good but not a match day in and day out for an elite summer team. I do think where most of us can agree is this, there are some good, no great high school coaches and there are some good, no great summer coaches. Parents do many times run the summer teams and many times HS coaches are just earning a few dollars in the summer. Pro scouts don't want to talk to mom or dad about their sons talent level. However, if that father is a good baseball guy and respected, I think that changes. My biggest issue with the highschool summer teams is that MOST not ALL coaches tell the kids if they don't play for the HS summer team they will not play for them during the spring. In my humble opinion, a high school coach should care enough about his/her players that they will allow the parents and the child an opportunity to choose what they feel is the best situation for the individual.

 

I do agree that pro scouts will go where the talent is. I think college recruiting is a little different, simply because of budget constraints. They tend to want to go where the greatest pool of talent is playing. I do agree that a good baseball guy can see talent no matter where it is or who it is playing against, but they will always seek to measure it by a standard. Good case is this: We all know of a NBA player who signed a minor league contract. He had talent, good speed, good hand speed, good arm and lord knows GREAT athletic ability. Only problem was when you matched him against other similar skills, he could not get it done. So I guess what I would say is in most cases it matters as much who you play as how you play.

 

In closing, I'm not looking for you or anyone else to agree with me, sometimes we just agree to disagree. I am sorry if I offended you or any others with my statements, it is just simply my close observations of the game over the past 30 or so years. Have a great day and good luck to you, your son and your team.

 

BBC

[BBC]

QUOTE(putboobieincoach @ Mar 30 2007 - 06:58 PM) 826426776[/snapback]i feel like the older you get the less fun baseball is due to the pressure of tryin to get to the next level. man, if i do or dont get to the next level one thing will always be the same in my mind... BASEBALL IS THE BEST GAME IN THE WORLD!!!

 

 

You have a great attitude. Work hard, prepare yourself, do your best and if it is meant to happen it will. I think when you speak of the next level you are talking about baseball and I assume that is something you would like to do. However, if you don't make it in baseball, with an attitude like this, you will make it in life.

[cbg]

IMO, this is what will happen.

 

1. The elite players will play for one of the few elite teams and we will probably only have 6-8 of them in Tennessee. These teams will play 60-75 games in June & July and will continue to play some showcase tournaments in the fall.

2. The average players will play for other teams and there will be several of of the average teams and they will play around 45-50 games in June & July.

3. The young players and older players with less skills will go back and play in their community rec leagues. Some of these leagues used to be very strong and I look for them to make a resurgence.

 

The true high school Summer league was very weak but it did allow the high school coach to work with the young kids and give them alot of opportunities at vaious positions. If the coach wanted to work with a pitcher he could do so where the player may not pitch on one of the better Summer teams.

 

What Tennessee needs is Scout Ball like they have in Florida, Texas and California. The MLB organizatons sponsor these teams and they play a 9 inning wood bat game on Saturday and Sunday starting Labor Day (1st of Sept.) weekend and finish around Halloween (end of October). The scouts coach the teams, recruit the players and it is strickly a developmental program.

[BBC]

QUOTE(cbg @ Apr 4 2007 - 08:59 AM) 826429612[/snapback]IMO, this is what will happen.

 

1. The elite players will play for one of the few elite teams and we will have probably only have 6-8 of them in Tennessee. These teams will play 60-75 games in June & July and will continue to play some showcase tournaments in the fall.

2. The average players will play for other teams and there will be several of of the average teams and they will play around 45-50 games in June & July.

3. The young players and older players will less skills will go back and play in their community rec leagues. Some of these leagues used to be very strong and I look for them to make a resurgence.

 

The true high school Summer league was very weak but it did allow the high school coach to work with the young kids and give them alot of opportunities at vaious positions. If the coach wanted to work with a pitcher he could do so where the player may not pitch on one of the better Summer teams.

 

What Tennessee needs is Scout Ball like they have in Florida, Texas and California. The MLB organizatons sponsor these teams and they play a 9 inning wood bat game on Saturday and Sunday starting Labor Day (1st of Sept.) weekend and finish around Halloween (end of October). The scouts coach the teams, recruit the players and it is strickly a developmental program.

