Div II Favorite

[KWoodroof]

This is certainly not an accusation or scurrilous gossip. Where did you go to law school? Oh and it's not insinuation and innuendo either. It is simple curiosity. Lots of teams in all of the various categories are well coached, and are well disciplined. As far as tradition goes, my son is playing on a team that my great-grandfather played on. Do you mean you have no young women at your school? Put your evidence on the table. Answer the questions in my earlier post, please? Lots of schools had winning traditions in the years before real competition.

 

For obvious reasons (FERPA, specifically), schools don't identify who receives financial aid and such. And the financial aid is not a scholarship, rather, it is an outside organization's assessment of what a family can afford to pay. In other words, no one is on a free ride.

 

Do I mean that we have no young woman at MBA? That's exactly what I mean; it's an all male school.

 

Nice to see that your son is the third generation of your family at his school. Consolidation in Nashville has all but eliminated that. I like and admire tradition. Sadly, it seems that much of what happened from the '70's through the '90's was geared towards destroying that. Among other things, the move from 3 classifcation to several more, in addition to a second division, robbed MBA of some long-standing rivalries. It's common knowledge that MBA had significant rivalries with Hillsboro and Overton. MBA's relationship with Pearl is less well-known: MBA was the first white school to play Pearl in football, and nearly got expelled from the NIL for it. Less well known are historical rivalries with Litton, Dupont, and East. I miss some of those games.

[KWoodroof]

Here is all you need to know about D1 football, versus D2...The argument is epitomized by my "favortie" subject, MBA and Hillsboro. Both have emerged as dominant teams in their respective divisions, with Hillsboro making multiple 4A title appearances and getting over the Maryville hump last year and claiming their second 4A title in the decade. MBA has won multiple titles in D2 while scheduling and winning multiple high profile out-of-state games.

 

The two schools are located about a 5 iron from each other and recently renewed their rivalry with a 2 game, home-home series. It is a historical rivalry with huge local fan interest from generations of people from West Nashville/Green Hills. Both games were busting at the seams with fans. My friends who attended the MBA game at MBA 2 years ago said it was the most exciting atmosphere they had seen at a game since the pre-split era. Both games went absolutely down to the wire. MBA won both NARROWLY. and best of all, the games don't count in any sort of offical standings, so it is all about bragging rights, a fun atmosphere for the fans, and a quality game that pays dividends (perhaps evidenced by Hillsboro's title) down the road in meaningful games. No one has to worry about the implications of scheduling and losing...and if you're Hillsboro and you lose? No sweat, just declare that "MBA cheats" and dismiss it completely. Win, and you are the king of the hill.

 

So, naturally, this being Tennessee and all...what does Hillsboro do with this fantastic series that has nothing but upside for both teams? Back out of it, of course. No more MBA-Hillsboro games, purely because Hillsboro doesn't want them. So anyone with a rational reason for why Hillsboro doesn't play this game, I'd love to hear it.

 

Change of coaches, perhaps?

 

Nice to see you back, btw.

[big red big blue]

My feathers are not ruffled. We've been dealing with this for years on CoachT.

 

 

what's always fascinating to me is the number, over the years, of D1 supporters who feel the need to drop into to D2 threads and offer up their (unsolicited) opinions about D2 competition, teams, etc. And let us know what they think about us. Maybe at some point some D2 supporter has done the same, but I haven't seen it. Even though we are the ones constantly on the defensive about these sorts of things, we are by far the more restrained group. Of course, we all have our opinions on what a watered down joke D1 is, but assuredly you won't find us trolling the D1 boards looking for opportunities to share that with them.

 

Here's the deal...we were all very happy competing together with the public schools for decades and decades. There wasn't rampant rule breaking. There was properly adminstered financial aid (same as today)...and you know what? We won precisely the percentage of state titles that our membership accounted for in 3A. So as KW has noted many times, if we were cheating, we certainly weren't very good at it. There is no, "play by the rules, and come back to D1." The TSSAA woke up one morning and (at the behest of several cry-babies) changed the rules in such a way that would have required us to essentially blow up our schools and start over in order to keep playing in D1. Sports aren't so important to us that we'd shutter financial aid that we've been awarding for decades (mainly to non athletes), or telling the student body "only rich kids not on financial aid can come out for the team." It is (and was) a complete non-starter, which is precisely the reason the architects of D2 (not us, by the way) chose it as the basis for the league. Because they knew it was the only sure-fire way to banish us for good. There couldn't be a multiplier because we were all for the most part playing with a de facto multiplier.

 

It is what it is...I as an MBA fan respect those schools in D1 (i.e., Ravenwood, Independence, Smyrna, Lavergne, etc.) who do care about quality, fun, local games and put us on their schedules...those who expect and get great games. Otherwise, D2 is imperfect, and the attendance and fan interest is a reflection of this crappy league the TSSAA dumped us into 10 years ago (imagine if the TSSAA imposed the same thing on 10 random D1 teams scattered all over the state...talk about disastrous attendance. Any thoughtful person can appreciate how well we have held up in that regard). I'm content that we have a great school that does things the right way in every regard, and well, you can't have everything in this era of pettiness and jealousy...so we make the best of it. We have 3 great local rivalries in BA, EHS, and FRHS that will be fun for years to come. There won't be any 5-year 70 game winning streaks in D2, that's for sure.

