Franklin Vs. Centennial

[longhornshookem]

Listen "Longhornshookem" if you want to personally take on every comment, and turn them into your own personal argument. Go ahead and be my guest. But do this with the understanding that some of us will continue coming back asking the new question, and posing the new challenge.

Now do you see the fallacy in your very own argument. Maybe you do not, sometimes you can be to close to the heart of the argument to be able to reason properly. On one side, you defend a young growing QB, whose struggles have been pointed out and questioned. People have asked why this kid (and I do mean kid in the purest sense) is being asked to throw the ball so much. Now maybe people are asking the question to vaguely. Maybe it should be proposed in a different light, maybe people should ask it as follows; "why doesn't he throw out of Play Action more often?" "why doesn't Franklin set the run up in order to open the passing game up?" "why doesn't Franklin set-up in double TEs in order for maximum protection?" But they don't ask these questions, they simply ask "why is he throwing the ball so much?" And you respond with the defensive claim of, he is getting his chance to work out the kinks now against non-district teams before the schedule thickens up with important play-off implicating games (but you do not phrase it like that either). You talk about a growth process.

Now people ask you why they do not see more #4, #5, and #2 running with the ball out of the backfield. And you argue against these claims by saying that the Offensive line is not ready. The Offensive line is not able to give these running backs the chance to run across, through, and over the opposition. You claim the inability of the offensive line, in fact you claim the same inability that people impose on your QB (and yes, I do say your QB because you have taken it upon yourself to defend him in every action). But yet you do not think that the offensive line should get the same chance to "work the kinks out". You simply say they are in-able. Why don't the 5 offensive linemen get the same chance to stumble around before the pace quickens?

I am not the enemy, I am just trying to clarify a repetitive argument that is frankly getting ignorantly annoying.

 

I defend the QB AND the passing game. I defend it because someone has to, everyone is so down on it that people dont realize there is improvement after week 0. I do see talent at the receiver position. As far as my comments about the coaches throwing more in a real game still stands. Experience is what a 15 year old sophmore lacks and it might be good to provide that experience in games that wont kill you in the long run... they are 2-0 so it hasnt. I never spoke of the inability of the offensive line, but rather their inconsistency. They are not as good as last year and they are young as well. You ask, "shouldnt the offensive line get the same chance to work the kinks out?". They do... on every play. Look, its not like the offensive line is dead in pass protection and, in my opinion, have to work on that as much as the running game. They have to check for blitzing linebackers and have to know how can they help in the certain protection and so on. So, really they are getting work on every play. Your constant nagging of the offensive production is just as annoying. I wont ever see it your way. So, you probably just ought to get used to the fact that I am never going to. Thats why there are always two sides to a debate. In fact, your idea of running a football program is ignorantly annoying. You believe because a team has 3 great running backs they should automatically drop the pass and focus on the run, as you said, like Oakland. I simply stated we dont have the personnel for it, which we dont. I have never heard of coach TOTALLY ditching one side of the offensive game plan. So, that idea right there shows your weak football theory.

 

Relax, sit back, and just enjoy a good high school game tomorrow night. I will take fbforme's advice and I will chill but I do think people should chill on the offense as it is still week 2.

 

GOOD LUCK REBELS CANT WAIT FOR TOMORROW NIGHT!!!!! FUN ON FRIDAY NIGHT AND COLLEGE ON SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WilcoShotgunner]

Thank you Wilcoisthebest That was the best summation that there could have been surrounding this subject. And Longhorns, take out your note book because you just politely got schooled.

