TSSAA OFFICIALS

[bill30]

I have no problem with the refs at all!!!!! Without them it would be just another AND1 game! I just have a problem with the arrogant ones who care nothing for the kids because that is what the game is about right or am i wrong?

 

 

The only thing I would hope that all of you would do is get a sideline seat under the bucket and view everything at the same time instead of just ball watching.

[MVM]

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

 

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> You know, everyone has made some excellent comments throughout this discussion, well everyone except the accusation that I was bashing Upward Basketball for which I have the utmost of respect....not only for the coaches, but the officials and everyone else involved. Those officials who are doing their best to keep the game "what it is supposed to be" need to be commended, and there is no way to show them the appreciation they deserve. Those marginal officials the WE judge to be marginal, just need a little "encouragement" from those who evaluate their performance to just "step things up a little". They deserve some appreciation as well, and a little slack ever now and them when a bad call happens. But, these officials who truly are out there on a "power trip" need to be removed. I would never advocate any disciplinary action on ANY official on the complaints of a couple of disgruntled coaches. But when the same officials receive the same complaints over and over and over....well you get the idea, then something needs to be done. Send them back to JV or elementary ball for a while to "hone" their skills a little. Those who receive complaints year after year need to be dismissed completely. I don't want to be unfair to those officials who are doing their best to keep things within the rule book, and that was NEVER my intention when I started this thread. But, there are a couple of officials I have watched over the past few years who have no business being on the court. It's just a matter of time until they let something go and tempers flare on the floor. That's the same as taunting a player into a T-foul. Once more, to all you officials who are going above and beyond, who do not receive the respect and appreciation you deserve, thank you for making this sport better ever game. To those out there on your "power trips", it's just a matter of time. Somewhere along the way, you will "pick on" the wrong coach/player, and we will finally be rid of you. Untill then, we still have the "blackball"!

 

 

Yes coaches still have the "blackball" ....as they should.

 

Now I'm not sure if any of you (bearclaw, Lf, or bill30) are coaches, but if you are then my advice is to speak with your ref assignor. I have found they are very approachable if approached in a respectful way. They want what we all want out of a an officiated game ....to get it right.

 

If you are coaches, they my ask you to approach past players to become refs or if you know of past or present college players to become refs or even ask around during a mens church league. As coaches or even as spectators there are things that you can do to make it better over time. I am constantly looking for these types to become new refs.

 

But if all we do is set on our butts and complain on coacht.....Well, have we really done anything to solve the problem?

[ernieg]

Those of you who are debating - Most refs know that quality played games are easier to officiate than the games with lesser talented players, because the violation and foul variables increase dramatically in the latter...Also, girl's games seem to be more difficult to officiate because of increased (maybe not the right word) contact which occurs for several reasons...Parents seem to get more upset during girl's contests...not a sexist comment, just a fact...

 

Referees should work together throughout the contest to get the calls right, while staying in their primary areas...Rarely should you have double whistles, if you are working as a unit...Each year, even seasoned officials continue to learn and improve, if they continue to want to get better...And, believe me, coaches and fans arguing and berating the officials, only cause most games to grow more troublesome...however you want to interpret that...and in the end, serves no purpose to help improve our officiating....if you are a conscientious official..

 

Good officials also discuss plays and situations before and after the game with each other, and also at assigned meetings, to make sure all the officials are on the same page...

 

Bottom line....some people say "Let them play" and some people say "call the foul or violation"......AN IMPOSSIBLE

CONUNDRUM!!!! /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[BeaverNTN]

Bottom line....some people say "Let them play" and some people say "call the foul or violation"......

 

 

Most of the fans I hear are saying both, depending on which team has the ball.

[T2S2A]

The only thing I would hope that all of you would do is get a sideline seat under the bucket and view everything at the same time instead of just ball watching.

 

 

This may be a dumb question.. but how can you have a sideline seat that is under the bucket? Last time I checked, no buckets were located on the sidelines unless you're referring to those practice goals that are on the sides in some gyms. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[fiftyfifty]

the problem is not that young officials do not need to work varsity games. the problem is disciplining the refs who make the same mistakes over and over or who do not belong period. i have seen some outstanding young refs and some very poor veteran refs and vice versa this year.