[big red big blue]

Change of coaches, perhaps?

 

Nice to see you back, btw.

 

 

no, not the reason...school killed it before they had hired the new coach.

 

And, thank you, and I enjoyed your update in the alumni magazine in hockey gear several months ago...and I have to assume it was rollredroll you described meeting on the bus to the Moeller game.

[KWoodroof]

no, not the reason...school killed it before they had hired the new coach.

 

And, thank you, and I enjoyed your update in the alumni magazine in hockey gear several months ago...and I have to assume it was rollredroll you described meeting on the bus to the Moeller game.

 

Yes, that would be me on both counts. Alas, the end of hockey is somewhere between here and the horizon. I just finished rehab on my second hockey related shoulder surgery, and a routine drive into the boards became a potentially much serious issue when the gate opened, and i wound up speared on the door to the player's bench.

 

No trips to see MBA play on the road for me this year; I'm planning to see the MBA-Ensworth game at home this year. I think it will be my first home game at MBA in 15 years.

[KWoodroof]

This is certainly not an accusation or scurrilous gossip. Where did you go to law school? Oh and it's not insinuation and innuendo either. It is simple curiosity. Lots of teams in all of the various categories are well coached, and are well disciplined. As far as tradition goes, my son is playing on a team that my great-grandfather played on. Do you mean you have no young women at your school? Put your evidence on the table. Answer the questions in my earlier post, please? Lots of schools had winning traditions in the years before real competition.

 

In thinking about the point that you raised here, I think what separates MBA teams from others that are well disciplined and well-coached is that we choose to be there, and from the earliest days at MBA, they remind us that we're part of a very special heritage; it doesn't belong to us, we're just the caretakers. There are only a handful of programs in Tennessee who have a picture of their 1899 football team. I'm not sure I can quantify it any further than that. It's something intangible. It's certainly not a matter of us having better athletes; we put a fairly low number of football players into Div I college programs. The few that go on to play in college are normally at Sewanee, Rhodes, Washington&Lee (i.e., Div III), or Ivy League schools: at one point we had three starters at Yale.

 

Oh, and no law school for me. I'm a retired cop. I did, however, stay at a Holiday Inn once. Perhaps that's it.

[rollredroll]

Do you mean you have no young women at your school?

 

 

I glossed over this question until FTDWoodroof addressed it.

 

I will try to ask this as politely as possible: if you had to ask what the gender composition of MBA is, how would you expect any of us to reasonably take you seriously about your opinions on how MBA populates its student body?

 

I'll refer to a previous post of mine. Many people who question/have something against DII schools don't even live close enough to know anything substantive about how those schools operate. This is a prime example - actually one to the nth degree, as most detractors at least know that MBA is all-male. You can disregard my previous "full disclosure" question; I think you just answered it.

 

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BRBB - KW and I did meet at the Moeller game. I had gone up earlier with the family to take in a Reds game the night before, so we met at the stadium. It was an extremely hot day, but the result was well worth it.

[KWoodroof]

I glossed over this question until FTDWoodroof addressed it.

 

I will try to ask this as politely as possible: if you had to ask what the gender composition of MBA is, how would you expect any of us to reasonably take you seriously about your opinions on how MBA populates its student body?

 

I'll refer to a previous post of mine. Many people who question/have something against DII schools don't even live close enough to know anything substantive about how those schools operate. This is a prime example - actually one to the nth degree, as most detractors at least know that MBA is all-male. You can disregard my previous "full disclosure" question; I think you just answered it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

BRBB - KW and I did meet at the Moeller game. I had gone up earlier with the family to take in a Reds game the night before, so we met at the stadium. It was an extremely hot day, but the result was well worth it.

 

Certainll the trip to Cincinatti will always be very special to me. I've known about Moeller's program since i was 15, and it was a great thrill to see them play, even if they weren't as strong a team as they've been in the past. And to see such an excellent MBA effort (although i knew that fumbled punt snap was a symptom of a bigger issue) certainly made the trip (three hour plane trip, followed a 3:30 wake-up to be on the bus by 4:30 for 6 hrs) worth it.

[ahapplet]

what's always fascinating to me is the number, over the years, of D1 supporters who feel the need to drop into to D2 threads and offer up their (unsolicited) opinions about D2 competition, teams, etc. And let us know what they think about us. Maybe at some point some D2 supporter has done the same, but I haven't seen it. Even though we are the ones constantly on the defensive about these sorts of things, we are by far the more restrained group. Of course, we all have our opinions on what a watered down joke D1 is, but assuredly you won't find us trolling the D1 boards looking for opportunities to share that with them.

