Memphis City Athletic Director Out

[noonesfool]

In East Tennessee we consider a "transfer" to the classroom as a demotion, unless it is requested. In the larger school systems transfer happen all the time and you do not have to give a reason. I do understand your concerns though.

[wtnoff]

In East Tennessee we consider a "transfer" to the classroom as a demotion, unless it is requested. In the larger school systems transfer happen all the time and you do not have to give a reason. I do understand your concerns though.

 

 

I understand what you are saying. My point is this. Coaching is a profession (teaching is necessary to obtain a coaching job). The question is "Is a coach actually hired as a teacher with coaching duties, or is he/she hired as a coach, that may or not have to in fact teach?" You know an interesting question that could be asked to witness that had been members of a search committee at a large school with a great athletic tradition and background when coaches were interviewed..."How many and what were the questions during the interview involved adacemia." I think the answer would give us all the answer as to what position it was the intent of the school system to fill and what it deemed to be important. (I'll give you one ex. that I know of this year...A school with a history of poor performing football teams offered a coach and his staff a 3 year contract, which would insure tenure for that group. That means no evaluations, etc. Now do you think these people were going to be hired to teach? What do you think a judge would think if this question were asked in court to establish whether an employee was hired to be a coach or teacher?

[therealgame]

What a fallacy!!! Do you really think schools hire coaches (ex. Head Football Coach) because they are outstanding teachers. Most job boards advertise for a coach and don't even mention teaching positions. The cloak that School Boards hide behind is "Coaching is an extracurricular activity" and "Coaches are hired as teachers first". Consider the case of a coach that demonstrates outstanding teaching abilities, and his students perform at a particularly high level. Now let's assume that this great teacher/coach goes 1-9 at a school that traditionally wins region championships and misses the playoffs. Let it happen a second time and he's out! A teacher will earn anywhere from 45.00 to 68.00 per hour. Now before you start howling, remember a teacher is on a 190 day contract. With lunch and one off period look for that teacher to be in the classroom approximately 5.5hrs per day. Multiply 5.5 x 190 and you get the actual number of hrs. worked. Divide the annual salary by this number to get the rate of hourly pay. Do the same thing for a coach. Start in the Spring, include the weight program, spring practice, then add summer conditioning, Fall practice, Friday night games, Sat. washing, lifting etc.. Total these hrs and see what you get...Hundreds of hours. Divide the coaching supplement by the number of hrs. and look at the difference between pay. In Memphis, many coaches rate of pay comes out less than .25 cents per hr. NOW...Let's assume a coach does a lousy job in the classroon but a great job on the field, gym,etc.. Guess what...He/She is great. Now let's assume this same coach does a great job in the classroon but is a loser on the field or gym floor and more than likely they are gonna get canned. This translates to...Do a lousy 50.00 to 60.00 dollar an hr. job but a great .25 cent an hour job, here comes tenure and accolades. Do a great 50.00 to 60.00 dollar an hr. job but a poor .25 cent an hour job, you get canned! Does something look wrong here? The fact is (and has been accepted in numerous courts across the South) that now Coaches are being reconigized as what they are..Coaches. The courts have ruled in numerous cases that coaches have the same rights and protection as teachers. That's the way it should be!! Do you think Melrose hired the guy with 4 Super Bowl Rings because he's a great teacher? Do you think Coach Gaddis at Henry

was hired for his expertise in the classroom. No! He was hired to turn the football program around. What about George Quarrles at Maryville. How many classes do you think he teaches? Check the successful programs around the state and you'll find that most Head Coaches at large schools with traditionally successful athletic programs teach either one, or no classes. They sit in lunchrooms, studyhalls, serve as ADM. Assts. etc. Let's get real here. Now I generally don't give out information for free, I'm going to here because I am SICK of watching these atrocities happen. I will refer you to a case called White v. Banks (Cited as Tenn, 614 S.W.2d 33). The law states... "Relieving a teacher-coach of his coaching duties alone is not a "dismissal or suspension" of the teacher, but is equivalent to a transfer within the system and is goverened by transfer statue under Teacher Tenure Act. Now...here comes the IMPORTANT part. The transfer and dismissal of a coach is a transfer as long as "IT IS MADE IN GOOD FAITH, FOR THE EFFICIENT OPERATION OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND IS NOT ARBITRARLY, CAPRICIOUSLY, OR DUE TO POLITICAL OR IMPROPER MOTIVES. (Guess what..Racial discrimination falls in here!) To win in court one must demonstrate and provide facts, witnesses, etc to show that a discriminatory act did in fact occur. The days of the "change in direction, etc" are fast coming to a close for improper dismissals by school boards.