 

here is a solution: hold the refs accountable for their actions. and i don't mean not letting them ref a post season tournament because they got bad marks. i am talking about suspensions for failing to know the rules, inappropriate actions like the post before stated. if a ref conitues to make these types of mistakes and instead of a talking to they get hit in the wallet by not being assigned games they may shape up and learn to be a good ref.

 

case in point: on monday in a boys varisty game, a coach complained that the ref at half court was not swinging his arm to get a five second count. when the coach asked him why he was not counting the ref replied " your player was too close and put his forearm on the player". so why not call a foul and let the defensive player know he can't do that instead of doing nothing and getting into an argument with a coach? this was a ref that has been around for about 6 years now.

 

the other problem i see is the refs talk to much and this gets them in trouble: you are paid to call the game, not to conversate with every one in the gym during the game. i know good refs will talk to players and coaches during the game to explain things and such which i think is great. but some don't know when to shut up and allow coaches to talk them into saying something incredible dumb and wrong and then get mad at the coach for pointing this out.

 

case in point: a saw a girl driblling down the baseline with a defender all over her. the girl extended her arm and pushed off and got called for an offensive foul. the coach asked the ref what did she do and he said pushed off. the coach said to the ref that if the girl was not riding her all the way down the baseline she would not have to push off. the ref responded that the defender was no where near the girl, so the coach asked how did his girl push off if the girl was no where near her thus getting a tech from the ref beacuse the ref got mad that he said something stupid and it was pointed out.

 

i could go on and on but won't. my point has been made.

 

Just to show you how things are seen many different ways by each individual, you stated that a girl was riding another girl dribbling the basketball down the baseline. The girl with the ball extended her arm and was called for charging. I totally agree with the call. If the girl was riding her as close as you stated, there would have been no need to extend anything. But thats my judgement, your judgement might be different. So many calls are just that, judgement calls, there is not a hard-fast rule that makes the call automatic as anyone who knows anything about basketball would know. So you see, all the calls and how good they were or how bad depends on who you are talking to. The difference in todays officials and officials of yesteryear is that there are ten times as many experts today. Several years ago, there wasn't as many experts or maybe just more respect for someone trying to do a tough job. I am amazed that anybody is willing to officiate todays high school games. The hollering and screaming by the crowd is shameful. And now someone is posting about punishing officials who make mistakes. Where oh where are the days of going to a ballgame and enjoying good competition and knowing that all calls are not going my way, but that in the end most every time, the calls are pretty even for both teams. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[fiftyfifty]

Can we come up with similar requirements for coaches and players, clock operators and scorekeepers, cheerleaders and dance teams, or maybe the fans and Coach T posters? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.... /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

 

Or just refs because you simply don't like them? /huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

 

 

How about coming up with some requirements for fans. If that was done, the crowds was be less, but probably more fun, old leadbottom would not be there. He keeps citing if it is a correct call, but that is a judgement and just like elbows and _______, we all got one. No solution to this. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[BeaverNTN]

This post was made in the Wrestling Forum, but I believe it should be posted here as well. Perhaps everyone could learn a lesson from this coach.

 

I as a wrestling coach in Region 1 know most of the officials in our region and the 4 officials that called the region 1 tournament this weekend in Greeneville. It would be easy for me to get on here and be critical of these men, but in the same scope it would be easy for people to get on here and be critical of me and my job as a wrestling coach. We may not agree with calls that are made and the implications of those calls, but to say we have the worst officials in the state is not being fair to those men. I can look back on this weekend and rememebr when I thought a bad call was made and ofcourse it made me mad, but 15 minutes later you have another match and it is over and I can still keep a positive relationship with the officials. Like them or not you have to live and respect them and the job they are doing for our sport. I give the officials as much grief as the next man, but also understand that they along with myself are human and make mistakes everyday and should not be judged on that but rather the relationships that those officials have with us the coaches and our kids the wrestlers. I watch our officials interact with our kids and see how they have a great relationship with our kids and other coaches and yes there will always be situations occur that we will not agree with but as coaches we must look over those times and understand that is just part of the game. I do however have a growing issue with parents more these days than I have ever had with officials. I am shocked at the number of parents that believe that they are entitled to say or act however they want at these tournaments. I have had more problems from parents at home matches and away this season than any other year that I can remember of my 16 years coaching the sport. I would suggest that parents let the coaching be done by coaches and officiating be done by officials and you be the parent that is a positive support system and not one that is acting like a 12 year old mouthing off to everybody in the gym. These are just my opinions and ofcourse I imagine that someone will have thier own counterpoint which is to be expected.

