Wing-T in 5A football

[learningthegame]

I have heard several hundred people say that no 5A football team has ever won the state title running the Wing-T. In fact, they often mention the struggles Riverdale has had in the playoffs since Coach Aydelott, an obviously good coach, installed it at Riverdale.

 

I have recenlty grown fond of the Wing-T and am wondering if the problem with 5A Wing-T teams is the Wing itself or could it be contributed to other things.

 

I really would like to hear some peoples opinions on this who know what they are talking about.

[sled78]

It is so easy to stop. You only have to defend a handful of plays. A well trained defense with a good gameplan, will be standing there waiting to tackle the ballcarrier. It is a fairly easy offense to read due to the fact the guards pull so much.

 

I would rather face the wing t than the spread, or any other offense that is completely unpredictable.

[mediamogul]

It is so easy to stop. You only have to defend a handful of plays. A well trained defense with a good gameplan, will be standing there waiting to tackle the ballcarrier. It is a fairly easy offense to read due to the fact the guards pull so much. I would rather face the wing t than the spread, or any other offense that is completely unpredictable.

Run correctly it is as effective as any other offense. Any system offense, like the wing t, has tendancies, but also has counters to those tendancies. Handfull of plays? Hardly.........you dont know much about the system is thats your argument. Cleveland in the mid 90s won several state chamionships running the wing, they could have beaten any team in the state on any level. They were 4a then if memory serves me correctly. Spread is flavor of the day, and like the wing, will come an go over time.............wishbone will be back as will most other successful offenses

It is so easy to stop. You only have to defend a handful of plays. A well trained defense with a good gameplan, will be standing there waiting to tackle the ballcarrier. It is a fairly easy offense to read due to the fact the guards pull so much. I would rather face the wing t than the spread, or any other offense that is completely unpredictable.

Run correctly it is as effective as any other offense. Any system offense, like the wing t, has tendancies, but also has counters to those tendancies. Handfull of plays? Hardly.........you dont know much about the system is thats your argument. Cleveland in the mid 90s won several state chamionships running the wing, they could have beaten any team in the state on any level. They were 4a then if memory serves me correctly. Spread is flavor of the day, and like the wing, will come an go over time.............wishbone will be back as will most other successful offenses. Not to mention that the most of the spread running games are wing t based. Formations and plays dont win........Jimmys and Joes........well coached do

[big D]

Run correctly it is as effective as any other offense. Any system offense, like the wing t, has tendancies, but also has counters to those tendancies. Handfull of plays? Hardly.........you dont know much about the system is thats your argument. Cleveland in the mid 90s won several state chamionships running the wing, they could have beaten any team in the state on any level. They were 4a then if memory serves me correctly. Spread is flavor of the day, and like the wing, will come an go over time.............wishbone will be back as will most other successful offensesRun correctly it is as effective as any other offense. Any system offense, like the wing t, has tendancies, but also has counters to those tendancies. Handfull of plays? Hardly.........you dont know much about the system is thats your argument. Cleveland in the mid 90s won several state chamionships running the wing, they could have beaten any team in the state on any level. They were 4a then if memory serves me correctly. Spread is flavor of the day, and like the wing, will come an go over time.............wishbone will be back as will most other successful offenses. Not to mention that the most of the spread running games are wing t based. Formations and plays dont win........Jimmys and Joes........well coached do

 

spread running games are more single wing based... not wing t.

[Solomon]

correctly it is as effective as any other offense. Any system offense, like the wing t, has tendancies, but also has counters to those tendancies. Handfull of plays? Hardly.........you dont know much about the system is thats your argument. Cleveland in the mid 90s won several state chamionships running the wing, they could have beaten any team in the state on any level. They were 4a then if memory serves me correctly. Spread is flavor of the day, and like the wing, will come an go over time.............wishbone will be back as will most other successful offenses. Not to mention that the most of the spread running games are wing t based. Formations and plays dont win........Jimmys and Joes........well coached do

 

 

Yes, but that was also 12 years ago when Cleveland won their last title. I don't know if a 4A team could win it today running the offense. Most top-level 4A and 5A teams have the speed, strength and/or are well coached enough as to where it can negate the base plays from the wing-T.

