Looking at classification

[Indian]

Yeah, I just read the article. The team here is definitely on the 2A/3A bubble, so if this goes through you could see them playing David Brainerd and Silverdale (1A), or Red Bank and Chattanooga Central (4A). Local rivalry games would be in jeopardy if there were eight or nine teams in the larger region. Polk, Meigs and Tellico might move back down to 2A, given the chance they'd be playing Red Bank, etc, in the larger region.

 

To me, it seems like the TSSAA is picking the non-region games for its members-unless they're planning to count the games outside the postseason classification as part of playoff determination. With the 1A-2A region, Tyner would be possibly be playing David Brainerd and Grace, that's no worse than the Brainerd, Central and Hixson possibility which the Grace director didn't like.

 

The biggest problem I have with this is that it doesn't focus on the total picture, there are more sports than football even though naturally it's given the most importance. Brainerd's basketball travel was mentioned (what about those teams' travel to Brainerd?) but I don't see it fixing that.

 

I wish the writer had pointed out the reasons rural teams in the rural-urban plan were divided, and urban teams weren't, is because of number of schools. Someone not understanding the situation might think the urban teams, particularly the small urban teams (private schools mostly) were being given the shaft on purpose.

 

If Polk, Meigs and Tellico moved back to 2A, they're actual 2A enrollment for those who don't know, you'd have these teams in 1A and 2A:

 

(1A teams) David Brainerd, Copper Basin, Lookout Valley, South Pittsburg, Silverdale Academy, Chattanooga Grace, Whitwell, Signal Mountain (they're projected to start in 1A)

 

(2A teams) Marion County, Tellico Plains, Bledsoe Co., Meigs County, Tyner, Sequatchie (still a question on 2A/3A), Boyd-Buchanan, Chattanooga Christian, Polk County, Sweetwater (likely in if it goes Meigs, Copper Basin, etc in a Cleveland-Athens area group)

 

That's 18 teams counting Sequatchie and new programs at Signal Mountain and Chattanooga Christian, looks as if it would likely be a pair of nine team regions. A big question would be how do you determine if Copper Basin, a 1A team with four probable 2A opponents, and possibly more (Tyner, Boyd go that direction for basketball) is more deserving of another 1A team that might only play one or two 2A teams because of their locations? This could be applied to regions around the state, it would be hard to have an equal amount of 1A and 2A, 3A and 4A teams in each group.

 

Starting in the east, with these teams, I'd say one region or district would include Polk, Copper Basin, Tellico Plains, Sweetwater, Meigs, Tyner, Silverdale, Chattanooga Grace and Boyd (east side of the county). That would be two 1A opponents for Grace, Silverdale and Copper Basin.

 

Compare that to Lookout Valley, which would possibly play Whitwell, South Pittsburg, David Brainerd and Signal Mountain.

[rlh]

I think if they do plan B, it should be as per the proposed document and not with the creation of a 6a. That would minimize problems. I personally thought 5 classes were to many. The plan B as in the proposal would be a compromise.

 

TSSAA has been in the experimental mode for 15 years. They had every thing balanced by the late '80s/early '90s and then went with 5 classes and messed things up.

[QSouth89]

Class 2A

 

Oneida 414

Trousdale 414

Fayette Academy 419 *

Huntingdon 419

Cascade 422 *

Cosby 430

Houston County 433

North Greene 433

East Robertson 436

Dresden 441

Richland 441 *

Adamsville 442 *

Humboldt 445

Wartburg 450

Riverside 451

Jackson Christian 452 *

Westside 456 *

Rockwood 461

Hampton 473

Alcoa 481

Treadwell 484 *

Westwood 486

Marion County 502

Oakhaven 498 *

Ezell Harding 502 *

Franklin Road Academy 502 *

Oliver Springs 508

Upperman 512

Jackson County 513

Donelson Christian 515 *

Tellico Plains 523

Westmoreland 533

Bledsoe Co. 545

Meigs County 548

South Greene 549

Tyner 552

Loretto 557

CPA 558 *

Lewis County 572

Memphis South Side 580

Sequatchie 597

Polk Co. 602

Gatlinburg-Pittman 605

West Greene 608

Happy Valley 616

Boyd-Buchanan 625 *

Milan 630

Camden 633

Cumberland Gap 633

Fayette-Ware 633

Chuckey-Doak 642

Goodpasture 648 *

Westview 651

Sweetwater 652

Smith Co. 652

Waverly 655

Carver 659

Stewart Co.664

York 668

CAK 671 *

Frayser 672

 

By these numbers, CAK would be on the verge of going to 3A, Trousdale going to 2A. If their enrollments changed or others did they could stay, or move up, there's no telling yet.

