Speaking of good coaches

[VolunteerGeneral]

EGO...A good mark for bringing humor to the board.

[swamp]

Ego, which plan is VolGen's? I didn't know that I hadn't commented on it...

 

ELA, I'm playing devil's advocate a little here, but how is it that Celina, in tiny, rural, Clay County doesn't have talent, but Moore County in tiny, rural Lynchburg is a perennial power?.... Does Hermitage Springs make that big a difference?

[southernpride]

Excuse me, but I've been on vacation. Now you guys are talkin' my kind of talk. As a coach, I'm going to have to side with Coach "A" on this one! I have worked in Maury County, Nashville Metro, and a few other schools around the country and I understand both sides of this debate. A great coach can do wonders if he has the right kids on his team, but like my pappy use to say, Son you can't win the race if if you don't have the horse! Yes, "VG" having a great coach who knows how to use the talent he has in the right way and he knows how to push them to do better is a huge asset, but he still has to have the talent! I think thats what my friend is trying to say!

[VolunteerGeneral]

All I`m saying is that Marley is the reason for USJ`s success. I`ve kept up with the program for over 25 years and until Marley became head coach, the school had been to all of 2 playoff games and lost both of them. Once Marley got there, the program turned around and hasn`t looked back. As I`ve said before, I agree that having some good athletes can and should make a difference. I don`t dispute that. But it ultimately becomes what you can do with it. ELA, refuses to believe that Marley is the one responsible for the school`s turn around.I`ve watched that program for years and years.I feel like that gives me some authority to speak on that matter. ELA doesn`t think so because I`m not a coach.LOL!!!! Regarding the success of the USJ program, ELA is just flat out wrong. He probably knows very little about the history of the school or it`s football program and yet he`s an expert on USJ because he`s a coach. PUHLEASE!!! And just because you have athletes doesn`t mean you can win. I`ll say it again...Lake County has athletes, but they`re horrible. WHY???? No coaching. I bet pujo`s brother is agreat coach. They have a very low population there and yet he managed to teach those kids enough and believe in themselves that he got them to the championship.

 

BTW...Welcome back from vacation.

 

PS...You`re not as bad as ELA is about throwing around the "I`m a coach" thing. But just so you`ll know...I realize that you coach. So in the future you don`t have to keep telling me that you`re a coach when you address a post to me. I don`t know what it is about you guys that you constantly have to remind people that you are a coach. It seems like half the time some of you want to make a point, you must remind everyone that your a coach. Like I told ELA earlier....I`ve seen a lot of stupid coaches (as well as some good ones) So the fact that you are a coach doesn`t impress me much. I`m not saying either one of you are stupid by any means, but being a coach doesn`t necessarily make your opinion right nor does it make it wrong. It`s just an opinion like everyone else`s.

[just1np]

I could care less about Marley, USJ, Celine(no offense ELA), or whoever, but, VG, you can not be telling us that one coach made ALL the difference in a schools' success. I refuse to believe that. I'm not talking about talent either.

Football is THE ultimate team sport! And the team starts with the man at the top, whether it be a principal or an owner(NFL of course), and it ends with the support of the fans and community. Actually you could say it goes the other way also, kind of a paradox.

Coaches are just a piece of the puzzle, albeit an intigral piece. All the pieces have to be there. End of story.

To say that this coach(Marley) turned around solely because of his efforts is obtuse. You did say "the", that is singular.

If I were associated with USJ's staff I would be offended. I think that is why ELA has such a problem with your comments. He knows what he does and what his assistants(all two of them) do year round. He knows what the parents(supportive ones at least) do to support the team. He knows what his fellow teachers do to support the team. He knows how hard the band practices to support the team. He knows how hard the cheerleading squad and their instructors work to support the team. He knows how hard his players work just to remain eligible( I know someone is going to read into that more than there is, but oh well). Do you get the picture?

I don't think it has much to do with "I'm a coach, and you're not", it has to do with being others-centered and hearing someone else foolishly say "[he] is the one responsible for the school's turnaround". Did you even realize you said "school"? So the whole school was in the tank before this guy?

 

VolunteerGeneral, I have no problem with you, your viewpoints, USJ, or the coach to which you are refering. However your posts in this thread are too narrow-minded for my tastes

[VolunteerGeneral]

just1np...I think you read too much into that. I`m not tryingto belittle the efforts of his staff. Sorry I came across that way. But Marley is the one who hired his assistants and he has some good ones. No way he could do it all himself. I didn`t mean that. But the success of that program is directly attributable to the job he has done. That includes hiring highly capable assistants. They`ve been with him awhile and I think that`s a tribute to Mickey. He is the one who has sparked enough interest in the program that they have a lot of kids come out for the team. It used not to be that way. He`s the one who sets the rules of discpline. You play by his rules or you don`t play. He had to kick off 2 starting seniors from last years team who could have made a big difference in the playoffs for breaking team rules. Some people have a knack of being natural leaders. Mickey has that. He can get his players to go the extra mile. Most any coach can lead their team to water, but not all of them can make them drink it. USJ is very fortunate to have a coach with his capabilities. They`ve had far worse at times. I don`t think it is out of line if you look at the history of the program there to say that Mickey was the major factor in it`s turnaround. Once he got things rolling and had things established, things start snowballing. He has come in and raised the bar there. There was a time before he got there when just having a winning season would have been a huge success or just making the playoffs. Now, the expectations are much higher. Yes, they have had some good athletes there, but coaching is also about taking an average kid and turning him into something. He can do that. Not all coaches have the ability to make an average kid believe that if he works hard, that he can accomplish something. I didn`t mean that he actually did everything including selling the tickets and the cooking the hamburgers. But he`s the one at the top and responsible for the outcome whether it is good or bad. I have no doubt whatsoever, that he could take one of these small rural schools that don`t accomplish much and take them to a higher level. May not win a region championship with them, but he could make them better.

