Metal Cleats in High School

[JC#1fan]

Add another one:

A player in the Chilton County tournament had emergency surgery yesterday after her metal cleats dug into the bag and stuck there. The news is that it tore her foot (tendons) away from her ankle and broke the ankle. She was sliding into third base, the cleat had to be removed from the bag before they could move her. I know this player has played ball a long time and knows how to slide. Just wondering are the injuries due in part to girls not knowing how to slide with the metal on? If so shouldn't those in the know be teaching the players to slide properly BEFORE they start playing in the metal cleats. Just seems like a lot of good players are getting hurt. This girl will probably have problems the rest of her life now, what a shame. Not that accidents will not happen but you know an ounce of prevention..... With all the injuries taking place, teaching proper sliding technique with the new cleats should be mandatory in my opinion.

 

As quoted by catsbacker there is only one way to slide "If you are taking your foot to the bag", one option is to always slide past the bag and grab the bag with the hand. Unfortunately, most high school coaches don't have the knowledge to teach athletes to steal a base never the less how slide correctly because they are really teachers not coaches. With that said, catsbacker, vols, have you noticed the increase in severity of the injuries noted in this forum. A slip in the outfield and you turn your ankle (out about 3 to 4 days) As noted here these injuries are broken bones, torn ACLs, and completely seperated foot tissues. These are potenitial career ending and life changing injuries and you dare to poke fun at them. Earlier you made comments that these "people" have never played or had boys that played. I am a male and I have played this game (from baseball to men's softball) since I was 6 years old. I also have coached competitive fastpitch softball (from league to school ball to college exposure) for 15 years. If it is all about winning and better traction then by all means wear the metal spikes they do perform better. (That is if any of your athletes make it through the season without injury) If it is about the safety of persons that aren't even adults yet then rubber is the choice. As with most high school teams the athletes are required to wear the same cleats as the rest of their team, in our case the coach decided on metal cleats, so the decision is not the athletes to make if they want to play. As everyone else knows high school ball is dead, if your kid wants to play at the next level she had better get good grades and play travel ball, its the only place she will get seen.

[ksgovols]

Everyone is blowing the whole cleat thing out of proportion. Let the kids play and let the kids choose if they want them or not. Most seem to like them, especially if they have been taught the correct way to slide. It's a waste of time to argue about what they wear on their feet. Accidents and injuries are just a part of the game. So let's just play ball. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

 

I agree. We can always throw out the worst case scenarios in any thing. Aluminum bats cause more injuries than wooden ones, there are fewer injuries during day games than under the lights, if there were double bags, the collisions at first base would decrease dramatically, etc, etc, etc......

 

To wear the big girl cleats you've got to teach them proper fundamentals that apparently they haven't been taught before. Blocking bags with your shin will get you 27 stitches. Pop up slides into the base will roll or break your ankle. Heck, send them over to the baseball diamond and let them learn by osmosis. My opinion is similar to catbackr's. There's a problem because of a lack of sound fundamentals in the girls game.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you folks though. It doesn't appear the girls or their coaches are ready for big girl softball.

[JC#1fan]

I agree. We can always throw out the worst case scenarios in any thing. Aluminum bats cause more injuries than wooden ones, there are fewer injuries during day games than under the lights, if there were double bags, the collisions at first base would decrease dramatically, etc, etc, etc......

 

To wear the big girl cleats you've got to teach them proper fundamentals that apparently they haven't been taught before. Blocking bags with your shin will get you 27 stitches. Pop up slides into the base will roll or break your ankle. Heck, send them over to the baseball diamond and let them learn by osmosis. My opinion is similar to catbackr's. There's a problem because of a lack of sound fundamentals in the girls game.

I'm inclined to agree with you folks though. It doesn't appear the girls or their coaches are ready for big girl softball.

 

Who cares about the baseball diamond on this forum? That's what the BASEBALL link is for on the boards section. It is not the same game except that they have four bases, in fact baseball is played at half the speed of the girls game (no time to bobble one here). When one of your precious little boys creep half way up the line they are still 45 feet away not thirty 30 like in the girls game and don't lay down a load of crap about the ball being hit harder either, watch a couple of competitive games and you will know what I mean. Shots to third and the mound require much faster reaction than the boys game. There is little difference from 40' to 43', but a world of it from 60'. I know I've pitched from both. Why do you think the "matchups" between pro softball players and pro baseball players have made so much noise over the past few years (i.e. Jeter vs. Finch) Jeter never touched a ball off her. This is a little off subject, but it addresses the fact that every point you and catsbacker make somehow ends up referring to baseball. It is evident that you two are more concerned about the game than the girls, by the way these are still "little" girls otherwise they would be called adults (which can be considered "big" girls.

[stlbrd]

I am trying to figure out how you teach a girl to slide with metal spikes. How is it any different than sliding with plastic cleats? IT'S NOT!