 

CAK and Catholic are not that big those numbers are based on multiplier numbers. CAK has about 300 kids and Catholic has 530.

[cherokean]

I think if they do plan B, it should be as per the proposed document and not with the creation of a 6a. That would minimize problems. I personally thought 5 classes were to many. The plan B as in the proposal would be a compromise.

 

TSSAA has been in the experimental mode for 15 years. They had every thing balanced by the late '80s/early '90s and then went with 5 classes and messed things up.

 

 

How does 5 classes mess things up?

Here's what think bout it:

Well, to start with did TSSAA not learn from their mess they created this past fall in 2A. Going from 8 regions to 9 regions and having to use WC's to makeup the rest of the playoff bracket. All that caused was a handful or so first round games w/ foes from the same region playing one another, an also caused possible teams from not making the playoffs that would've w/ old format. And they thought that was such a great idea that they may use the same format in a possible new classification system. Why go back to a three classification system for FB and then use the five classes for playoff purposes. In using this system where Class A staying the same as is: Class AA made-up of 2A & 3A, Class AAA made-up of 4A & 5A, and do away with 8 regions an go to 16 districts. Then, when playoffs start classes 2A-5A will wind-up using those darn WC's to fill up the remainder of the brackets with more than likely the same problem that happened in the first round of playoffs and possible teams not making playoffs in 2A this past fall. Why not stay with something that has done fine since 1993, or even go to a 6 classification format for FB. I myself have played around with the possibility with current enrollment provided on TSSAA.org. In doing so, it removed the 2A problem an virtually eliminated the 20 or so regions w/ 8+ teams in them. In turn making each classification average around 50 teams with a range of 5-7 teams per region and giving room for newcomers to TSSAA. This in turn would give all schools a better chance of making the playoffs with the addition of 32 new spots and with the plus of having fewer teams in a region. As for the other sports, excluding FB would remain in three classifications. In doing so, this would combine A & 2A into Class A, 3A & 4A into Class AA and 5A & 6A into Class AAA respectfully. In order to setup districts take for example, FB region 1 in both A & 2A reorder and reassign to makeup districts 1 & 2. Or make A, 3A, 5A regions the odd # districts an 2A, 4A, 6A regions the even # districts, but that would depend on the # of teams in each of the regions. And do that with all the regions to makeup the districts in Class A-AAA.

Then, I can see a bit of why TSSAA wants to do what they are thinking bout doing; the big thing to save the schools on all expenses across the board. Schools are still going to do some traveling that??™s understandable, but the way I see it is that there will still be those schools that have to travel a ways in order to get schools in the same or other classifications to play them in order to make a full complete schedule.

Overall, the only thing I can possible agree on with TSSAA is setting up the classification first, then determine the break for D1 & D2 and allow all schools the option of going to D2. At the present time it's the complete opposite format.

[rlh]

How does 5 classes mess things up?

 

 

I wasn't referring to 5 classifications in plan "B" messing things up but the original move to 1A to 5A beginning in 1993 due to it doing away with districts and creating unbalanced regions and eliminating many natural rivalries around the state. I see plan "B" as a good compromise as long as they don't go adding a 6a.

[cherokean]

I wasn't referring to 5 classifications in plan "B" messing things up but the original move to 1A to 5A beginning in 1993 due to it doing away with districts and creating unbalanced regions and eliminating many natural rivalries around the state. I see plan "B" as a good compromise as long as they don't go adding a 6a.

 

 

Whats wrong with six classes? Before TSSAA moved to the five classes in 1993, we were in the stone age of classification cause other states had 5+ classes for years before we decided to follow suit an added more classes.

 

But here is what I did (like it or not), everything is based off the TSSAA enrollment numbers from Jan. 2006 I did my best to align the regions. Got to remember that there will be schools that request to play up or change regions. And there is one school on the list that is closed after 2007-2008 year (Rutlegde) b/c of a new school. Also, there will be new schools to join for the new classification period of 2009-12.:

 

Class 1A 0-380

Class 2A 381-570

Class 3A 571-820

Class 4A 821-1075

Class 5A 1076-1390

Class 6A 1391-above

 

CLASS 1A

 

Region 1

Cloudland

Grace Chr. Acad.