[ELA]

Volunteer private... I don't know anything about USJ or coach Marley, I've only seen them play once in my life so I would be a fool to talk about them or their success or failures in the past! What I'm talking about is football in general, middle school all the way through the pros. I'm not one to throw names around, so I won't, but I know three head coaches in the NFL, several college coaches, and I have never heard any of them take full credit for winning or losing! It's is just something that we don't do. Football is a team sport from the top down and the coach is but one part of the team. Look at Coach Woody from Vanderbilt. He has a super bowl ring and has been a very good coach for years, but he took over the Vanderbilt program and was frustrated throughout his tenure at the helm. Even great coaches can't always win! Some of you are forgetting that the focus must always be on the players! We coach for the boys, not for ourselves. Any coach who coaches just for himself is very selfish! When boys do well... give them credit! They are the ones laying it all on the line every Friday night. Volunteer this is not about me or my team or Coach Marley or his team, it is a general statement about coaches. We are just men who happen to make a living coaching football. It is the boys who bleed and sacrifice for us... they deserve the credit. Coaches come and coaches go, but the glory is always with the athletes! Let us keep this thing in the right perspective. When we take credit for what the kids do, we build ourselves up when we shouldn't. I think it is great when young men praise their coaches for the leadership they gave during their experiences together, but that is true of men and women who teach and coach, whether they win or lose!

[ELA]

Swamp... I don't talk about my team on here too much! I may talk about the school or county, but seldom do I toot my own horn, or try to talk about the boys, because it comes off very distasteful for me, as a coach, to do so. We do have some talent this year... Jeremy Taylor, Tony Morris, and Tyler Walker are all seniors with a lot of talent! Chase Stephens passed for almost 1200 yards last year and may double that amount this season. Dustin Thompson and Jonathan Frazier will lead the junior class. We have a lot of talent, but I have always told my kids to let their pads do the talking! Everything else is just "trash talking" until you finish the job on the field. I don't ever want to make my comments online personal or about my team. I think that is why very few head coaches express themselves on this or any other medium like this because it sometimes comes across as being personal. My debate in the public-private arena comes from a different aspect. It may effect me down the road, but to date, it hasn't! My words and comments are a simple reflection of what most of my fellow coaches think about the matter. This conversation has taken on a "life of its own" because I contend that players make the difference on the field and coaches play a role in the matter, but not nearly as much as some FANS think they do.

[nonews]

... many thanks for thinking about me, I missed you too. However, I must respectfully decline to express my sentiments regarding this, or any other plan having to do with "to split or not to split"...

 

... eons ago, I condemned all such strategems as "useless rhetoric" although in retrospect "tilting at windmills" may have been a better metaphor. Therefore, to comment thusly would imply that mine, thine or anyone of us has even a modicum of influence or authority to make such decisions...

 

... I certainly do not intend to burst anyone's bubble, since all of you have such grand designs and illusions to the contrary...

 

... thus, I leave all such discussion to those who, in their naive and innocent delusion, subscribe to the theory that they too can make a difference...

 

... I will however remain ever diligent in my quest to insure that all such absurdities are forever labeled appropriately...

 

... satirically yours, nonews...

[Edited by nonews on 7/24/02 10:25P]

[VolunteerGeneral]

ELA..I agree with most of what you are saying. I just don`t think we are talking about the same thing here. I tsand by my statement that he is responsible for turning things around. When I say that, I`m talking about in terms like Dennis Franchionne. One of the reasons that Bama hired him was because HE was credited with turning around several programs before he got to Bama. It is in that same manner that I say Marley turned USJ around.

 

BTW...Volunteer private??? Now ELA..that is very unbecoming of a board moderator. You should know better. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead. It doesn`t hurt me. It just reflects on you.

[BDURHAM]

Bear Bryant...a great coach who won with talent. When the Tide had a couple of down years ('69-'70), the talent was the reason. The coach didn't change, but the talent did! The Bear later went on record, saying that he was thinking of going somewhere else during this period, and didn't recruit well during those years.

 

Anyone know the story of Bear Bryant's reaction to getting beat by USC when Charles White was the tailback? Coach Bryant made it very clear that he wanted talent.

 

John Hannah, Joe Namath, Ken Stabler, Lee Roy Jordan, Gene Stallings, Ozzie Newsome, Dwight Stevenson, etc. Could the great Bear Bryant have won without talent?

 

You cannot have a great coach without great talent. A quote from Bear Bryant: "No coach has ever won a game by what he knows; it's what his players know that counts."

[ELA]

Stan, as always... you have the right statement for the right thread!