Officiating

[OldSchoolCharger]

I could understand your point of view til you made the comment that officiating went down hill by going to three officials. There are just too many dead areas of coverage in two man officiating. I agree with talking the players thru situations but the T$$AA strongly discourages any verbal actions with the players other than the sound of the whistle.

 

If you have 2 officials who hustle and want to do the job right, they are in position and their are no dead areas, it worked for a lot of years!! I know the comeback, the game is faster! I watch a lot of games and until recently, only district games around here were required three officials, all others were two. I swear that the two officials on the floor did a better job!! I know a number of retired officials and the vast majority of these folks agree with this opinion. The key observation is that with three, they get lazy.

[OldSchoolCharger]

Don't take this in any way than just putting it out there. In a girls game, you can get away with a two man system. It's just as fast as a guys game. But the thing is the game on both sides is getting faster, we aren't talking about up and down the floor, we are talking about all the quickness in the half court sets. if you pretty much have one guy who has to cover from inside the three to half the lane and the other guy covering from the other half the lane to the rest of the court that is a lot of responsibility for one guy. I was in a jamboree and there were three of us and it happend so quick that we missed a punch thrown.

SO lets think about this, two guys do have to work harder because they have to work a lot more and the perception is that they are doing a better job. But in honesty, you don't catch everything that is going on. It is perceived that a three man is lazy but you are adding a third set of eyes to watch ten players in a tight space where you can catch a player who is holding a jersey or an elbow that one of the two us to miss. I'm sure i'm opening a can of worms on this.....

 

No can of worms, this post was started to get some discussion going on officiating. It is obvious you are an official and you may be one of the good ones and I do know some good officials. I was hoping some of you folks would respond and join the discussion. I am not bashing officials, we need you, it just the inconsistancies are really getting out of hand. As stated in an earlier post, one official calling 3/4 of all the fouls in one game is pretty sad. Actually the next game Central played was one of the better games I have seen called, then they go to McMinn this past monday and it was another very poor game (brawl) that occured. Again, someone, needs to step up with leadership and teach the the new, poor, officials so they can get better. Some don't understand, the games they are not noticed are the best games they call. Thanks for your input.

[5-Sport Dad]

Sorry, I didn't know this thread already existed...

 

More proof of T$$AA incompetentcy and apathy:

Tonight I witnessed what I believe was the absolute worst officiated game I've ever seen. An ex-Metro councilman, an ex-Metro school coach and some woman that obviously didn't pay attention too well at 'referee school' called the game. Collectively they called personal fouls at a 10-to-1 ratio against the Lady Cats in the first half. Despite that travesty, GB led by 10...a miracle in itself. After halftime, they were still grossly biased toward the ladies in green. However, I believe they eventually felt sorry for our girls and finally started calling the obvious fouls on Jo Byrns' players. But, it was too late. The damage had been done to our coaches perparation and to our players.

 

I only say this because a lot of people don't believe officials can affect the outcome of a game. Well, tonight blew that theory up! They were, without question, the worst officiating crew I've ever witnessed. If you were there and didn't feel sorry for the players that were absolutely abused, then you don't have a heart...and don't know the game of basketball (hint: it's not football; that's a whole different male sport that involves tackling, blocking and various other human contact that was, sadly, allowed to happen in this game). It wasn't fair to the players and it wasn't fair to the fans who paid hard-earned money to see an impartially called game. This is not about who won or lost. The fact that they had an affect on the outcome is the issue. Jo Byrns had 8 on the floor and we had 5. Simple, but true. And sad!

 

In a perfect world, the school officials should file a report and send a game DVD to the T$$AA (it would be a 'case study' of how not to officiate). But, we all know that would be futile because of the arrogance demonstrated by the officials (i.e., their 'agents'). What a shame this is allowed to happen...even one time. It gives a 'black eye' to high school sports.

 

 

 

Yea I heard about that crew. They take bribes and I also heard that they hate to color green and I also heard they were all three teachers at Jo Byrns and had kids playing in the game. I think they each had money invested in with the mob so they needed to quickly get it back from betting on that game. Well I'm assuming they got their money back .

 

Mr./Ms. Ref,

I 'heard' that most of y'all only take those jobs because you need to get some exercise (Whew! I know that's right!!) and that it's easy money (i.e., no accountability and you can do a poor job...but still get paid...oh, yeah in addition to the bribe money /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ). When the T$$AA says it's having trouble recruiting new refs, it leaves out that most important word 'competent.' They need new 'competent' refs, but it's obvious that they're just gettin' what they're askin' for: Warm bodies. And, again, that's sad because the players deserve better.