 

 

Not a bad plan, actually a pretty good plan.

[tkeballer]

QUOTE(cbg @ Apr 4 2007 - 08:59 AM) 826429612[/snapback]The true high school Summer league was very weak but it did allow the high school coach to work with the young kids and give them alot of opportunities at vaious positions. If the coach wanted to work with a pitcher he could do so where the player may not pitch on one of the better Summer teams.

 

What Tennessee needs is Scout Ball like they have in Florida, Texas and California. The MLB organizatons sponsor these teams and they play a 9 inning wood bat game on Saturday and Sunday starting Labor Day (1st of Sept.) weekend and finish around Halloween (end of October). The scouts coach the teams, recruit the players and it is strickly a developmental program.

 

 

 

I totally agree. Good coaches willing to work with their kids sohould be allowed to do so in the summer. the elite scout teams play in the fall. If your son gets the opportunity to be apart of a truly elite summer team such as some East Cobb teams, Midland, us national then no coach is going to deprive a kid of that opportunity. but every little tema that pops up is not better than team structured development from a good high school coach.

 

As for my situation, BBC, I coach at a PUBLIC school of 450 students.My son is only 18months old so he is not ready to contribute just yet. 85% free and reduced lunch and all of my kids are my kids zoned for my school. I am in a place where people say you cannot win in baseball. My school had not won more than 2 games in 10years before I arrived. We are now a true contender in our classification, with a very good record and we start 5 sophs and 4 juniors. I have two juniors who will play NAIA, JC Baseball and all 5 sophs will play at the next level 2 have a chance of getting drafted. The ONLY differnce in my program is that I have gotten a tremendous effort from already great athletes in the summer and fall. My team resembles what most people in tennessee would say is a basketball or track team but they have accepted coaching and because EVERYONE down here plays high school summer ball they play against great competition. Yes the night Pat McMahon (HEAD COACH University of florida) sat and watch us plyed two draftable kids were on the mound, but that is the point I make Coach McMahon saw my whole team play not just one player. In your system all of my middle of the players would be on travel teams palying other middle of the road travel teams(so they can get seen). My young men played 11 innings in front of a man who was the head coach of the national runner up at the time what travel team can sya that.

 

I also agree true scout teams in the fall are a must in tennessee. right now tennessee kids are losing exposure every day.

 

BBC like i said not an attack on you. I just think tennessee needs radical change in the summer and i think people have to become more open to that. Being in Florida for 3 years now I can tell you tennessee coaches are working harder than there couterparts in fla and because of that alone tennessee is producing a better brand of baseball.

[bluecaptain]

QUOTE(tkeballer @ Apr 4 2007 - 10:12 AM) 826429661[/snapback]I totally agree. Good coaches willing to work with their kids sohould be allowed to do so in the summer. the elite scout teams play in the fall. If your son gets the opportunity to be apart of a truly elite summer team such as some East Cobb teams, Midland, us national then no coach is going to deprive a kid of that opportunity. but every little tema that pops up is not better than team structured development from a good high school coach.

 

As for my situation, BBC, I coach at a PUBLIC school of 450 students.My son is only 18months old so he is not ready to contribute just yet. 85% free and reduced lunch and all of my kids are my kids zoned for my school. I am in a place where people say you cannot win in baseball. My school had not won more than 2 games in 10years before I arrived. We are now a true contender in our classification, with a very good record and we start 5 sophs and 4 juniors. I have two juniors who will play NAIA, JC Baseball and all 5 sophs will play at the next level 2 have a chance of getting drafted. The ONLY differnce in my program is that I have gotten a tremendous effort from already great athletes in the summer and fall. My team resembles what most people in tennessee would say is a basketball or track team but they have accepted coaching and because EVERYONE down here plays high school summer ball they play against great competition. Yes the night Pat McMahon (HEAD COACH University of florida) sat and watch us plyed two draftable kids were on the mound, but that is the point I make Coach McMahon saw my whole team play not just one player. In your system all of my middle of the players would be on travel teams palying other middle of the road travel teams(so they can get seen). My young men played 11 innings in front of a man who was the head coach of the national runner up at the time what travel team can sya that.

