umps?

[ROCKMAN]

QUOTE(wad @ Apr 16 2007 - 10:50 PM) 826439101[/snapback]Your a JOKE, what you do in a close game is call the game. If the game is WELL out of hand you MANAGE the game. I bet you like to see your coach leave his starters in to pad their stats. But i will also say your the first one who would get on here and complain when one of those starters gets hurt in a blowout. I know your type I deal with them everyday. Sit down and enjoy the game. If you have the guts come join us. Maybe you can call a 4 and a half hour game 35-6 with your so called strike zone and look those kids in the face. Or better yet just sit in the cheap seats where you belong.

 

No I dont think the coach should leave his starters in. But I do beleive the subs should get a good strike zone. Been umping in a park for 9 or 10 years. Dont have many complants with my strike zone. I did complain and got out of the cheap seats.

So you dont know my type.

 

QUOTE(CUBCADET @ Apr 17 2007 - 07:17 AM) 826439180[/snapback]Riverdale man...you are absolutely right. I have worked tons of games at all levels, mostly HS and juco in the past 10 years or so. I try to be consistent game after game and I have a theory. Most if not all of the coaches WANT a large strike zone for both teams.That way their hitters dont stand there looking for a free pass and their defense doesnt go to sleep in the field. But the main thing is for the umpire to be CONSISTANT ALL DAY LONG..IF YOU START BIG ...STAY BIG UNTIL THE LAST OUT...It is a lot easier to expand just a little if the game gets out of hand but be careful, the only one that will look bad is you if you start calling everything that comes in the direction of the backstop, a strike. Ths funny thing to me is how the fans and coaches can see the corners etc so much better than the ump. AMAZING!!! I overheard a fan the other night say to another fan who had a smark remark like "hey blue, how could you call that a strike?" , He said, hey that pitch has been a strike all night long, and it is still a strike!! That made me feel good about myself that I was being consistent from start to finish...The coaches rarely ever say a word if you have the same zone, night after night, and for the whole game, for BOTH TEAMS!! I believe when the ump starts trying to HELP one team or another he is doing a very poor job and besides that , it is the WRONG thing to do. Coaches and fans try to get in the head of the umpire and sometime it works and will take the umps attention off the game and he will really screw up trying to do it to suit the crybabies just to keep them from getting on him. I hardly ever hear anything the crowd says but some of the younger umps do and it really effects their concentration and the quality of the job they do..I just tell them , Do the best you can, be consistent , and dont listen to the fans or coaches...I tell them that "IF THEY ARE CRYING ABOUT THE ZONE OR WHATEVER, AT LEAST THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION!!, whether they know what they are talking about or not..By the way, THERE ARE A LOT OF UMPIRE JOB OPENINGS AVAILABLE IN THE AREA!!!...but we are sort of like THE U. S. MARINE CORPS...we are looking for FEW good men!!! See you in Murfreesboro, Riverdale man..

Good post.

[init2winit]

QUOTE(ROCKMAN @ Apr 17 2007 - 08:49 AM) 826439241[/snapback]No I dont think the coach should leave his starters in. But I do beleive the subs should get a good strike zone. Been umping in a park for 9 or 10 years. Dont have many complants with my strike zone. I did complain and got out of the cheap seats.

So you dont know my type.

 

 

 

So what, you ump in a park guess that makes you a major league ump huh?

[ksgovols]

QUOTE(init2winit @ Apr 17 2007 - 10:00 AM) 826439315[/snapback]So what, you ump in a park guess that makes you a major league ump huh?

 

 

 

Come on init2winit. You've lurked for awhile. Finally got up the nerve to join coacht and make a post and this is it? This is the legacy you want to leave as your first post? You don't get a second chance at a first impression.

 

Get your head in the game! Offer something to the thread. Tell a war story about all the balls and strikes you've called or how many lousy umps there are. Every major league ump most likely started out in a park. Every ump in every park doesn't go on to the major leagues. See? That doesn't add anything to the conversation.

 

C- for research and effort.......

[Spark Plug]

I agree you have to have stones to umpire. You also have to have a clear interpretation of the rules and some umps do not. Umpires cost to much to screw up on big calls that have a major impact on the game. Balls and strikes are one thing, but major plays where there is major confusion and everyone is waiting for a call and one is not made, then that stinks. That has happened to us twice this year.

[catsbackr]

QUOTE(Spark Plug @ Apr 23 2007 - 08:33 AM) 826443294[/snapback]I agree you have to have stones to umpire. You also have to have a clear interpretation of the rules and some umps do not. Umpires cost to much to screw up on big calls that have a major impact on the game. Balls and strikes are one thing, but major plays where there is major confusion and everyone is waiting for a call and one is not made, then that stinks. That has happened to us twice this year.