[goldmom]

I am usually the first person to grip on a ref, but i went to a middle school game last night for the first time in four years and all i could think durning this game was thank god for our high school refs. Any time u feel u got the shaft u need to go to one off these games it will make u feel better.

[5-Sport Dad]

You should be in shape before the season starts. Getting in shape during the season is laughable.

 

Obviously, you can't speak for all refs ("Referee's never go into game looking to always call fouls on certain kids; Side Note- just because the fouls are lopsided on the scoreboard doesn't mean anything; I'm sure that most of the referee's are competent; Referee's do not care who wins, straight up, so you seriously need to sit down and thing about it. No referee i have ever met said call the game in red's favor even if it means calling ten-one on the fouls"), but you sound very reasonable and confident in your own ability. As far as both teams not being 'highly skilled,' you are correct. Basketball is not a strength at either school. Never has been. But, they aren't the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel, either. Regardless, the players (on both teams) deserve a competent officiating crew just as much as the highly-skilled/top teams. They practice and work hard to get better. Refs should do the same. Are there good ones? Absolutely! The problem is there aren't enough of 'you,' if, indeed, you are competent.

 

Consistency: "You as a player, fan , and coach have to realize that, well tonight i can't do tha and have to play according to those standards from that official." Is this how y'all really think? If so, interesting. WE have to adjust??? I'm not naive and I know it's true, but it seems backwards, don't it?

 

Hope to see you around. Maybe you can 'make up' for last night's fiasco.

 

Goldmom,

I went to a middle school game the same night as our other HS game this week and, you're right, they were pretty competent and consistent, which is all the players/coaches/and-yes-even-fans can ask for. It does happen, I'm not saying it doesn't. But, shouldn't it?

[OldSchoolCharger]

Denton, do you guys discuss the game during half time? for instance, "whew, that was a bunch of fouls" or if it is getting too physical, do you plan to adjust the game? Another question, why does TSSAA discourage communication. If I was a coach, I would appreciate being told "we are going to tone it down some, or tell your kids to watch the hand checks" etc. You don't have to be "chummy" on the floor but it doesn't hurt to communicate. Just curriosity questions, trying to learn what the good officials do. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[OldSchoolCharger]

I'm by no means a good official. So I hope you weren't implying that. Well if I told you what we discussed at half-time I would have to kill you. LOL. - sorry for the text message.

No we don't say- man that was too many fouls. The only thing we really talk about is "hey just watch 34 in the post he's close on illegal screens or 24a and 30b are not playing nice with each other let's try to clean up that match up. And sometimes we talk about so plays that happend that me may have screwed up.. Yes I said it we may have screwed up.

And I'm not for certain on why they don't want us talking to players. But I also don't think it's TSSAA, I think it's NFHS. My only comment is I think that since they are high school age players that they think they will learn best by just calling a foul and if you call a foul then they have nothing to say to somebody "hey coach this is what the referee said......" Then you get into a debate with the players and it doesn't look good. But if you watch closely you can see the referee's say quick phrases like hands or get out or whatever. Film can back up foul calls but cannot back up exchanged words. I guess. But I was talking to a player one time like get the hands out or something and then the coach yelled at me for talking to his players. Thats a simple solution, fouls on his players everytime. He didn't want me to keep his players out of foul trouble by talking so his starting five is on the bench. To each his own style of coaching.

Alot of people were getting upset about hand checks, but that was a point of emphasis a few years ago to clean it up. And yes it's called more outside the lane because that is where is happens the most. Two points of contact is a foul everytime. And you would also be surprised what one hand can do to lead an attacker somewhere.

 

 

 

Thanks for your input, hopefully more folks will read this and understand your job is not easy. I wish some of the other officials had your head on their shoulders during games, maybe games would be better. Very well stated by your side of the business! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[5-Sport Dad]

You're right you should be in shape before the season starts, but just like players you can't be in game shape unless your referee in an actual game a few times. I can go out and run all day long, but that will help me get up and down the floor a few times, but to be in game shape it a mental thing. just like the players- you can do sprint after sprint in practice but in a game when the pressure is turned way up it's a whole lot different than practice.

And you are right about each crew being competent. However, You can't get three top rated referees on a game because each is needed everywhere else. So put one on another game and give him two guys that are new or kinda been in a few years and let them see more plays and work to get better.

Like you said and I know, I can't speak for every referee.... However, think about it you can sit there and yell call after call after call about a block, for instance, therefore, you know the referee is probably going to call a block why do you keep arguing about it. Kinda make sense? I only know I use that philosophy when I played and it helped understand what I can and cannot do in a game. Its the same if you have a good official and he makes a call.. You as a player realize that you can't do that and you adjust to his call. IF i'm wrong about that please let me know?