Hancock Co.

Jellico

Unaka

 

Region 2

Coalfield

Greenback

Harriman

Midway

Oakdale

Sunbright

 

Region 3

Copper Basin

Grace Bapt. Acad.

Lookout Valley

Silverdale Acad.

South Pittsburg

Temple

Whitwell

 

Region 4

Clay Co.

Gordonsville

Monterey

Mt. Juliet Chr. Acad.

Red Boiling Springs

Watertown

 

Region 5

Community

Eagleville

Jo Byrns

McEwen

Middle TN Chr.

Nashville Chr.

 

Region 6

Clarksville Acad.

Collinwood

Cornersville

Moore Co.

Perry Co.

White House-Heritage

 

Region 7

Columbia Acad.

Gleason

Hollow Rock-Bruceton Cent.

Huntland

Wayne Co.

Zion Chr. Acad.

 

Region 8

Greenfield

Lake Co.

Manassas

Middleton

South Fulton

West Carroll

 

CLASS 2A

 

Region 1

Chucky-Doak

Cosby

Hampton

North Greene

South Greene

 

Region 2

Alcoa

Oliver Springs

Oneida

Rockwood

Wartburg Cent.

 

Region 3

Bledsoe Co.

Marion Co.

Meigs Co.

Polk Co.

Tellico Plains

Tyner Acad.

 

Region 4

East Robertson

Friendship Chr.

Jackson Co.

Trousdale Co.

Upperman

Westmoreland

 

Region 5

Cascade

Christ Presb. Acad.

Donelson Chr. Acad.

Ezell-Harding

Forrest

Franklin Road Acad.

 

Region 6

Adamsville

Houston Co.

Humboldt

Lewis Co.

Loretto

Mt. Pleasnt

Richland

 

Region 7

Decatur Co.-Riverside

Dresden

Huntingdon

Jackson Chr.

McKenzie

Peabody

Union City

 

Region 8

Fayette Acad.

Halls

Memphis South Side

Oakhaven

Treadwell

Trinity Chr. Acad.

Westwood

 

CLASS 3A

 

Region 1

Claiborne Co.

Cumberland Gap

Elizabethton

Happy Valley

Johnson Co.

Sullivan North

Unicoi Co.

West Greene

 

Region 2

Austin-East

Christian Acad. Of Knox.

Gatlinburg-Pittman

Pigeon Forge

Rutledge*

Scott Co.

 

Region 3

Boyd Buchanan

Howard

Loudon

Kingston

McMinn Central

Sequatchie Co.

Sweetwater

 

Region 4

Cannon Co.

DeKalb Co.

Grundy Co.

Macon Co.

Pearl Cohn

Smith Co.

 

Region 5

Alvin C. York Inst.

Cheatham Co.

Goodpasture

Marshall Co.

Page

 

Region 6

Chester Co.

Fairview

Harpeth

Jackson South Side

McNairy Central

 

Region 7

B.T. Washington

Camden Central

Covington

Crockett Co.

Stewart Co.

Waverly

 

Region 8

Frayser

George Wash. Carver

Gibson Co.

Milan

Uni. School of Jackson

Westview

 

CLASS 4A

 

Region 1

Greeneville

Sullivan Central

Sullivan East

Sullivan South

Union Co.

 

 

 

Region 2

Anderson Co.

Knox. Carter

Knox. Catholic

Gibbs

Knox. Fulton

Livington Acad.

 

Region 3

Chattanooga Central

East Ridge

Notre Dame

Seguoyah

Stone Memorial

 

Region 4

Brainerd

Greenbrier

Hixson

Red Bank

Station Camp

Sycamore

White House

 

Region 5

Creek Wood

David Lipscomb

Giles Co.

Maplewood

Montgomery Central

Stratford

Whites Creek

 

Region 6

Bolivar Central

Fayette-Ware

Lexington

Liberty Tech. Magnet

Portland

Spring Hill

Springfield

 

Region 7

Central-Merry

Dyer Co.

Dyersburg

Haywood

Jackson North Side

Obion Co.

Ripley

 

Region 8

Hillcrest

Kingsbury

Memphis East

Memphis Northside

Mitchell

Sheffield

 

CLASS 5A

 

Region 1

Cherokee

Cocke Co.

