Who are soccer officials accountable to?

[Whitey]

5944,

Reputations that are good ones are a valuable thing. Your daughter's reputation, your reputation, the reputation of your team, your community and your school are all important to you. So is the reputation of the ref that got wrongfully slammed on this board to him. Sorry if I have offended you with things I have said but bear in mind that I was trying to make a point. No one likes to get slammed unfairly especially behind their back. If that guy could not ref where one of his select players have come from at one time or another, then there would hardly be a school in our entire region (districts 7 and 8)that he could ref as he has had players from almost every High School around. He would not cut any of his select players any slack. It seems that you and maybe some others from Coffee County have some prejudice towards this ref. That is your problem and not his. Just because you feel that way towards him does not mean that he has bad feelings towards Coffee County or that he will not be a professional when he gets on the field and do his job. It is tough enough to step out into the center of a soccer field and that job is made harder when a person steps out into a situation where the fans already have it in for him before the game starts. I hope that we have all learned from this. I have many friends down in Coffee County that I work with and they are all good people. We talk soccer all the time. This discussion has not changed my feelings towards any of the people of Coffee County. Again, I just wanted to set the record straight. Warren County does not need a ref to cheat for them. No hard feelings here. If I have offended you or anyone else, then I am truly sorry.

SHS01, you are a good coach and are setting a good example before your players. I have watched you over the last couple of years and have seen you grow. Keep up the good work!

[Illini]

I believe their is a person from cc who has a daughter playing and he is an offical. I also know that, that person dosn't like the particular ref that called the game. This is one reason I think that the people from cc were upset at this person who called the game. So take that for what it is, but you can't go into a game with a precieved notion that you are going to get cheated. I don't know if this is the reason this all started but, I would bet this had something to do with it? Just an observation but I bet i'm not to far off.

[Guest 5944]

SHS01, Whitey & bbreftn,

 

To be totally honest, I never intended to slam or damage anyone's reputation, as I hope you did not mean to target my daughter. You are right when you say that CC has problems with this ref in question. Again, it all stems from a long standing rivalry. But, that's what sports are all about, rivalrys and the desire to win (not necessarily all good things, but that's the way it is anyway). I did not use the referee's name on purpose. I really never meant for anyone to know who he was. I was not aware that there were so many individuals who would recognize him. This was a total mistake on my part.

 

It is good to see so many individuals speak out for those they respect. I also respect the individual you mentioned (the father from CC who refs and has a daughter that plays). He is a good ref, a good father and has a very good daughter. He has very little influence on our feelings towards this one particular ref. Most of the girls on CC has played against the teams he coaches in the spring, so everyone is very familiar with him. He is a very good coach. It just seems we always have very physical games with his teams and that always seems to cause parents to become suspicious of the coach. They begin to think that the coach teaches the pushing and shoving. I know that's not the case because my daughter, to be quite honest, learned hers from playing select soccer in Nashville. It's just becomes part of the game when you get to that level. Not that anyone does it on purpose, it's just that when you get bodies bumping bodies, someone is going to the ground eventually. They are all very competitive and no one likes to be beat one on one, so retaliation always seems to follow.

 

I also never intended to make it sound like WC needed a ref to cheat for them to win. They've been beating our rearends for years. Why would they need help from a ref, now? They are a very good team and will be tough to beat in the future. Because of the quality of their coach, I'm sure they will be a better team because of this loss. He will make something good come out of it.

 

Again, I appologize for anything I might have said to offend anyone and I want to wish WC "good luck" with the rest of their season.

[Illini]

Hey evryone lets let this thing go. 5944 and whitey. I accept it as it is and hope all soccer teams in the area have a good season and maybe the people who have read this will realize that everyone has feelings including the officials, and that no one is trying to cheat. Refereeing is hard you have to make a split second decision and everyone else gets to set back and judge it for a while and talk about it. So that is all I'm going to say on this subject I just hope everyone has a good day and maybe we'll see you at the feild.