 

"Umpires cost to much.....".

 

How much do you think an umpire makes?

 

Every umpire has to take an online test through the TSSAA website, they do have a clear interpretation of the rules or they would not pass the test.

 

So, you think you got bad calls on 2 occasions this year? Wow.

 

As a comparison, how many errors have you made this year? Have you missed any signals from your coach? How many times has your coach had someone stealing and they got thrown out? How many runners has your coach gotten thrown out at 3rd or the plate this year? You see, screw ups are all relative.

[1moreDBmom]

QUOTE(catsbackr @ Apr 23 2007 - 11:12 AM) 826443318[/snapback]Every umpire has to take an online test through the TSSAA website, they do have a clear interpretation of the rules or they would not pass the test.

 

So, you think you got bad calls on 2 occasions this year? Wow.

 

As a comparison, how many errors have you made this year? Have you missed any signals from your coach? How many times has your coach had someone stealing and they got thrown out? How many runners has your coach gotten thrown out at 3rd or the plate this year? You see, screw ups are all relative.

 

 

 

Open book tests are easy to pass 'backr.

 

Like I said in an earlier post...this is not about good umpires...this thread is busting the bad apples out there. Thankfully they are not many...but they do exist. scroll up about a page and see the umpire who admits being told by his field umpire (who seems to be a more "experienced" umpire then him) to adjust his strike zone to help a struggling pitcher because the score was getting out of hand. We have a way to take care of scores that get out of hand...we call it the slaughter rule. Umpires who adjust their strike zone to "help" a struggling pitcher are helping one person and frustrating 9 batters from the other team... he is taking it into his own hands to help the pitcher's stats and kill 9 batters averages during the process.

 

Paid too much? That is very subjective. If you make 6 digit figures each year then 50 bucks a game (25 per hour) is not too much, however if you work for 10 dollars and hour (or less) per hour, then 25 bucks per hour is a lot of money for someone who is struggling with judgement calls. (Their original investment of some 400 + bucks for a chest protector, shin guards, steel-toed plate shoes, and that pretty blue uniform never factors in because that gets covered during the learning year while we are still forgiving you for your questionable calls. By the time you're 'seasoned we expect you to call the game and not assist struggling teams.)

 

BTW: Some of us even consider that close calls that could go either way are not bad calls.... but a moving strike zone, or a thimble strike zone...those are not forgivable no matter what your reason is... again we are asking for some kind of consistancy behind that plate when you judge balls and strikes...

 

Slow down and see the entire pitch.... I've got video from behind the umpire's shoulder that shows them bringing up the strike signal while the ball is 2 or 3 feet in front of the plate still..... decide after it strikes the catchers mitt blue and you might actually call the breaking stuff correct....anybody with a hotdog in one hand and a mountain dew in the other can call a fast ball....if your worth that cute little uniform you will get the breaking stuff right too!

[Spark Plug]

QUOTE(catsbackr @ Apr 23 2007 - 09:12 AM) 826443318[/snapback]"Umpires cost to much.....".

 

How much do you think an umpire makes?

 

Every umpire has to take an online test through the TSSAA website, they do have a clear interpretation of the rules or they would not pass the test.

 

So, you think you got bad calls on 2 occasions this year? Wow.

 

As a comparison, how many errors have you made this year? Have you missed any signals from your coach? How many times has your coach had someone stealing and they got thrown out? How many runners has your coach gotten thrown out at 3rd or the plate this year? You see, screw ups are all relative.

 

 

I know for a fact how much umpires make and it is way too much. It is also going up next year and the year after. An online test, thats funny, its easy to pass a test when you have the book to use.

 

As a comparison? How can you compare teenage boys with men in there 20's, 30's, 40's etc? Also, teenage boys do not get paid to play. Umpires get paid to do a job, and in most cases, umpires do a great job. However, there are exceptions.

 

About screw-ups. Your right they are relative, but that doesn't make them ok. Missing an occasional ball or strike is one thing, but a pivotal play in the game is another.

 

I believe that "many" umps have to much pride. To say a coach is showing you up if they show you the rule book is stupid. If your wrong, then your wrong. You should swallow your pride and admit it.

 

I understand that umps are human and make mistakes. Players and coaches make mistakes, but let the actions of the players and coaches dictate the game. A call by an umpire SHOULD NOT DICATATE THE GAME!!! I'm not talking about balls and strikes. I'm talking about rule calls.