 

Here's the deal...we were all very happy competing together with the public schools for decades and decades. There wasn't rampant rule breaking. There was properly adminstered financial aid (same as today)...and you know what? We won precisely the percentage of state titles that our membership accounted for in 3A. So as KW has noted many times, if we were cheating, we certainly weren't very good at it. There is no, "play by the rules, and come back to D1." The TSSAA woke up one morning and (at the behest of several cry-babies) changed the rules in such a way that would have required us to essentially blow up our schools and start over in order to keep playing in D1. Sports aren't so important to us that we'd shutter financial aid that we've been awarding for decades (mainly to non athletes), or telling the student body "only rich kids not on financial aid can come out for the team." It is (and was) a complete non-starter, which is precisely the reason the architects of D2 (not us, by the way) chose it as the basis for the league. Because they knew it was the only sure-fire way to banish us for good. There couldn't be a multiplier because we were all for the most part playing with a de facto multiplier.

 

It is what it is...I as an MBA fan respect those schools in D1 (i.e., Ravenwood, Independence, Smyrna, Lavergne, etc.) who do care about quality, fun, local games and put us on their schedules...those who expect and get great games. Otherwise, D2 is imperfect, and the attendance and fan interest is a reflection of this crappy league the TSSAA dumped us into 10 years ago (imagine if the TSSAA imposed the same thing on 10 random D1 teams scattered all over the state...talk about disastrous attendance. Any thoughtful person can appreciate how well we have held up in that regard). I'm content that we have a great school that does things the right way in every regard, and well, you can't have everything in this era of pettiness and jealousy...so we make the best of it. We have 3 great local rivalries in BA, EHS, and FRHS that will be fun for years to come. There won't be any 5-year 70 game winning streaks in D2, that's for sure.

 

 

 

What is fascinating to me is that the Division II supporters keep responding to me. I don't understand why several of you are so defensive. Woodroof is nice though and interesting to talk to about the subject. My opinion was solicited, which you would find out if you read a few passages back. Someone said something about no Division I supporter engaging in the conversation. You are welcomed to share all about how "watered down" you consider

Division I to be on the rest of the football boards and I think many would enjoy your comments. Your comments in the second and third paragraph are the points I have been trying to make. It just doesn't seem that there is much interest in Division II football and you explained why very clearly above. Now as far as me being on this board, do you really want to reinforce the exclusive and snooty stereotype that some have about private schools? What do you mean by this era of pettiness and jealously? That is a very interesting comment. Hey, give me a break. It's not often that I get to converse with the upper, upper classes.

[big red big blue]

What is fascinating to me is that the Division II supporters keep responding to me. I don't understand why several of you are so defensive. Woodroof is nice though and interesting to talk to about the subject. My opinion was solicited, which you would find out if you read a few passages back. Someone said something about no Division I supporter engaging in the conversation. You are welcomed to share all about how "watered down" you consider

Division I to be on the rest of the football boards and I think many would enjoy your comments. Your comments in the second and third paragraph are the points I have been trying to make. It just doesn't seem that there is much interest in Division II football and you explained why very clearly above. Now as far as me being on this board, do you really want to reinforce the exclusive and snooty stereotype that some have about private schools? What do you mean by this era of pettiness and jealously? That is a very interesting comment. Hey, give me a break. It's not often that I get to converse with the upper, upper classes.

 

 

you're right...I mean, why respond? If someone walks around thinking the earth is flat, and the sky is green and the grass is blue, what concern is it of mine? That doesn't affect me in any way. People say dumb and crazy stuff around me every day...cab drivers, homeless people, hotdog vendors....and my life chugs along just fine. But for whatever reason when I see that nonsense posted on this topic, I can't help but respond. But the better choice would be to let that stuff speak for itself.

[ahapplet]

Please elaborate on "real competition"

 

 

 

I meant when African Americans began playing and competing with all. My Father was recruited by 2, Divison I southeastern schools in the early 50's, but he always said he wouldn't have even been considered by these schools had African Americans been allowed to play. He wasn't as fast or as skilled, although he was 6'5" and a decent football player. African Americans took football to another level. It became a faster, more competive game. Don't you agree?

[ahapplet]

you're right...I mean, why respond? If someone walks around thinking the earth is flat, and the sky is green and the grass is blue, what concern is it of mine? That doesn't affect me in any way. People say dumb and crazy stuff around me every day...cab drivers, homeless people, hotdog vendors....and my life chugs along just fine. But for whatever reason when I see that nonsense posted on this topic, I can't help but respond. But the better choice would be to let that stuff speak for itself.

 

 

True, but that would be so much less fun for me. I was going to save this quote for rockin red roll, but it applies to you, too. It is from a book, called Aftermath, by Peter Robinson, in case you would like to read it. It is a murder mystery set in England, and I read it last night. Here it is: "He had the kind of arrogant, self-important bearing that cried out for pricking." Sooooo much fun.