 

It is really starting to get funny on here! If you don't know how to slide by the time you get to high school maybe you should try out for the tumbling team.

[ksgovols]

Who cares about the baseball diamond on this forum? That's what the BASEBALL link is for on the boards section. It is not the same game except that they have four bases, in fact baseball is played at half the speed of the girls game (no time to bobble one here). When one of your precious little boys creep half way up the line they are still 45 feet away not thirty 30 like in the girls game and don't lay down a load of crap about the ball being hit harder either, watch a couple of competitive games and you will know what I mean. Shots to third and the mound require much faster reaction than the boys game. There is little difference from 40' to 43', but a world of it from 60'. I know I've pitched from both. Why do you think the "matchups" between pro softball players and pro baseball players have made so much noise over the past few years (i.e. Jeter vs. Finch) Jeter never touched a ball off her. This is a little off subject, but it addresses the fact that every point you and catsbacker make somehow ends up referring to baseball. It is evident that you two are more concerned about the game than the girls, by the way these are still "little" girls otherwise they would be called adults (which can be considered "big" girls.

 

 

I've umpired both and as an engineer I can do the math. A softball at 60 mph from 40 ft. is equivalent to a 90 mph fastball from 60.5 ft. One's using a bigger ball with shorter fences and shorter bases. The other uses a smaller ball and has longer fences and longer bases. Both put a premium on putting the ball in play and advancing from one base to the next. It's a simple game, "you throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball". You've said yourself that the metal cleats perform better. Why wouldn't you give the girls the best footwear that's out there and teach them how to use it properly. The 'big girl cleats' came from the link about the college coaches. It was tongue in cheek.

 

I believe that you sir, are the one that's saying that the women can't do what the men can do. I could teach my 8 year old how to play in metal spikes. Somebody would have to prove to me that women wearing metal spikes are incapable of doing the same things that men in metal spikes have been doing for 100 years. You are not giving these girls enough credit for what they CAN do. Instead, you blame their failings on what they aren't TAUGHT to do or are simply afraid of change. I played slow pitch softball on 60 ft bases with laser beams hit at me on the infield in metal spikes. I see no difference offensively or defensively in any of the diamond based games where foot wear is concerned. None. I've said that pitching could be a different animal. If I had a daughter that pitched, I'd have to give serious consideration as to how that would affect her form and her performance and she would have to prove to me in a practice environment over a period of time that she could plant and throw with the metal cleats.

 

I said earlier, in 4 or 5 years after everyone is wearing metal cleats at the high school level, this will be a non issue. The middle school girls will probably be wearing them by then.

[muffin]

Who cares about the baseball diamond on this forum? That's what the BASEBALL link is for on the boards section. It is not the same game except that they have four bases, in fact baseball is played at half the speed of the girls game (no time to bobble one here). When one of your precious little boys creep half way up the line they are still 45 feet away not thirty 30 like in the girls game and don't lay down a load of crap about the ball being hit harder either, watch a couple of competitive games and you will know what I mean. Shots to third and the mound require much faster reaction than the boys game. There is little difference from 40' to 43', but a world of it from 60'. I know I've pitched from both. Why do you think the "matchups" between pro softball players and pro baseball players have made so much noise over the past few years (i.e. Jeter vs. Finch) Jeter never touched a ball off her. This is a little off subject, but it addresses the fact that every point you and catsbacker make somehow ends up referring to baseball. It is evident that you two are more concerned about the game than the girls, by the way these are still "little" girls otherwise they would be called adults (which can be considered "big" girls.

 

This has to be the stupidest post that has ever been made.

[catsbackr]

JC#1fan,

 

If you going to quote me...

As quoted by catsbacker there is only one way to slide "If you are taking your foot to the bag", one option is to always slide past the bag and grab the bag with the hand.

 

...quote me correctly. I said this...

You slide the same way in metal as you do in molded cleats. You don't slide on the cleats you slide on your butt, thigh and leg.

 

...not what you quoted above. And as far as sliding past the bag and grabbing it, that's just stupid.

It is not the same game except that they have four bases, in fact baseball is played at half the speed of the girls game

 

Your joking right? Softball is so slow, I mean ridiculously slow. I know it's 2 completely different games, but come on, softball puts me to sleep.

Why do you think the "matchups" between pro softball players and pro baseball players have made so much noise over the past few years (i.e. Jeter vs. Finch) Jeter never touched a ball off her.

 

You are correct on this one. However, I wonder why they never move the softball players to the baseball diamond?

This is a little off subject, but it addresses the fact that every point you and catsbacker make somehow ends up referring to baseball.

 

Nope, it has nothing to do with baseball. All I was talking about was wearing metal cleats. Period.

 

Some of you act like the metal cleats the girls have started wearing is something that just came from outer space or they are something that was just invented. I just think that the vast majority of these injuries could have and can be prevented by having coaches that now how to teach fundamentals like sliding and tagging sliding runners.