 

Calls should not be determined by the umpires attitude towards a certain coach or player. A strike zone should not widen because a batter gives the umpire a funny look. The strike zone should not shrink when a pitcher shows emotion that he did not get a call. Furthermore, a play at the bag or at the plate should not be determined by whether or not the umpire likes the coaches or players. To me, its a power trip when they do that. Its a "because I said so" mentality that gives some umpires a bad rep.

 

Don't you tell me this doesn't happen because if you do your full of crap. I know umpires do things like this. I've heard them admit it.

[TIMEWARP]

QUOTE(Spark Plug @ Apr 23 2007 - 10:54 AM) 826443412[/snapback]I know for a fact how much umpires make and it is way too much. It is also going up next year and the year after. An online test, thats funny, its easy to pass a test when you have the book to use.

 

As a comparison? How can you compare teenage boys with men in there 20's, 30's, 40's etc? Also, teenage boys do not get paid to play. Umpires get paid to do a job, and in most cases, umpires do a great job. However, there are exceptions.

 

About screw-ups. Your right they are relative, but that doesn't make them ok. Missing an occasional ball or strike is one thing, but a pivotal play in the game is another.

 

I believe that "many" umps have to much pride. To say a coach is showing you up if they show you the rule book is stupid. If your wrong, then your wrong. You should swallow your pride and admit it.

 

I understand that umps are human and make mistakes. Players and coaches make mistakes, but let the actions of the players and coaches dictate the game. A call by an umpire SHOULD NOT DICATATE THE GAME!!! I'm not talking about balls and strikes. I'm talking about rule calls.

 

Calls should not be determined by the umpires attitude towards a certain coach or player. A strike zone should not widen because a batter gives the umpire a funny look. The strike zone should not shrink when a pitcher shows emotion that he did not get a call. Furthermore, a play at the bag or at the plate should not be determined by whether or not the umpire likes the coaches or players. To me, its a power trip when they do that. Its a "because I said so" mentality that gives some umpires a bad rep.

 

Don't you tell me this doesn't happen because if you do your full of crap. I know umpires do things like this. I've heard them admit it.

 

Just for your information, the fee does go up next year but there is not an increase until 2010. As far as emotions effecting

the strike zone, it sure does. And you are putting all umpires into the "THEM" catagory.

[catsbackr]

QUOTE(Spark Plug @ Apr 23 2007 - 10:54 AM) 826443412[/snapback]I know for a fact how much umpires make and it is way too much. It is also going up next year and the year after. An online test, thats funny, its easy to pass a test when you have the book to use.

 

As a comparison? How can you compare teenage boys with men in there 20's, 30's, 40's etc? Also, teenage boys do not get paid to play. Umpires get paid to do a job, and in most cases, umpires do a great job. However, there are exceptions.

 

About screw-ups. Your right they are relative, but that doesn't make them ok. Missing an occasional ball or strike is one thing, but a pivotal play in the game is another.

 

I believe that "many" umps have to much pride. To say a coach is showing you up if they show you the rule book is stupid. If your wrong, then your wrong. You should swallow your pride and admit it.

 

I understand that umps are human and make mistakes. Players and coaches make mistakes, but let the actions of the players and coaches dictate the game. A call by an umpire SHOULD NOT DICATATE THE GAME!!! I'm not talking about balls and strikes. I'm talking about rule calls.

 

Calls should not be determined by the umpires attitude towards a certain coach or player. A strike zone should not widen because a batter gives the umpire a funny look. The strike zone should not shrink when a pitcher shows emotion that he did not get a call. Furthermore, a play at the bag or at the plate should not be determined by whether or not the umpire likes the coaches or players. To me, its a power trip when they do that. Its a "because I said so" mentality that gives some umpires a bad rep.

 

Don't you tell me this doesn't happen because if you do your full of crap. I know umpires do things like this. I've heard them admit it.

 

Well, I'll tell you what. The day is going to come in the not too distant future where all, and I mean all, varsity games will be called by one umpire. You don't believe it? Think again. Umpire associations all across the country are reporting no growth in their associations or shrinking numbers. The way you guys make it sound, we are making, as spark plug has said, way too much money, perform a task, as dbmom has insinuated, isn't very hard to be good at and really should be greatful for the chance just to umpire.

 

Please.

 

I work a 9-10 hour day, before I go to umpire. I umpire because I love the HS game, nothing else.

 

Choosing to umpire every year becomes a much harder decision due to what we have seen on this topic. Parents that think they know better than anyone, especially the umpire. Parents that believe their kids can do no wrong on the field. Parents that exhibit terrible behaivor when caught in a situation where their team loses. Parents, kids or ex-players that expect an umpire to be PERFECT on every play when it is highly doubtful that they were ever close to perfect in their athletic endeavors.