 

The main point(s) is two fold with this argument #1 - the offensive line should have been first and foremost in being addressed if this offense is not being productive. They are the ones that should be "getting the reps" in order to make the entire offense productive. And you just showed your football ignorance by stating that they are getting work by their pass pro. Pur-lease, no way in h - e - double hockey sticks does that make one bit of sense. Which brings us to point #2 - you don't establish the pass to set up the run. Have you ever heard anyone ever make that statement with regards to football? (Maybe on a football bloopers video) No, it is always establish the run to set up the pass. ESTABLISH THE RUN TO SET UP THE PASS. You know what happens when you rely on the pass too much? Just reference the Sugar bowl from two years ago between Georgia and Hawaii. Ask June Jones how that one felt. I bet he couldn't sit down for a week.

 

You have now been served by the Wilco Trifecta. Have an amazing day and good luck to the Rebels tomorrow night!!

[retired rebel 64]

[longhornshookem]

Thank you Wilcoisthebest That was the best summation that there could have been surrounding this subject. And Longhorns, take out your note book because you just politely got schooled.

 

The main point(s) is two fold with this argument #1 - the offensive line should have been first and foremost in being addressed if this offense is not being productive. They are the ones that should be "getting the reps" in order to make the entire offense productive. And you just showed your football ignorance by stating that they are getting work by their pass pro. Pur-lease, no way in h - e - double hockey sticks does that make one bit of sense. Which brings us to point #2 - you don't establish the pass to set up the run. Have you ever heard anyone ever make that statement with regards to football? (Maybe on a football bloopers video) No, it is always establish the run to set up the pass. ESTABLISH THE RUN TO SET UP THE PASS. You know what happens when you rely on the pass too much? Just reference the Sugar bowl from two years ago between Georgia and Hawaii. Ask June Jones how that one felt. I bet he couldn't sit down for a week.

 

You have now been served by the Wilco Trifecta. Have an amazing day and good luck to the Rebels tomorrow night!!

 

HAHAHAHAH UNBELIEVABLE!!!! All I can say is unbelievable. I have never heard anyone say that pass pro is not a rep for the offensive line... haha so I guess the screens arent reps as well for linemen . Have you been to a football practice? For some programs that requires the most attention. They break it down with one on one's (OL vs. DL) and then bring it to group to acount for passing off or keying people when backers blitz. Pffffffffff... screens are another matter! Now, the linemen have to run out and get guys that are smaller and faster than them AND have to get the right people. YEAH... your right that doesnt sound like a rep. So, YES THEy GET REPS EVERYTIME THEY TAKE A SNAP. Pass pro is a major concern for balanced teams. SOOOO, Texas Tech... your telling me their a run first team pass second, Pur-lease. Yeah Texas Tech relied on the pass too much, . Their offensive production was amazing. Do you know what David Cutcliffe started out every game with? It was play action deep, and it was always somewhere in the first series. He wanted the defense to know that if you try to pack it in for the run, that he was gonna test you deep and you better be careful. Even if it was incomplete, the defense still has to respect it. I know why your WilcoShotgunner... you ve been shotgunnin too many . Start counting how many people that are inside the tackles and see how many you have blocking. Do the numbers.

 

GO REBELS!!!!!!!!!!! Stick with your game and keep working hard!!

[jrpfhs21]

It's gameday eve!

 

Let's go Rebels. Just keep playing solid football. You got this one!

[Crony]

Run the ball, pass the ball, and chalk up a W. Let's go Rebels!!!!

[wilcofootball]

HAHAHAHAH UNBELIEVABLE!!!! All I can say is unbelievable. I have never heard anyone say that pass pro is not a rep for the offensive line... haha so I guess the screens arent reps as well for linemen . Have you been to a football practice? For some programs that requires the most attention. They break it down with one on one's (OL vs. DL) and then bring it to group to acount for passing off or keying people when backers blitz. Pffffffffff... screens are another matter! Now, the linemen have to run out and get guys that are smaller and faster than them AND have to get the right people. YEAH... your right that doesnt sound like a rep. So, YES THEy GET REPS EVERYTIME THEY TAKE A SNAP. Pass pro is a major concern for balanced teams. SOOOO, Texas Tech... your telling me their a run first team pass second, Pur-lease. Yeah Texas Tech relied on the pass too much, . Their offensive production was amazing. Do you know what David Cutcliffe started out every game with? It was play action deep, and it was always somewhere in the first series. He wanted the defense to know that if you try to pack it in for the run, that he was gonna test you deep and you better be careful. Even if it was incomplete, the defense still has to respect it. I know why your WilcoShotgunner... you ve been shotgunnin too many . Start counting how many people that are inside the tackles and see how many you have blocking. Do the numbers.