 

I never meant for this to be any kind of slam against softball. All I was talking about was the metal cleats.

[ksgovols]

Exactly catsbackr. Our point of reference is baseball because that's the only sport wearing the metal cleats in high school and you see zero discussions about the downfall of the sport due to metal cleats anywhere on the baseball forum. Besides pitching and hitting mechanics, the players run the same on defense and offense I'm assuming. Other than the structural bone differences between a boy and a girl, I'm guessing that the mechanics of fielding, sliding, tagging and running the bases are pretty much universal and that having bases 30 feet closer doesn't affect things like traction and how a player would run. I guess what I'm really trying to understand, is that if metal cleats are so dangerous, why have the guys been wearing them from 13 years on up?

 

And why would a player slide beyond a bag before reaching it safely? Doesn't that make the bag further away and take longer to reach it safely?

[zeroedge]

Exactly catsbackr. Our point of reference is baseball because that's the only sport wearing the metal cleats in high school and you see zero discussions about the downfall of the sport due to metal cleats anywhere on the baseball forum. Besides pitching and hitting mechanics, the players run the same on defense and offense I'm assuming. Other than the structural bone differences between a boy and a girl, I'm guessing that the mechanics of fielding, sliding, tagging and running the bases are pretty much universal and that having bases 30 feet closer doesn't affect things like traction and how a player would run. I guess what I'm really trying to understand, is that if metal cleats are so dangerous, why have the guys been wearing them from 13 years on up?

 

And why would a player slide beyond a bag before reaching it safely? Doesn't that make the bag further away and take longer to reach it safely?

 

 

 

Metal cleats are not that dangerous, they are just more dangerous than plastic. The injuries that happen are more severe. The girls on the high school level play in plastic and have for years. Their travel coaches have adapted the game to plastic. They taught them sliding in plastic, fielding, tagging ect....I hate to say this and this is not a knock on high school coaches but I'll just bet over 90% of the girls coaches have never had a pair of steel cleats on their feet in their life so leaving the transition up to them is disastrous. As most parents have never worn metal either it isn't a matter they " they can teach them" Now , if the girls were playing in metal during travel, and they were getting ANY sort of training there concerning metal, I might take another side. ( Also you have to think especially at the lower levels of the high school softball game tons of these girls don't even play any sort of summer ball leaving any and all instruction up to a high school coach. )

It is not that girls are not able to learn, it is that they cant learn WHAT THEY ARE NOT BEING TAUGHT! Furthermore they cant be expected to flip flop back and forth between plastic and metal.

[stlbrd]

Metal cleats are not that dangerous, they are just more dangerous than plastic. The injuries that happen are more severe. The girls on the high school level play in plastic and have for years. Their travel coaches have adapted the game to plastic. They taught them sliding in plastic, fielding, tagging ect....I hate to say this and this is not a knock on high school coaches but I'll just bet over 90% of the girls coaches have never had a pair of steel cleats on their feet in their life so leaving the transition up to them is disastrous. As most parents have never worn metal either it isn't a matter they " they can teach them" Now , if the girls were playing in metal during travel, and they were getting ANY sort of training there concerning metal, I might take another side. ( Also you have to think especially at the lower levels of the high school softball game tons of these girls don't even play any sort of summer ball leaving any and all instruction up to a high school coach. )

It is not that girls are not able to learn, it is that they cant learn WHAT THEY ARE NOT BEING TAUGHT! Furthermore they cant be expected to flip flop back and forth between plastic and metal.

 

WHAT are they not being taught?!? Sliding is sliding, whether you are wearing steel, plastic or hiking boots! This is really starting to get hilarious!

 

Now they need to be taught how to "field" differently in metal cleats...................PLEASE...........explain that one to me.

[ksgovols]

I see an opportunity to make some money here. Some softball coach with 'metal cleat experience' can hold Metal Cleat Camps across the state this summer and make a killing. Shoe company representatives can come and give presentations on why girls should wear their cleats and offer free consultation on which shoe style to choose.

[JC#1fan]

Exactly catsbackr. Our point of reference is baseball because that's the only sport wearing the metal cleats in high school and you see zero discussions about the downfall of the sport due to metal cleats anywhere on the baseball forum. Besides pitching and hitting mechanics, the players run the same on defense and offense I'm assuming. Other than the structural bone differences between a boy and a girl, I'm guessing that the mechanics of fielding, sliding, tagging and running the bases are pretty much universal and that having bases 30 feet closer doesn't affect things like traction and how a player would run. I guess what I'm really trying to understand, is that if metal cleats are so dangerous, why have the guys been wearing them from 13 years on up?

 

And why would a player slide beyond a bag before reaching it safely? Doesn't that make the bag further away and take longer to reach it safely?

 

TO avoid the tag. it happens all the time .Why do you seem so suprised