Speaking of good coaches

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Yeah ELA, gee you got me, the best runningback in the country playing in the smallest and probably weakest classification in the state? That might happen once every I don't know 40 years. Not much of a reason to change work study, and oh yeah...he DIDN'T do it.

[panfan]

Well, the best QB in the state was in the smallest division and at a tradition weak program. Just to throw that out. Still, that does not happen often.

 

AS far as financial aid, ELA would you be against a kid going to work at McDonald's to help pay private school tuition? There is no difference, unless a school abuses the system. Don't assume all private schools are like BA. We all know what assuming does. If a kid works to earn the money, how can you possibly question that? Very interested to hear your response ELA.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I'm sorry, I just don't understand the Riggs example...Riggs would have made a team win at any level, I don't think shelly was the best qb either, but he was way up there. If a kid works for tution, I just don't see how that is bad, if anything it teaches him life lessons on what you have to do in order to get what you want. What if a kid was allowed to be on a college basketball team, as long as he helped clean up the gym, wash the jerseys, help prepare the film, etc. I wouldnt be against work study being moved to D2, but one player, for the most part does not completely revolutionize a team.

[pujo]

Any school has an x amount of players and some of them are always going to be better than average,then you add 1 great player to that team and you have got something.The great player can't beat anyone by himself,but then again ,he don't have to.He is an addition.Take Eric Davis for example,without him there is no way Ezell could have won the state.He had alot of help but I watched them play 3 games and he was definately the difference maker.He could score from any place on the field on offence or defence.Before anyone gets bent out of shape,I never said he was work study.Just showing how one great athelete could make such a big difference.

[ELA]

I have no problem with college work study programs, but guess what, at the NCAA DIVISION I level, a kid on work-study can't play ball. At the NAIA, NCAA DII, and DIII level they can. Why the difference, I don't know, but my guess is because of the level of competition at DI, the

NCAA doesn't want to take a chance on a school cheating with this issue. You may wonder what this has to do with high school sports? I have no problem with a kid working anywhere to earn an honest living and pay for part of his education. What I do have a problem with is establishing

something that could be used or taken advantage of by some people. This is why we establish rules, to try to prevent cheating or make it more difficult to cheat. I'm sure 95% of the programs that offer these programs follow the rules, but we don't make rules for honest people, we make

rules to establish punishment for the 5% who break the rules... it is called the RULE OF LAW concept. How much money can a kid who plays two or three sports possibly earn during a school year when he is expected to carry a high academic load and practice everyday? Maybe a kid cleans up the cafeteria after lunch, sweeps the floors before and after school, helps cut the grass? How much work could there possibly be that would be worth a few thousand dollars a year toward his/her tuition? Give poor kids a break, find them a public sector job; I have no problem

with that idea!

[Edited by ELA on 7/27/02 10:29A]

[ELA]

I agree with PUJO, take Eric Davis away from Ezell and the game is a lot closer. I still think the Eagles air attack would have been too much for the 2001 Highlanders DB's, but at least they wouldn't have had to worry about the run or the speed of Davis! Eric is a fine athlete and he made his mark on the 2001 football season. Give a small 1A school just one great athlete and they will be very tough to beat... give them three great athletes and they will win it all!

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I agree to the statement 1 player will help...and if you notice my original post, I said 1 player probably does help in 1A, but when you go up a few classifications it doesnt.

 

Here are some teams that would have been good, even if one player wasn't on them.

 

Briarcrest, Brentwood Academy, Bishop Byrne, Germantown (lost their best player), Houston, Collierville, MUS, Morristown West, McCallie, Maryville, THS, Melrose, East, Harding, ECS, CBHS (did lose their best player Ligon, still was #1 for awhile), Riverdale, DB, USJ, CPA, and many many others that I am not mentioning.

 

I have either played against, or seen the majority of those teams. I don't even know who you would say is the best player for Brentwood Academy, Maryville, or Melrose...can anyone really say who it is? 1A wise, when you are talking about the regular season...yes 1 player makes a huge difference, but when you are deep in the playoffs, and every team is good, and they know what play u are going to do, and who is going to run it, and where its going to be ran to...that comes down to not one player, but a group of individuals...Rams aren't good cus they have Marshall Faulk, good cus they have Warner, Bruce, Martz, Holt, Pace, Wilkins, Aeneas Williams etc. Faulk wasn't that great in Indianapolis...One player can not carry a football team (for the most part) when you leave 1a...sure he may be real important (especially a qb) but just because a qb or rb goes down, doesn't mean they are just done with. As I said earlier, I don't think work study is a good thing at the 1a level, because I do agree ELA that the kid is probably not carrying his load...its for that reason, not the reason that he makes the difference on a football team that I am against work study (really at any level, I don't think its that great for D2 but I guess its better then just giving someone a scholarship).

[just1np]

Does anyone have a factual example of a student-athlete on work study? Because I think ELA raises an interesting point. Who is to judge what value(e.g.-tuiton%) is placed on mopping the floors? I'm sure most schools do it right, but there is most definitely someone out there who will say " in exchange for a reduced tuition(a thousand dollar value perhaps) Joe can make sure all the restrooms have toilet paper".

Is that worth the credit that student is possibly getting?

I understand that there is only so much one can ask a 15 or 16 year old to do and still maintain a high GPA and participate in athletics, but there are some loop-holes I forsee. Most people in Davidson and the surrounding counties make $43,000 a year(Williamson makes like $65,000), and that is working 40 to 60 hours a week. Is it right to teach a student that doing a small job during the school year is worth a couple of grand?

Or is it just during the school year? Do these students help out year-round? If it is year-round then this is a good program. A lot of college students have to work in the summer( and during the school year) to pay for school. Why not get these kids used to the idea now?

As panfan said, most people do things the right way, but temptation can be overwhelming sometimes. I just don't like the idea of someone saying "we'll call it even" for a small task.

[panfan]

good grief ELA.

 

People take advantage and break every rule. People who are going to cheat are going to cheat. I don't agree with letting the 5% minority take control of the 95% majority. In other words, just b/c 5% cheat on a certain issue, doesn't mean it is something that should not be used. Heck, 5% of public schools cheat, should we not have public school athletics. I know that sounds silly, but come on. I think you are looking for something to complain about.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

ELA, do you not like it because some private schools might cheat, even though we have no proof of it?

 

Or because it is immoral...I think it's immoral, even if the kid is paying by actually doing work, I would have worked my tail to go to Harvard, but no one gave me that oppurtunity, but would they have given it if I was a great football player?

[sportsguy1]

Can someone please give some concrete examples of schools that do work study in DI??? I don't know of any that do. I am about 99% percent sure that no private DI schools in Chattanooga do it.

[just1np]

Apparently no one does, sportsguy1. I asked a similar question in my last post and recieved no answer.

Either there are no football players on work study or no one wants to give any names.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the idea if it is done right. I am just interested in some details such as what tasks are these students asked to perform and for what percentage of the tuition.