Combination Plan

[Indian]

"Overall, I'd vote yes on that one. it keeps everyone together and that is the main thing."

 

Why is the avoidance of a total split that important to you? With there being only around 5, maybe less, public 1A schools with legit state hopes each year, wouldn't the 1A privates be better off in a class with Goodpasture, BGA and possibly Lipscomb? And again, just because they'd be in Division II with McCallie, MBA and Brentwood Academy doesn't mean they'd be in the same classification. (I can't say that enough for some).

[silverpie]

Remember, whatever is decided will affect all sports, not just football. With a total split, you would still force Chattanooga Christian to go through Baylor and McCallie in everything else (even adding in the non-football privates, two classes would be a pipe dream).

 

Another flaw you may not have noticed--single-sex schools would be at a substantial advantage if every financial-aid school is allowed the same number of financial-aid students. Realistically, a percentage system is the only plan that has a chance of passing.

[Indian]

Why would a two class Division in sports other than football be unattainable? A East Large basketball region might include McCallie/GPS, Baylor, Webb, Knox Catholic and Notre Dame, and a East Small Division might include Boyd-Buchanan, Temple, Chattanooga Christian, Grace and CAK. (CAK would have 4 trips to Chattanooga but a 2 hour trip on Saturday afternoon/evening wouldn't kill a program). I'm sure you could set up regions in Nashville/midstate and west Tennessee/Memphis.

[just1np]

I love numbers, but this is going insane. Remember, this is something that would have to be reworked every 5 years or so.

ELA, don't take offense. I like most everything except the classification system. I don't think the majority of private schools belong in 1A and in some cases 2A, but a multiplier system does not make sense to me. There are simply too many factors in the equation. The TSSAA would have to go back calculas class to figure some of this out.

I say put everyone back together, whether it be five or six classes, and simply put all private schools in 3A through 5A(or 6A). Those schools (Lighthouse Christian for example) who truly believe their situation does not warrant a 3A classification can petition for a lower class.

I think going by the numbers is too black and white. Every school's situation is different, and it should be considered.

[panfan]

INDIAN

 

A total split is bad for the game, the kids and everyone involved. This past year there were only two privates with a shot -- USJ and Ezell. And, that is about right on a year and and year out basis. Two privates and five or so publics with a real shot. No problem there.

 

A split ruins the importance and meaning of a championship. You rob teams of the opportunity to play the best teams. McCallie may have been the best team in the state this past year. Instead of being able to proove it, they have to settle for a meaningless title over 6 teams. Riverdale may have been the best team in the state. instead of prooving it, they have to listen to McCallie people say "you were the ones who kicked us out. Who's afraid of who." The game is victimized by a split to. You are legislating victory. Should major league baseball seperate into two leagues with one for small market teams and one for large market? Obviously not, they should figure out a way to make things fair. NFL went with a cap. TSSAA can find a way. A split hurts everybody. And really, look at it, split backers have no arguement. They are just jelous or still upset over a game they lost last year (or 10 years ago when they were in school). There is no reason to split except to quiet sore losers. A split is the worst thing a governing body can do. Look at Texas. I have a friend who went to Baylor. Private school championships there are a joke. No one cares. If a split happened here it would be just the opposite. Everyone would know that publics chose to run and hide instead of be a man and face the foe. Who would give a care about a title won in a league founded on cowardness? A split is a terrible idea!

[panfan]

Just 1,

 

good luck with any idea that treats schools differently b/c they are terrible. If you let a private school go lower b/c they are terrible, you'd have to let a public. What constitues total terribleness. 2 wins? 3? 0? You'd have to set up rules for that. Then you have teams with either a lose on purpose of face moving up a division.

 

Black and white and by the numbers is the way to go. The truly horrible privates are all so small they'd stay in 1A. Saying, just move them up to 3A doesn't work. You have to have a little backing or plan.

[Indian]

PANFAN (all caps)