 

 

You are correct on all counts

[cougarmike]

Check these boards for your answer. JCM hasn't been asking where is the teacher that's going to take over the football program. They're pleading for a coach to be hired to rebuild a once proud program. The illusion that coaching athletics in high schools is teaching first and coaching as a secondary function is false. This is the dirty little secret that school boards have used for years to hide behind. Lets be honest you want a coach to win. That's his job. Friday night lights can be big business and definitely community pride. How many teaching positions generate revenue to fund minor sports programs. Football and basketball revenue in many school are the financial engine that drive must school's athletic budgets not the English and Math departments. So saying coaches are teachers that coach is not realistic.

[therealgame]

Check these boards for your answer. JCM hasn't been asking where is the teacher that's going to take over the football program. They're pleading for a coach to be hired to rebuild a once proud program. The illusion that coaching athletics in high schools is teaching first and coaching as a secondary function is false. This is the dirty little secret that school boards have used for years to hide behind. Lets be honest you want a coach to win. That's his job. Friday night lights can be big business and definitely community pride. How many teaching positions generate revenue to fund minor sports programs. Football and basketball revenue in many school are the financial engine that drive must school's athletic budgets not the English and Math departments. So saying coaches are teachers that coach is not realistic.

 

 

You are right on target. You may want to check the other threads to respond to this year's version of transfer-gate. I can't remember which one it's on but you will find it.

[Indian]

What are the duties of the Memphis athletic director?

[AEtheridge]

Teachers are not on hourly contracts: when my work is done, I'm off the clock. That means that a teacher rarely works a 5.5 hour day or a 27.5 hour week, especially if that teacher takes the profession seriously. Generally, the teachers in my school remain in their rooms working for several hours after the last bell rings and often bring work home at night, especially English teachers, who have to grade writing over an extended period of time. That also entails working on Saturdays and Sundays doing the same thing and spending summers reworking yearly plans. The argument you are making regarding coaches--that the many extra hours they work unseen add up--holds true just as much for a committed teacher, such as most of those in the school where I work

 

As the coach of a "minor" sport--which I'll take to mean a "non-revenue" sport--I do think you need to narrow your discussion of coaching hiring to a few select positions. Sure, a head football or basketball coach is a different kind of hire than a cross country or track coach (which I am). Perhaps much of what you say is true regarding these coaches and their limited classroom duties--I don't know. Most of us here do teach passionately, though, and look at that as our primary task for the school. I am an English teacher, head cross country coach, and assistant track coach, which means I'm coaching for all but about 3 weeks during the school year and all but 2 weeks during the summer. It's a great job, and it's been great fun to win a few things as a coach. Make no mistake, though: if I didn't get it done in the classroom, I wouldn't be coaching at this school, no matter how many pretty trophies I hand them. I can say the same thing for my assistants and for the many coaches who work in some capacity or other in a variety of sports at my school: they get it done in the classroom. That's also the way it should be everywhere.

[formerCoach81]

(I'll give you one ex. that I know of this year...A school with a history of poor performing football teams offered a coach and his staff a 3 year contract, which would insure tenure for that group. That means no evaluations, etc. Now do you think these people were going to be hired to teach? What do you think a judge would think if this question were asked in court to establish whether an employee was hired to be a coach or teacher?

 

I know of this particular situation to be completely true. Only one of those guys takes teaching as serious as football.

 

As for Memphis City Schools, one of the schools I was an assistant at was waiting for the day that the white head coach would retire. He had been there 30 plus years. He knew what they wanted but he kept messing with them and would tell them he was thinking about coaching another year or two. As soon as he left the whole staff was replaced with "good black, male role models". I also know that at one point there were a high percentage of black coaches that were teaching in the MCS without licenses and I know of some white coaches that applied and were turned down. The board said there were no available positions. Someone without a license is only supposed to be given a job if there are no available certificated personnel in that field. This was bypassed. I'm not trying to start a race debate here as I have good friends of different kinds of races. I'm just saying that it goes both ways.

[wtnoff]

Teachers are not on hourly contracts: when my work is done, I'm off the clock. That means that a teacher rarely works a 5.5 hour day or a 27.5 hour week, especially if that teacher takes the profession seriously. Generally, the teachers in my school remain in their rooms working for several hours after the last bell rings and often bring work home at night, especially English teachers, who have to grade writing over an extended period of time. That also entails working on Saturdays and Sundays doing the same thing and spending summers reworking yearly plans. The argument you are making regarding coaches--that the many extra hours they work unseen add up--holds true just as much for a committed teacher, such as most of those in the school where I work

 