[formerCoach81]

Here's a nugget to chew on.

 

"An American Football Monthly survey of 2006 state champions revealed 16.8% of the respondents use the Wing-T as their base offense."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/footb...-football_N.htm

 

You can key on the guards all you want but there are a bunch of "sucker" plays in the system for that. This is a favorable system for teams with little talent because of all of the favorable angles but when you have some talent it can be as tough to stop as anything. It's been around so long because it is effective. You are starting to see more double wing stuff now because you can incorporate plays and principles from the spread and wing T in to one offense.

[StudentoftheGame]

The idea that the Wing-T offense is not effective because no 4A or 5A team has won the state championship running the Wing-T is ridiculous and flawed logic in my opinion. First off it takes more than an offensive system in order to win a state championship, there is no almightly offense that if adapted will lead a team to a state championship, the offense is just one part. Now there are only a certain number of teams running the Wing-T offense in this state period, of those teams how many are capable of winning a state championship no matter what offense they chose to run? The pool of teams that even have the resources capable to win the state championship are small to begin with, even small in that group are teams running the Wing-T. So the chances of a team winning the state championship that runs the Wing-T is small no matter what because of how few teams run the Wing-T to begin with. Plus when you look outside of this state the no championships argument goes out the table, Coach Jim Dorsey at McEachern High School is one the most successful coaches in the the state of GA, Coach Jeff Herron at Camden County High School also in GA has destroyed records running the Wing-T offense, Coach Gordon Wood at formerly at Helix High school in CA ran the Wing-t, both Reggie Bush(yes the New Orleans Saints Reggie Bush) and Alex Smith(yes the SF 49ers Alex Smith) played in a Wing-T offense. Bellevue High school in Washington which is the school that ended De La Salle's 151 game winning streak, guess what offense they run? Butch Goncharoff the Coach that installed the offense at Bellevue is 81-7, and has won 5 of 6 state championships.

 

Second its my belief that there is no modern offense that precludes a team from winning, there are offenses that better suit teams, but to take the next step in saying that you can`t win if you run a certain offense is false. No you probably should`t be running a spread offense if you don`t have QB capable of making plays, and WR's that can catch, and you probably shouldn`t be running the I-Formation with tiny linemen and a RB that should be playing WR. If you have the talent and your players fit the scheme, the style of offense is not going to preclude you from winning. Now people often like to say that teams run the Wing-T to hide their weaknesses in areas, while that may be true for some teams that is not the only way to look at it. You can run the Wing-T to maximize your players strenghts, if you have multiple good RB's, athletic linemen, and a smart QB you can run through teams at will.

 

I think one the major things people don`t realize is that there are different versions of the Wing-T floating around. People see an offense with wing backs packed in close to the line, 1 WR, where the play always goes where the guards go and think that is what the Wing-T offense is all about. That style of Wing-T is one of a few different styles, Coach Aydelott(formerly of Hillsboro, now at Riverdale) runs one style, Coach Scott Meadows(formerly of Alcoa, Jefferson County, now at William Blount) ran another before switching offenses this past year. Seeing how so few teams run the Wing-T and I currently live in east tennessee I`ve only see Coach Aydelott's style from afar. I`ve seen quite a bit of Coach Meadows style of offense(what people like to call the modified Wing-T) when he was at Alcoa and Jefferson County. Any assumptions that may exist about the Wing-T are debunked with the modified Wing-T, if you exclusively follow the guards you are likely to run yourself away from the ball, you are as likely to see multiple WR formations as you are 1 WR sets, high powered/high scoring offenses can be obtained running the wing-t(one of major knocks I`ve heard is that the wing-t is a ball control low scoring offense that is doomed if it doesn`t play with the lead). What that modified Wing-T Meadows has beaten Maryville, Dobyns-Bennett, Morristown West, Oak Ridge, Ooltewah, all very successful 4A and 5A teams.

 

The bottom line in all of this is that a system can only take a team so far, there are a lot of other things involved in the success or failure of a team.

[TDCman]

I think you can win with the wingT...and you can win big. However, winning with a ball control offense requires a much stronger emphasis on defense, ball control, and special teams. You have to be able to establish and maintain field position. So far, very poor special teams play and a struggling defense has been what has held Riverdale back. The offense has been pretty darn good.