First of all, there were not five top of the line, Class 1A public state contenders last year. There was one, and no offense to Pujo but it was Collinwood. I said 5 as far as teams that most would mention before a typical season as a possible contender based on results the past few years, which would likely include South Pittsburg, Collinwood, Bruceton, Cloudland, maybe 1 or 2 others. There are that many private schools in 1A that you could also include in such a group. Next, if you want to call Riverdale pushing for a split fleeing or cowardly, go for it. The worst thing that could happen in Tennessee high school sports is for 350 student Brentwood Academy to continue winning 5A titles. You and I both know that. So if a division killer is taken out of 5A and placed with similar schools in a Division II, what is the problem with the similar schools in 1A and 2A playing in their own postseason, especially when the 1A publics are even less of a match, on the average, against 1A privates than the large publics were against BA? And MBA was starting its surge about this time too, and you could see some signs McCallie was going to get strong quick, too so I have little doubt you'd have those three advancing deep every year in 5A. When Trousdale County, the best Class A/1A program ever in the state over time, decides to jump to 3A instead of possibly playing Lipscomb and Goodpasture, doesn't that tell you there is a problem. They're not ducking competition, as teams like Austin-East and Portand will always be there. But they don't want to play private schools in the postseason. Is Trousdale a coward? You and some others may be tired of numbers and say anyone looking for trends needs to look back longer, and that the 5 state title run by privates this school year won't happen again. The point is some of the private schools that have come on in recent years, not just state title winners but deep playoff finishers such as Boyd-Buchanan in football were not even worth mentioning during the years some demand to be included in such trends. Such schools have put the money and effort into hiring and retaining strong coaches, improving facilites and publicity and other factors most of the public schools can't match. And yes, I think it will continue and there will be more and more dominating seasons by private schools. Maybe there won't be 5/5 again next year but I won't be surprised. As far as 3/5 or 4/5 you can almost take it the bank.

[panfan]

indian (all lower case)

 

first of all, all private schools don't cheat like the evil empire ba. so there is a lot wrong with robbing those schools of the opportunity to play other good schools. second, last year was one year specifically. i was talking about in general as you point out later in your post.

and yes, riverdale won a title based on being cowards. that is why i respect them less than mccallie.

 

and by the way, trousdale ducked Lipscomb and Goodpature as cowards second. their first motive was to make a political statement. i lost a lot of respect for satterfield when he did that. and by the way, that is a public school that was the best 1a program ever. satter only ducked out when the privates started catching up to him.

 

you are right that collinwood was better than cloudland, but then again, so were probably three or four schools in the lower bracket.

 

you are right ba should be dealt with, but as long as darth vador is at the healm and lawsuits allow them to cheat like crazy. they will continue to be the total terds they always have been. but, you can't allow darth to ruin the whole state of TN football. he likes the attention and loves taking the responsibility for ruining the state. don't let that one guy slant your entire view against all privates. i've met him, and trust me, he is not worth ruining tssaa football over.

[Edited by panfan on 7/2/02 11:47P]

[VolunteerGeneral]

IndiaN (two caps)

 

If playing privates is so bad, and all these 1A coaches and 2A coaches don`t want to play them, why don`t they all just tell the TSSAA that they want to move to 3A? They all have the right to do so and it would certainly press the issue.

[Indian]

Maybe they feel (rightfully so) they'd be outmanned by Austin-East, Portland, White House and the like? Just a guess. Nobody, private or public, should be forced to move up, and it shouldn't be the only option for "equal" competition. A split wouldn't move privates up, just out, since they'd be playing schools of approximate size with a few slightly larger such as Goodpasture.

[VolunteerGeneral]

InDiaN (three caps)

 

My point was that several people on here say that change is coming. If things are so intense and they are organized, why not just go ahead and declare for 3A and press the issue. Why don`t they follow Trousdale`s lead? If they got 40 or so teams to do that then the TSSAA would have to make something different.

 

There should be no split though. Privates play by the rules. Pooh on any public school that doesn`t like it. If they should be playing up, then let`s get a system going where they do. The "merit system" allows for this.

 

Let`s take USJ for example. They have never won a 1A championship, but they have been very successful. Maybe they could compete at the 2A or 3A level, but surely you`d agree that they can`t compete at the 5A level. Regardless if you think private schools have an advantage, there is somewhere in the 5 class system they belong. To just say get them out all together is spineless. Devise a system that places teams in proper classes according to ability. There are too many people here that are just simply prejudice against private schools. It is so obvious in their posts. It is obvious as well that they are sadly misinformed about private schools. Football is football, let`s just tee it up and play and quit bickering.

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 7/3/02 9:36P]

[ELA]

Many states are going to the multiplier system, so I think it is the shape of things to come! I told you guys some of the school numbers would be off, I typed the second post in about ten minutes and simply ran a quick spread sheet for the privates. For those who think some of the private schools who offer financial aid would be treated unfair, I remind you they will pick all ten of their games without real regard for their overall classification. The multiplier numbers could be raised or lowered, but at least it provides a basis for preventing a total split. This would take most all of the better private schools up one to three classes and create a really great super class (AAAAAA) for real school competition! For whomever said there were two many classes in this plan, may I remind you this is two less than we currently have and it is a fair division of talent. I also think any school who thinks they are placed too high could petition to be dropped one class. It would be up to the TSSAA to honor their request or not! Volunteer.... the reference to the B class is from the older plan!

 

Overall, I think you guys like the plan, but everyone understands the numbers of any final plan will be tweaked! Thanks for your responses, maybe I can work on the numbers again later!