 

GO REBELS!!!!!!!!!!! Stick with your game and keep working hard!!

 

The only probelm with your argument is... a pass block is nothing like a run block. An offensive lineman does not sit back and wait for the defense to come on a run play. We are talking about a difference between a first step forward and a retreat... and anyone that has common football sense knows the first step decides the play. So no, running pass plays over and over has no effect on their lackluster run blocking, which explains why they aren't getting better.

[longhornshookem]

HAHAHAHAH UNBELIEVABLE!!!! All I can say is unbelievable. I have never heard anyone say that pass pro is not a rep for the offensive line... haha so I guess the screens arent reps as well for linemen . Have you been to a football practice? For some programs that requires the most attention. They break it down with one on one's (OL vs. DL) and then bring it to group to acount for passing off or keying people when backers blitz. Pffffffffff... screens are another matter! Now, the linemen have to run out and get guys that are smaller and faster than them AND have to get the right people. YEAH... your right that doesnt sound like a rep. So, YES THEy GET REPS EVERYTIME THEY TAKE A SNAP. Pass pro is a major concern for balanced teams. SOOOO, Texas Tech... your telling me their a run first team pass second, Pur-lease. Yeah Texas Tech relied on the pass too much, . Their offensive production was amazing. Do you know what David Cutcliffe started out every game with? It was play action deep, and it was always somewhere in the first series. He wanted the defense to know that if you try to pack it in for the run, that he was gonna test you deep and you better be careful. Even if it was incomplete, the defense still has to respect it. I know why your WilcoShotgunner... you ve been shotgunnin too many . Start counting how many people that are inside the tackles and see how many you have blocking. Do the numbers.

 

GO REBELS!!!!!!!!!!! Stick with your game and keep working hard!!

 

The only probelm with your argument is... a pass block is nothing like a run block. An offensive lineman does not sit back and wait for the defense to come on a run play. We are talking about a difference between a first step forward and a retreat... and anyone that has common football sense knows the first step decides the play. So no, running pass plays over and over has no effect on their lackluster run blocking, which explains why they aren't getting better.

 

IT IS A REP REGARDLESS BROTHER!!! I never said a pass block was like a run block. Go back and read my posts and you will never ever see me mention that. Then, go back and read YOUR argument. You said a pass block is not a rep and insinuated that because when they are pass blocking, which I am pretty sure they are slightly over on the run side vs. pass... slightly, the OL is not getting reps and I called bull crap. That was the argument. You are right about one thing though... and that is the first step matters. Doesnt matter which one it is, either front or back (retreat which you put) is all important. OL is not getting better... again it would have helped if you went to the game. The longest journey started with a single step. Sometimes a small gain is a big gain. Not much better this time either "Wilco Trifecta". Looking forward to my next lesson .

[jrpfhs21]

HAHAHAHAH UNBELIEVABLE!!!! All I can say is unbelievable. I have never heard anyone say that pass pro is not a rep for the offensive line... haha so I guess the screens arent reps as well for linemen . Have you been to a football practice? For some programs that requires the most attention. They break it down with one on one's (OL vs. DL) and then bring it to group to acount for passing off or keying people when backers blitz. Pffffffffff... screens are another matter! Now, the linemen have to run out and get guys that are smaller and faster than them AND have to get the right people. YEAH... your right that doesnt sound like a rep. So, YES THEy GET REPS EVERYTIME THEY TAKE A SNAP. Pass pro is a major concern for balanced teams. SOOOO, Texas Tech... your telling me their a run first team pass second, Pur-lease. Yeah Texas Tech relied on the pass too much, . Their offensive production was amazing. Do you know what David Cutcliffe started out every game with? It was play action deep, and it was always somewhere in the first series. He wanted the defense to know that if you try to pack it in for the run, that he was gonna test you deep and you better be careful. Even if it was incomplete, the defense still has to respect it. I know why your WilcoShotgunner... you ve been shotgunnin too many . Start counting how many people that are inside the tackles and see how many you have blocking. Do the numbers.