 

The only complaint I would have with the Riverdale wingT is that they don't execute in their passing game. From the stands, I would guess that the passing game does not get practiced with nearly the same dilligence and emphasis that the running game does. Everyone just looks like they are doing something that's very unfamiliar. Riverdale seems to have enough diversity built in their wingT but even late in the season struggle running other than the base plays. Late in the year the defenses are getting better so you need to have a few more wrinkles to show...and you need to execute those plays.

 

Heck, I think there should only be two legal offenses--wingT and the wishbone.

[compusatman]

Why do you single out 5A ball? Interesting thread. It could go in many different directions. I think to answer your question would be to say that not many coaches want to be known for running an oldschool offense even though most offenses are oldschool. I feel everyone expects 5A ball to be as close to college as it can get. Which means running pro-style offenses. In reality, East TN runs multiple scheme offenses and the rest of the state plays power football. I feel the Wing-T is a great offense to keep prepared for those special circumstances. Especially if the team posesses power backs. But the Spread option is where it's at right now. That is if you have a QB. It's funny but once a program gets dug-in to a specific offense then it seems to filter down to the elementary levels and the positions are learned from the beginning with the emphisis on the scheme that will be the bread and butter at the HS level. Therefore the coach doesn't need to shift gears very much. With the spread this is not true. It is a very difficult offense to learn. It requires skill at many positions and taxes RB's to the bitter end. Once learned and understood it has many facets and attack modes. And is extremely unpredictable. With the WingT the timing between Linemen/QB/RB is everything. With the spread the timing is WR/QB. Most RB's would prefer the WingT over the Spread however Spread RB's have the freedom to expore and the responsibility to produce because their number of carries is half of what it is in an under center offense. But their yard per carry average is much higher. I think the WingT is much simpler to teach and prepare for especially since much of the preparation is done at lower grade levels. The spread is dependent on the QB and requires him to have multiple abilities and be an athlete. Both are exciting to watch...kind of like Boxing and Taekwondo. Me, I like the Wishbone.

[Lost Old Dad]

Biggest problem I have seen so far with R'dales Wing T is the predictability of what we are going to do. When you run 95%+ of the time it is easy to stop. When R'dale did utilize their TE and WRs to catch a PASS it opened up the middle so the run was easier to be successful. WC has a modified Wing T that mixes up plays well and they are not that predictable. What they lacked was strong consistant line play to open holes and defend the QB.

 

The Wing T can be successful, but it must have some sort of passing game to keep defenses honest and from packing the box. This combined with running at the ends where you use your speed vs an opponents lack of speed can be deadly.

[sled78]

For those of you who are scared of the wing t, I will put on a clinic cheap. In my career, I can proudly say that I have never lost to a wing t team ever. This includes as a player and a coach. Does Bellevue Wash have a great team? Sure they do, but if you have equal talent, its no problem to stop.

[learningthegame]

I appreciate those of you who have responded and while I think I could have forseen some of the answers I do believe everyone is sincerely stating their point, and doing it quite well I might add.

 

There is one certain point that seems to stand out to me more than the others. I believe two or three of you made it, the neccessity of the passing game in the Wing-T. I believe a Riverdale fan said it best that Riverdale while having some defensive struggles late, as well as some special teams issues throughout the year, was probably weakened most by their inability to throw the ball with accuracy and consistancy. The fan mentioned that he believed that the repititions necessary in developing a stellar passing game must have been neglected. This is puzzling to me because I think it is fair to say that Riverdale is staffed by expert coaches who are both capable and passionate, but this point about the passing game seems elementary. In my recent research concerning Wing-T football I have heard one phrase more than any other, "you have to be able to pass the ball make the Wing-T run." I have heard Tubby Raymond state this in his DVD/Book series, I have heard Denny Creehan (probably the best coach in football) say the same, Bruce Cobleigh a master of the Wing-T, and when I coached defense on a Roger Holmes team I saw his offense throw alot, a whole lot.

 

Did I perhaps misunderstand Tubby Raymond, and those other great coaches. Is the Wing-T's success solely based on the effeciency of the passing game.