[Lead]

Yes coaches still have the "blackball" ....as they should.

 

Now I'm not sure if any of you (bearclaw, Lf, or bill30) are coaches, but if you are then my advice is to speak with your ref assignor. I have found they are very approachable if approached in a respectful way. They want what we all want out of a an officiated game ....to get it right.

 

If you are coaches, they my ask you to approach past players to become refs or if you know of past or present college players to become refs or even ask around during a mens church league. As coaches or even as spectators there are things that you can do to make it better over time. I am constantly looking for these types to become new refs.

 

But if all we do is set on our butts and complain on coacht.....Well, have we really done anything to solve the problem?

 

I agree! good post!

[Lead]

I guess I will just be a moron then. The good refs move on and move up in the world of officiating. The bad ones, or the so called 3rd legs, will keep hanging around high school basketball. Why? Because there aren't enough out there to cover every game, thus these guys/gals that pay their money, take their test get to go out on a Tuesday or Friday night and referee. Are they bad? Probably. Can you do anything about it but whine and complain on a message board? Probably not. Until you can convince the TSSAA to compete with the pay of college games, I doubt you will convince any of these so-called better refs, to stick around high school basketball very long.

 

Have you sent in your money and gotten your test yet? I believe they have their camps in the summer. It's not too late for you LF. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

I would love to be an official but my job wont let me beacuae i am out of town most of the year

[BEARCLAW]

Those of you who are debating - Most refs know that quality played games are easier to officiate than the games with lesser talented players, because the violation and foul variables increase dramatically in the latter...Also, girl's games seem to be more difficult to officiate because of increased (maybe not the right word) contact which occurs for several reasons...Parents seem to get more upset during girl's contests...not a sexist comment, just a fact...

 

Referees should work together throughout the contest to get the calls right, while staying in their primary areas...Rarely should you have double whistles, if you are working as a unit...Each year, even seasoned officials continue to learn and improve, if they continue to want to get better...And, believe me, coaches and fans arguing and berating the officials, only cause most games to grow more troublesome...however you want to interpret that...and in the end, serves no purpose to help improve our officiating....if you are a conscientious official..

 

Good officials also discuss plays and situations before and after the game with each other, and also at assigned meetings, to make sure all the officials are on the same page...

 

Bottom line....some people say "Let them play" and some people say "call the foul or violation"......AN IMPOSSIBLE

CONUNDRUM!!!! /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> Just got home from two good games tonight. 3 officials on the court. One experienced, and the other two fairly new at calling high school ball. All 3 did a good job. All covered where they were supposed to be and helped each other out, as one would expect. No grandstanding, some missed calls, and some bad calls, but that is understandable. Two gentlemen and a lady. Good job tonight "STRIPES". Keep up the good work!

[bill30]

Yes coaches still have the "blackball" ....as they should.

 

Now I'm not sure if any of you (bearclaw, Lf, or bill30) are coaches, but if you are then my advice is to speak with your ref assignor. I have found they are very approachable if approached in a respectful way. They want what we all want out of a an officiated game ....to get it right.

 

If you are coaches, they my ask you to approach past players to become refs or if you know of past or present college players to become refs or even ask around during a mens church league. As coaches or even as spectators there are things that you can do to make it better over time. I am constantly looking for these types to become new refs.

 

But if all we do is set on our butts and complain on coacht.....Well, have we really done anything to solve the problem?

 

 

I coach AAU spring thru Summer and start Reffing in the fall with Football inJuly and end in Feb with Basketball so I have the perspective from both sides and must say that the ref side is less hassle but much more mentally taxing. I wish to tell everyone that in no way are we officials perfect and with any job there are good and bad employees but what is most distressing is the fact that the people supervising are usually friends with the officials that are in the waning years and won't quit and the supervisors will not pull them out of respect. I am all for the respect but what I find is they are more worried about how you look than how well you get the calls right. The system tends to work like a union with seniority being the front and center rather than the best being put at the top.