Daniel Boone

David Crockett

Tennessee

Volunteer

 

Region 2

Knox. Central

Maryville

Seymour

South Doyle

Knox. West

 

Region 3

Campbell Co.

Clinton

Knox. Halls

Powell

Morristown-East

Morristown-West

 

Region 4

Cleveland

Lenior City

McMinn Co.

Walker Valley

White Co.

 

Region 5

Glencliff

Hendersonville

Hillsboro

Hillwood

Lawrence Co.

Shelbyville

Tullahoma

 

Region 6

Beech

Centennial

Gallatin

Kenwood

Northwest

Ravenwood

Rossview

 

Region 7

Brentwood

Brighton

Clarksville

Craigmont

Hardin Co.

Henry Co.

Munford

 

Region 8

Fairley

Hamilton

Kirby

Melrose

Memphis Central

Releigh-Egypt

Trezerant

 

CLASS 6A

 

Region 1

Bearden

Dobyns-Bennett

Jefferson Co.

Karns

Science Hill

Sevier Co.

 

Region 2

Bradley Central

Farragut

Heritage

Oak Ridge

Ooltewah

Soddy Daisy

William Blount

 

Region 3

Coffee Co.

Cookeville

Cumberland Co.

Franklin

LaVergne

Lincoln Co.

Warren Co.

 

Region 4

Blackman

Oakland

Rhea Co.

Riverdale

Siegel

Smyrna

 

Region 5

Antioch

Hunters Lane

John Overton

Lebanon

McGavock

Wilson Central

 

Region 6

Columbia Central

Dickson Co.

Franklin Co.

Independence

Mt. Juliet

Northeast

 

Region 7

Arlington

Bartlett

Bolton

Cordova

Millington Central

Overton

Ridgeway

 

Region 8

Collierville

Germantown

Houston

Whitehaven

White Station

Wooddale

[rlh]

Whats wrong with six classes? Before TSSAA moved to the five classes in 1993, we were in the stone age of classification cause other states had 5+ classes for years before we decided to follow suit an added more classes.

 

. . .

 

 

The three classifications were balanced the last 12 or so years in regards to the numbers of schools in the state with football teams. It wasn't stone age. The first states with 5 or more classification were states like California, Texas, and Florida. California has over 45 million people which is 10 times the population of TN. There are about 330 compared to 1033 in California and they just went from a Div I, Div II and Div III classification in 2007 to a Open Div, Div I, Div II, Div III and Small School Division in 2008. Some of those Div 1 schools have 4-5000 students.

 

Open Division: The top team from the north part of the California will play the top team

from the south, regardless of school enrollment.

 

NORTH SOUTH

Division I 1,701+ 2,400+

Division II 1,001-1,700 1,101-2,399

Division III 1,000 and below 1,100 and below

Small School Division 400 and below 500 and below

 

 

Texas has 1A - 5A Classes.

 

5A has 32 districts with 8 or 9 schools in each with 4 regions each with 8 districts. That is about 250 schools in 5A alone.

 

Texas only has 27 Districts in 1A and ~120 shcools. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

Lets talk about Florida:

 

Class 6A

83 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 2584-4742

 

Class 5A

81 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 2055-2583

 

Class 4A

81 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 1708-2054

 

Class 3A

83 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 1067-1707

 

Class 2A

39 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 617-1066

 

Class 2B

37 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 411-616

 

Class 1A

42 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 233-410

 

Class 1B

41 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 50-232

 

 

I don't get why the split the Class 1 and 2 into a an b but the point is I don't see Tennessee's A, AA, AAA systems as dark ages based on the school size and number of schools in relation to the population and size of the state.

[SmashMouth]

The three classifications were balanced the last 12 or so years in regards to the numbers of schools in the state with football teams. It wasn't stone age. The first states with 5 or more classification were states like California, Texas, and Florida. California has over 45 million people which is 10 times the population of TN. There are about 330 compared to 1033 in California and they just went from a Div I, Div II and Div III classification in 2007 to a Open Div, Div I, Div II, Div III and Small School Division in 2008.

 

Open Division: The top team from the north part of the California will play the top team

from the south, regardless of school enrollment.

 

NORTH SOUTH

Division I 1,701+ 2,400+

Division II 1,001-1,700 1,101-2,399

Division III 1,000 and below 1,100 and below

Small School Division 400 and below 500 and below

 

 

 

 

Great post. Thanks for doing all the footwork. Interesting stats in Appendix II. Of all the proposed, I like plan B. Solves a lot of problems without watering down the football championships.