[scout]

It is my observation that soccer officials seek to present an overly authoritarian atmosphere that borders on being dictatorial. Unlike football and basketball officials, there is little if any interaction with the coaches, such as explaining a call, or with the players. Anyone who has played high school football in Tennessee remembers the officials giving words of encouragement and polite admonishment such as "get up clean". While there may be disagreement on calls, football and basketball officials are generally viewed as a benevolent authority that is subject to review, grading and accountability.

 

Soccer refs present a different image. Their primary focus appears to be displaying their authority as judge, jury and D.A to the coaches, fans and players. So consistent is this display that one can only conclude that it is cultural. (It also shows its ugly head in the YMCA soccer leagues and travel leagues). I am not being critical of the accuracy of calls. Bad calls will happen and that is an important lesson for youngsters.

 

I would change what comes across as an arrogant, in your face display of unaccountable authority by soccer officials. At present, it often appears there are Napoleonic complexes governing the games rather than mature, concerned adults.

[Illini]

Posted by scout:

It is my observation that soccer officials seek to present an overly authoritarian atmosphere that borders on being dictatorial. Unlike football and basketball officials, there is little if any interaction with the coaches, such as explaining a call, or with the players. Anyone who has played high school football in Tennessee remembers the officials giving words of encouragement and polite admonishment such as "get up clean". While there may be disagreement on calls, football and basketball officials are generally viewed as a benevolent authority that is subject to review, grading and accountability.

 

Soccer refs present a different image. Their primary focus appears to be displaying their authority as judge, jury and D.A to the coaches, fans and players. So consistent is this display that one can only conclude that it is cultural. (It also shows its ugly head in the YMCA soccer leagues and travel leagues). I am not being critical of the accuracy of calls. Bad calls will happen and that is an important lesson for youngsters.

 

I would change what comes across as an arrogant, in your face display of unaccountable authority by soccer officials. At present, it often appears there are Napoleonic complexes governing the games rather than mature, concerned adults.

 

 

Scout You are probably right in your comments. One thing you need to remember about soccer that makes it different from football and basketball is the rules of the game. For example in girls soccer this I can tell you from experiance is girls don't like to be touched and they will get their shot in one way or another. Yes you can talk to the players but no one sees this from the sidelines or from the fans side. I for one try to talk the players out of fouls and when to clean it up then if they don't then you have to take action. These kids today are taught in traveling soccer how to get away with everything. Then when high school season comes we as officials have to clean it up. The officials in the off season let them play rougher and they also play to different rules than they do in high school. It's not like football and basketball were you play under the same rules. In soccer you have fifa rules and in high school you have tssaa or nfhs rules which are different. These are not excuses for some refs but you have to realize no two refs are the same and their are some who like to be dictators but most try to comunicate and be as fair and talk to the players and coaches. As to the fans I don't think any official should ever try to explain himself to the fans because most do not understand the ules and it just leads to more contraversy.

[redandblack63]

Scout:

 

Well said. You said exactly what I meant to say in my earlier post on this thread. Now the major question that must be answered is, what can be done about it. It is not good for the game when you have officials who refuse to explain rules violations to players or coaches. Part of their job is to help educate the players and coaches. They must remember that many of the coaches and players are relatively new to the game and their questions are legitamate. Officials unwilliness to explain leads to frustration and futher questioning of their calls. Also what happens when officials don't show up for games. Are they punished in any way. Players and coaches show up expecting a full crew. When you have parents, students, etc... calling lines that is a recipe for trouble. Also how about the poor guy who shows up. He really is put on the spot. This happened this past Tuesday at Clinton. Only one official showed up for a District game. Everyone involved was cheated. HOW CAN WE RID OUR GAME OF SUCH INCOMPETENCE!!!!!

[Illini]

First off the coaches get a rule book just like the officials. We officials have to read them why shouldn't the coaches read them. I just don't understand why officials have to explain themselves on a call. Does the coach have to explain who they start or who they play to the official. I don't think so. does the kid have to explain to the official why they fouled someone. NO So why is it that the officials have to explain their self to everybody? The coaches know the rules, Yea some play dumb and act like they don't know them, and the same goes for the kids. The ones that don't know the rules is the parents. Their is nothing in the rule book about explaining your calls. Plus if you try at the time of the foul the kids don't listen because they think you are wrong anyway. After the game if they want to ask me a question about what I saw and how I interperated the call I will be more than glad to if it's in a cival manner. They took out explaining yourself in the rule book 4 years ago. Remmember on most calles in soccer it is the refs decretion on the call. How he sees it and at what angle he sees it. Everyone has a different angle and sees things differently. As for the cocky officials the only thing I can tell you is to have the coach get ahold of the assigner in your area and let them know you don't want them. That is a right the coaches have to a point. It will go alot better that way than in this forum.