I know you , as a player, coach, fan, hope and believe that the official referee's the games in accordance with the NFHS standards and interpretations. I know you may think it at times, but they didn't read a different rule book but maybe they have been taught by a different person so their inter. is different than yours and mine. How is that backwards?

Also, you may think I'm competent but I'm as dumb as they come, I'm a soccer guy. I have no clue about basketball. So I dont' think you want me to come up your way.

 

OK, I'll go 'backwards:'

A soccer guy? Lawwwd!! You should've confessed that at the outset. What in the heck are you doin' on this thread, then? Offering expertise on a game you know nothing about? Dialogue is good and I forgive you, but...come on!!

 

You're wrong! It's backwards when a player has to adjust to your calls. If you've called 3 blocks in a row, does that mean you're gonna call a block every time? I hope not. You should always be prepared to call what happened...each time. Not what's 'trending.' If it's a block, call it. If it's a charge, call it. Last night, the ex-Metro councilman called a 'reach' when it was, in fact, a block. How in tha world??? The girl's arms were in and her feet were moving. It was a foul on her - so, he got one right... /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> - but was he watchin' or just guessin'? (I know you can't answer that, but, obviously, neither could he justify it, if he'd been asked)

 

Lastly, basketball is a fast-moving sport, kinda like soccer (just wish our girls were in 'soccer shape,' LOL!). I'm kinda mystified that T$$AA even allows some to wear that badge on their shirt. It's almost as bad as our educational system: Pass 'em no matter if they are competent in math, can write or can even speak correctly (interpretation > It's a joke! Get it? But, it ain't funny, is it?)

 

One more thing...

OldSchoolCharger, good post(s). I agree with you. Heck, maybe you should become a ref and help 'em pick it up a notch. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Happy Thanksgiving! and God bless!

[5-Sport Dad]

well I appreciate it. Its good to see that somebody realizes that there is more to basketball than just calling obvious fouls. I can probably grab anyone out of the stands and give them a whistle and I gaurentee that they will get atleast 80% of the calls right. Seriously. Its just learning how and when to call things. Well yea maybe in the fourth quarter the girl has carried the ball a little to much but if you haven't called it in the first three why start now. It is about consistency.

Sometimes you look at a play and just because it looks bad doesn't mean that you should blow the whistle. There are a lot of key factors that come into play before you can blow the whistle.

The biggest thing in high school athletics period GAME MANAGEMENT. as is all sports. How are you going to repsond to being yelled at from a coach who is two feet away and is on his last strike? Or if the kid doesn't have a chance to block the shot and fouls the other player on the opposite hand that he shoots the ball? You have a team who is up 30 points and is drawing up dunk plays to humiliate the other team? Grant it, I watch about as much as a referee, and I see stuff from the stand that I know I wouldn't be able to see on the floor. However, this game is not for the parents- in chicago parents aren't even allowed in the gym to watch- it's for the players to play and enjoy and work to become better examples and help keep the game at what the spirit intends it to be

 

Whoa! Now that is crazy. Dang Yankees!! /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

[jimbo44]

I would rather see the refs just let the players play and call a foul every now and then rather than see 40-50 fouls called...

 

So, no blood, no foul, is the way you like to see games played?

[jimbo44]

Officals are different as all of us. Up here in Reg.4 most of our officials are known. They call games very simalar. There some officials that are so well known that everyone in the Gym knows how the game is going to be called when they walk in. Every coach knows and most kids figure it out by mid season, how tight or not, that particular game is going to be called.

Year after year these guys do a great job.

Consistancy is what is asked for. In all sports ,for that matter.

[5-Sport Dad]

Officals are different as all of us. Up here in Reg.4 most of our officials are known. They call games very simalar. There some officials that are so well known that everyone in the Gym knows how the game is going to be called when they walk in. Every coach knows and most kids figure it out by mid season, how tight or not, that particular game is going to be called.

Year after year these guys do a great job.

Consistency is what is asked for...in all sports, for that matter.

 

Amen, Jimbo! Y'all play a whole different brand of girls basketball up your way. Higher level for sure. For all of us here in 8AA, we need to schedule more of y'all in 7AA. Initially, we'd get our butts beat, but, by golly, we'll either get better or learn that losin' ain't fun and do somethin' about it. Either way, it'll help us, huh?

 

Now, in v'ball and s'ball, that's a whole different story.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!