[coach1076]

Thanks for the info. We need to go with plan B. I never thought it was stone age.

[greenbacksports]

yeah plan b would be okay if everyone had a mathmatics degree to figure out who they were playing in the first round when they use wildcards. i like the cherokeans plan better.it definately needs to be looked into more.

 

Thanks for the info. We need to go with plan B. I never thought it was stone age.

[cherokean]

The three classifications were balanced the last 12 or so years in regards to the numbers of schools in the state with football teams. It wasn't stone age. The first states with 5 or more classification were states like California, Texas, and Florida. California has over 45 million people which is 10 times the population of TN. There are about 330 compared to 1033 in California and they just went from a Div I, Div II and Div III classification in 2007 to a Open Div, Div I, Div II, Div III and Small School Division in 2008. Some of those Div 1 schools have 4-5000 students.

 

Open Division: The top team from the north part of the California will play the top team

from the south, regardless of school enrollment.

 

NORTH SOUTH

Division I 1,701+ 2,400+

Division II 1,001-1,700 1,101-2,399

Division III 1,000 and below 1,100 and below

Small School Division 400 and below 500 and below

Texas has 1A - 5A Classes.

 

5A has 32 districts with 8 or 9 schools in each with 4 regions each with 8 districts. That is about 250 schools in 5A alone.

 

Texas only has 27 Districts in 1A and ~120 shcools. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

Lets talk about Florida:

 

Class 6A

83 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 2584-4742

 

Class 5A

81 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 2055-2583

 

Class 4A

81 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 1708-2054

 

Class 3A

83 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 1067-1707

 

Class 2A

39 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 617-1066

 

Class 2B

37 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 411-616

 

Class 1A

42 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 233-410

 

Class 1B

41 schools

Fall 2004 student population: 50-232

I don't get why the split the Class 1 and 2 into a an b but the point is I don't see Tennessee's A, AA, AAA systems as dark ages based on the school size and number of schools in relation to the population and size of the state.

 

 

Well of course California, Texas and Florida have a larger population than we do. The area that makes up those states are bigger and w/ several more cities w/ populations greater than 150,000, considering that we have only four cities that are above that number.

 

Population:(as of 2000 Census)

California- 33,871,648(Not even close to 45M an 10x as big, more like 5.95x as big)

Texas- 20,851,820

Florida- 15,982,378

Tennessee- 5,689,283

 

Okay, using the numbers of school per class in Florida an making 2A-B into 2A & 1A-B into 1A. And if six classes were used for TN; 1A- 48, 2A- 49, 3A- 49, 4A- 50, 5A- 50, 6A- 51. Now, take an find the percentage of teams from all classes that would make-up the 32 team playoff bracket. The results that you will find is that; Florida will have 39-42% of the teams make it verses Tennessee that will have 63-67%, that is basically 25% more of an opportunity for teams in TN to make the playoffs.

 

Now, I'm going to go back to when you said, "the original move to 1A to 5A beginning in 1993 due to it doing away with districts and creating unbalanced regions and eliminating many natural rivalries around the state.". The way I see it big dag deal if it did away with districts. The biggest part of the opponents that were in your region in other sports besides FB are now part of your FB region. The only thing I can see going away from districts would make unbalanced regions is a foe in ex: basketball is now in a different classification, for the most part you are still playing the same teams as before. And I really don't see how it did away with the natural rivalries, TSSAA is not to blame, it is the individual schools fault for not scheduling those type of games to fulfill a complete 10 game season. Take for example; Greenback(Region 2-1A) our big rivals are/were Coalfield, Midway and Vonore. We still play Coalfield and Midway(both are in Region 2-1A), but we no longer play Vonore since its no longer a HS. Both Vonore and Madisonville HS were consolidiated to make Seguoyah HS shortly after the move to five classes in 1995-96?, but we still played them several times(its just not the same). So, the way I see it, it kept the rivalries you had and even may have created new ones in the process.

[Crock1615]

Region 6

Bolivar Central

Fayette-Ware

Lexington

Liberty Tech. Magnet

Portland

Spring Hill

Springfield

 

 

there may be other problems like this with this idea, but this is the big one that i noticed.

it is over 200 miles from somerville to portland and springfield. and you have them in the same region.