 

Maybe we should just let the kids and coaches call the games. I kind of look forward to the day when mommy and daddy show up for the big district game and only have 1 umpire. It'll make it alot easier on them, they will only have 1 to yell at.

 

But, I have digressed. I have to go. I have a varsity game tonight and 3 more this week. Gosh, I can't wait!

[1moreDBmom]

QUOTE(catsbackr @ Apr 23 2007 - 02:11 PM) 826443493[/snapback]The way you guys make it sound, we are making, as spark plug has said, way too much money, perform a task, as dbmom has insinuated, isn't very hard to be good at and really should be greatful for the chance just to umpire.

 

 

 

I think your saying that I 'insinuated' that umpiring is an easy job...your sentence is more of a raging, ranting, foaming at the mouth statement and I cannot clearly make out your thoughts in such a jumbled sentence.... but best I can figure you put words in my mouth that I did not say.

 

I actually said this and was not insinuating anything other then exactly what I said.... anybody can call a fastball pitch with a hotdog in one hand and a mountain dew in the other....I could have even said with one eye shut.......

 

Now what I did not say was that umpiring was easy.... which is what you said I 'insinuated and I did not appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth that were not there simply because you got mad that someone would actually critize your brotherhood of umpires.

 

Now for future reference, if you put words in my mouth be prepared to defend those comments. I do not mind being quoted. I do not mind someone telling me that in their oppinion they think I am wrong.

 

But, I do not appreciate when someone twists my words to make it look like I said something entirely different then what I actually said.

 

This topic apparently hit close to home for you. Which makes us wonder how you control your temper when your calling a game and someone dissagrees with you? Or a parent tells you to kick your seeing eyedog cause he's lying on that call.

 

I am an accountant. There are some bad accountants out there. That does not make ME a bad accountant unless of course I am guilty myself of those accusations. I do not come unglued just because some accountants make bad decisions and reflect poorly on my line of work. I admit that some accountants embezzle money, and fix their companies books to hide their embezzlement for years. Again their actions DO NOT reflect on me or make me a bad accountant.

 

This is true in any profession ( I used accounting because it is my line of work) We all know of bad teachers, bad doctors, etc...

 

This board is about baseball so you can expect people to start a thread about bad umpires, bad coaches, best fields, most home runs, etc...

 

Consider this:

 

My son told me the other day that I had my "books" wrong. His coach has him with a double in one particular game that I only gave him a single. He said I was wrong and his coach was right. I said not so quick there, you hit the ball over the infield and in front of the left fielder who fielded it cleanly and threw it home to prevent a runner from scoring. You advanced to second on the throw that came in to the catcher. If he had thrown the ball to the "cut-off" man then you would have stayed on first and the runner would have had the decision to either try to score or stay put on third. I think on this one that I am right and your coach is wrong. You should have only had a single and a pat on the back for heads up baserunning! He says to me " well the coaches books are official so I got credit with a double and thats the one that counts. I agreed with him on this one. No one will ever remember at the end of the year how he got that double. I have an earlier game in the year where I gave him an infield single... the 3rd baseman came up with the ball and threw it to first where the first baseman caught the ball but my son was safe ...it was not a sacrifice bunt...he topped a curve ball and beat it out. His coach called it an error on the fielder. I determined that it would have taken extraordenary effort to make that play at first... if my son had been the fielder in that instance I would not have given him an error on the play!

 

My point is that everybody makes decisions in every aspect of baseball. But just because you have the final say does not make the decision right.

 

In my oppinion a umpire who decides ( or is told by the other umpire" to change his strike zone in order to help a struggling pitcher is wrong because he is now hurting 9 batters with this new and improved strike zone. Some have said it is the umpires job to "manage" the game. I still dissagree with that statement as well, because we have a rule in place to handle blow out games... the 10 run rule. Unless you can present information that will change my mind on this " helping a struggling pitcher" you will simply have to dissagree with me..because I think it is wrong to do anything less then call the game fairly.

[wad]

Once again Umpires are the only people who should start off perfect and get better as the game goes on. How about your job. Do you get paid? have you ever made a mistake? did 8 people who know nothing about your job try to tell you how to do it? Close your pie hole!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davidlimbaugh]

My point is that everybody makes decisions in every aspect of baseball. But just because you have the final say does not make the decision right.

 

 

Baseball is like the Bible. No two people treat either of them the exact same way. That is what makes them both so great

 

As far as umpires go. Think it is rough in some of the games with them? Well, not having them at all is a far more troubling thought.....

 

And some umpires, like some sophomore left handers, may get better with age