As the coach of a "minor" sport--which I'll take to mean a "non-revenue" sport--I do think you need to narrow your discussion of coaching hiring to a few select positions. Sure, a head football or basketball coach is a different kind of hire than a cross country or track coach (which I am). Perhaps much of what you say is true regarding these coaches and their limited classroom duties--I don't know. Most of us here do teach passionately, though, and look at that as our primary task for the school. I am an English teacher, head cross country coach, and assistant track coach, which means I'm coaching for all but about 3 weeks during the school year and all but 2 weeks during the summer. It's a great job, and it's been great fun to win a few things as a coach. Make no mistake, though: if I didn't get it done in the classroom, I wouldn't be coaching at this school, no matter how many pretty trophies I hand them. I can say the same thing for my assistants and for the many coaches who work in some capacity or other in a variety of sports at my school: they get it done in the classroom. That's also the way it should be everywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was not talkikng about non-revenue producing sports. I was talking about a Head Football Coach! The difference between your position and the Head Coach at a place such as Hillsboro, Maryville, etc. can best be described in two words....Community interest and Finances. While you may have a half dozen supporters for your program a a cross country meet, hundreds or thousands sit in the stands on Friday nights. They bring the money that supports your sport and they sit as judge and jury for your counterpart, the Head Football coach. The jury verdict is based on the points on the scoreboard. As I said, do a great 25 cent per hr. job and a lousy 50.00 dollar an hr. job and be the ###### of the walk in the community. Do a great 50.00 dollar an hr. job and a pitiful 25 cent hr. job and you will find For Sale signs in your yard and representatives from moving companies calling your home. I truly appreciate you and your efforts in the classroom, however, make no mistake about it..The difference in the two is as different as night and day.

[AEtheridge]

Well, it's very good that you clarify that for me. I cannot say that I support your argument, though, in very many ways, at least from a philosophical point of view. Perhaps you'll argue that the "real world" is different.

 

Our team's "half-dozen" supporters actually provide more than 85% of the money that funds the sports that I coach. In the school systems that surround me, those supporters often provide 100% of the money that funds those sports, including uniforms, supplies, transportation, entry fees, and other money associated with an athletic budget. (I am thinking specifically of several top-of-the-line programs with dozens of kids on the team.) I'm not opposed to to that, since we have loads more freedom to do exactly what we want to do in terms of travel and competitions than we would if I had to argue for every dime we spent. But let's be clear that football does not always fund us "minor" sports.

 

Athletic departments are not providing these sports with all of the money you suggest, at least not in this area. Individual boosters clubs are--and I'm not talking about those boosters associated with football. Most of us see very, very little money with any relation whatsoever to football or any other sport. I wouldn't mind having it--more money is always better! But it has not happened during my tenure as a coach.

 

Neither is the difference "night and day" if you are at a good school. At a good school the coaching staff is expected to do more than just coach--period.

 

I see that this thread has gone astray. I rarely post on football threads, although they are always more interesting than everything else other than girls' soccer, but I had to in this case because of the argument above re: coaches, teaching, and (later) athletic budgets.

[clintabbott]

A good coach is a good teacher, coaching is teaching.

[DHSFB64]

In case you weren't aware of it, there is something called fair practice in this country regarding job employment! Consider the type of system you have in the MCS. When Weedon resigned his position at Memphis State and accepted the position of AD with the city, numerous coaches within the system went to the board of education complaining that they did not want a "white" AD. Guess what! Weedon was called in by then Supt., Dr House and the job offer was rescinded. He was only able to retain the position by threatening to file a Fed. law suit. Facts are facts! How many white head coaches are in the system. Of approximately 27 schools, I think that only Central and Cordova have coaches that are white. The numbers say that 25 are black and only 2 are white. Do little bells go off here? I know of numerous coaches that have applied for positions within the city that were more than qualified and were denied with the explanation "We feel we need a black coach to serve as a role model for our predominately black students." This is unacceptable! I believe if you check, and I have, you'll find a policy statement by the board saying "All employment decisions are based on QUALIFICATIONS, EXPERIENCE, AND JOB PERFORMANCE". How does the city explain the fact that quality, proven coaches have applied for positions and coaches with no or little experience have been hired over them? I think you know the answer. I only wish people like Weedon and others that have been turned down for jobs, or replaced with NO EXPLANATION OR CAUSE would flood the law offices in Memphis. Weedon's case is simply another in a LONG line of people that have been replaced simply because of the color of their skin! Through the years, the civil liberties of employees and prospective employees have been stepped on by this group. It is inexcuseable, and totally unacceptable in today's society, yet it is allowed to happen time and time again. There is an old saying that goes, "Evil prevails when good men sit idly by and do nothing." Hopefully, someone like Weedon will choose to "do something."

 

 

True on all accounts of your posts concerning this topic..King Wille rules Memphis on every avenue pursused..remember he applied for MCS super,supposely to leave his mayorial throne..not! > he wanted to throw everything in Memphis in disarray as is common for his unscroupous misdemeanor by renigging on it..also before Dr.Cash recieved his approval The King (what a Joke) threanted to revoke it,later to jokingly take his name out of the approval process..his way to let Dr.Cash know whos running the "funny" show in Memphis.. is it racism in Memphis.. one has but one guess...look at him giving his former bodyguards (all who had served jail time)jobs in Memphis upper class positions. yes the racism bell rings loud and clear in Memphis ..the Kings way is best no matter whom it hurts

MCS coaches are not hired to be a role model as suggested by others..just win at all costs..think again if the best athlectics arent MCS spread all around to have at least two schools in each region /class to bring back the Gold. VERY SAD