 

I also agree true scout teams in the fall are a must in tennessee. right now tennessee kids are losing exposure every day.

 

BBC like i said not an attack on you. I just think tennessee needs radical change in the summer and i think people have to become more open to that. Being in Florida for 3 years now I can tell you tennessee coaches are working harder than there couterparts in fla and because of that alone tennessee is producing a better brand of baseball.

 

 

That you Spurlock?

[tkeballer]

QUOTE(bluecaptain @ Apr 4 2007 - 11:36 AM) 826429754[/snapback]That you Spurlock?

 

you know it

[bluecaptain]

QUOTE(tkeballer @ Apr 4 2007 - 12:01 PM) 826429773[/snapback]you know it

 

 

I am waiting for Mat, The Devil Dawg, to come home. He's done a wonderful job defending our country, and everyone is proud of him.

[BBC]

QUOTE(tkeballer @ Apr 4 2007 - 10:12 AM) 826429661[/snapback]I totally agree. Good coaches willing to work with their kids sohould be allowed to do so in the summer. the elite scout teams play in the fall. If your son gets the opportunity to be apart of a truly elite summer team such as some East Cobb teams, Midland, us national then no coach is going to deprive a kid of that opportunity. but every little tema that pops up is not better than team structured development from a good high school coach.

 

As for my situation, BBC, I coach at a PUBLIC school of 450 students.My son is only 18months old so he is not ready to contribute just yet. 85% free and reduced lunch and all of my kids are my kids zoned for my school. I am in a place where people say you cannot win in baseball. My school had not won more than 2 games in 10years before I arrived. We are now a true contender in our classification, with a very good record and we start 5 sophs and 4 juniors. I have two juniors who will play NAIA, JC Baseball and all 5 sophs will play at the next level 2 have a chance of getting drafted. The ONLY differnce in my program is that I have gotten a tremendous effort from already great athletes in the summer and fall. My team resembles what most people in tennessee would say is a basketball or track team but they have accepted coaching and because EVERYONE down here plays high school summer ball they play against great competition. Yes the night Pat McMahon (HEAD COACH University of florida) sat and watch us plyed two draftable kids were on the mound, but that is the point I make Coach McMahon saw my whole team play not just one player. In your system all of my middle of the players would be on travel teams palying other middle of the road travel teams(so they can get seen). My young men played 11 innings in front of a man who was the head coach of the national runner up at the time what travel team can sya that.

 

I also agree true scout teams in the fall are a must in tennessee. right now tennessee kids are losing exposure every day.

 

BBC like i said not an attack on you. I just think tennessee needs radical change in the summer and i think people have to become more open to that. Being in Florida for 3 years now I can tell you tennessee coaches are working harder than there couterparts in fla and because of that alone tennessee is producing a better brand of baseball.

 

 

 

tkeballer, I am glad you have had success, sounds like you are doing some things right. I do have a couple of questions for you and these may not be issues to you know.

 

1. Do you mandate that your players must play for you in the summer in order to play in the spring?

2. If you have a player talented enough to play for an elite level team with good to great instruction can he play for the elite and not your summer team?

3. If your school team is playing and a scout has the opportunity to see you play, given the talent level of the players you have, or he can see a travel team play with 10-15 DI talents and 2 - 5 draftable players who will the coach or scout go and watch?

 

It is all about the biggest bag for the buck. If I can go to a game in the summer and see 10-15 talented players in 1 location versus seeing 2-3 players at another location, the choice is easy. Unless one of those 2-3 players is 6'4" throwing 90-94 and preferably left handed. I fully understand the scout team concept. I guess my problem is that many, NOT ALL, HS coaches are limited in their ability to develop players for the next level. I think it should be left up to the parents and the player to decide what is best, but in my experience the HS coach squezzes the kid to play with him.