[KeithHamilton]

Scout and Redrage,

We need more knowledgeable, competent, and highly credible people like you calling the games. Why don't the two of you get in touch with the assigner in your area and complete the necessary requirements for becoming a certified ref? Seriously, we have a shortage in many areas and many times we have so many games to cover that we do not have enough refs to cover the games. Sometimes we have to do an early game in one town and then drive like crazy to get to another town just to be able to cover all the games we have to cover on a given day. Sometimes we have so many games to cover that we can only send one ref and generally we try to let the coaches know that is going to happen. However, there are times when one of us gets sick or has something else unexpectedly to happen and we do not have a back up we can call on to help out. So, you would be doing everyone a favor if you two would become refs. With your vision and knowledge of the game you two would be a great resource for the other refs who need to be taught how to do it right.

[scout]

Posted by KeithHamilton:

Scout and Redrage,

We need more knowledgeable, competent, and highly credible people like you calling the games. Why don't the two of you get in touch with the assigner in your area and complete the necessary requirements for becoming a certified ref? Seriously, we have a shortage in many areas and many times we have so many games to cover that we do not have enough refs to cover the games. Sometimes we have to do an early game in one town and then drive like crazy to get to another town just to be able to cover all the games we have to cover on a given day. Sometimes we have so many games to cover that we can only send one ref and generally we try to let the coaches know that is going to happen. However, there are times when one of us gets sick or has something else unexpectedly to happen and we do not have a back up we can call on to help out. So, you would be doing everyone a favor if you two would become refs. With your vision and knowledge of the game you two would be a great resource for the other refs who need to be taught how to do it right.

 

KeithHamilton,

We are not talking about soccer knowledge here we are talking about attitudes. We could start with yours. Yes, refs have a thankless job. Yes, most people will argue with them even if they make the right call. We are not talking about correct calls. We are talking about an attitude that is different from football and basketball refs and baseball umpires who have just as many disadvantages and difficult tasks as soccers refs. But they (football, basketball & baseball refs) do their job without the institutional arrogance of an European Monarch. It is not good for the kids and it is not good for the game!

 

Again, I'm not just talking about TSSAA refs here but also about the Y programs and the travel leagues. Sportsmanship should start with the authority on the field.

[KeithHamilton]

Scout, how do you KNOW what my attitude is? Since when did you develop the ability to read someone's mind and heart? I am sincere when I asked two people who challenge what refs are doing, who seem to have a reasonable understanding of the game, and who have the high ethical standards that you and redrage have to step up and lend a hand and not just sit back and criticize. Why are you slamming me for my attitude? I believe that if all a person can do is criticize others and not try to help, really help, to change things that they see are wrong that the best thing for them to do is not say anything at all. That is just my philosophy about things in life. I do not believe in criticizing my government and then not try to help make the changes that I think should be made. I get involved. I do not criticize others who are trying to make a difference without doing something (more than just shooting my mouth off) to actually try and help. We need more good people to help ref. Tonight I was supposed to call a game at seven. Instead I had to go to another game at 5:00 because the ref that was supposed to go to that game had to go somewhere else in fill in where we were short. Then he had a hour drive to get to the game we had at 7:00 in another city. This is typical of what we have to do all the time. There is nothing wrong with my attitude and I do not believe you have the right or the ability to slap me when all I am doing is challenging you to get involved and try to help. If all you want to do is run your mouth and run other people down, then you are not the ethical person you make yourself out to be. That is just my opinion. "In the opinion of the referee ...." (Law 5)

[scout]

KeithHamilton,

I took your concluding comment, "With your vision and knowledge of the game you two would be a great resource for the other refs who need to be taught how to do it right" as sarcasm. If that is not the way you intended it, then I apologize.