 

GO REBELS!!!!!!!!!!! Stick with your game and keep working hard!!

 

The only probelm with your argument is... a pass block is nothing like a run block. An offensive lineman does not sit back and wait for the defense to come on a run play. We are talking about a difference between a first step forward and a retreat... and anyone that has common football sense knows the first step decides the play. So no, running pass plays over and over has no effect on their lackluster run blocking, which explains why they aren't getting better.

 

I saw a definite improvement from Week 0 to Week 1 on the O-Line. They are getting the reps. Do you think that these boys just don't go to practice?

[Wilcoisthebest]

Once again "longhorns" you have mis-interperated my argument. You think that I am initiating a full-on assault on the passing-game (and every player associated with that aspect of the game). As where you have expressed that Franklin is trying to not a be a one-dimensional team, and develop a passing game to some degree. In an effort to be more "balanced" (as you put it). I would counter your side of the argument that Franklin is not trying to "develop" a passing game. They are trying to "force" a passing game. And maybe, just maybe, Franklin does not have the tools & weapons to effectively develop an extremely effective passing game. But the people behind the scenes at Franklin seem heck-bent on forcing and imagining this into existence.

Now let me please address the concerns at the QB position. I understand that this is a young kid. I understand that he is a Sophomore. And I think that he may have an unlimited level of potential (every kid has unlimited potential with enough hard work). He has shown that he can throw a decent ball. But please understand that being a QB is more than simply throwing a tight spiral. There are many aspects to this game and QB is no different. But I pity this poor kid, because it is in these technical aspects that he is lacking. His discrepincies fall under the following categories (and I am going to be as descriptive as possible to avoid miss-communication); He does not have any type of "drive step" to get out from under center, He has poor over-all foot-work when dropping back to pass, He has slow feet when rolling out of the pocket, he does not step into any of his throws, His elbows are incredibly low when he releases the ball. Basically I am saying that the talent & potential may be there but the fine-tuning & technique is not. And these are the areas that I have not seen improvement in from the first scrimmage until now. And I do not fault the kid, in fact I feel quite sorry for him. Because he apparently does not have the proper coaching in order to affect these areas of concern. I feel bad because the kid has not been put in an atmosphere where he can strive and improve as a QB.

I will give you a minute to digest this...

You are the type of person who looks at TD/ INT ratios (you do understand ratios right?...) and completion percentages. That is probably how you quantify success and improvement. I would challenge you to expand your horizons and observe the other minute influences behind the game of football next time you sit down to watch a game. Basically I am challenging for you to expand you football intellect... you never know you might learn something.

[faninthestand]

Longhorn and Wilco - meet up at halftime tonite and settle this live - one suggestion, start by listening to each others points and respect the fact the they may be differrent than your own - but may still have validity.

 

This string has become a boor.

 

Let's here about Centennial a little, or how about matchups, or tendancies......

[longhornshookem]

Listen "Longhornshookem" if you want to personally take on every comment, and turn them into your own personal argument. Go ahead and be my guest. But do this with the understanding that some of us will continue coming back asking the new question, and posing the new challenge.

Now do you see the fallacy in your very own argument. Maybe you do not, sometimes you can be to close to the heart of the argument to be able to reason properly. On one side, you defend a young growing QB, whose struggles have been pointed out and questioned. People have asked why this kid (and I do mean kid in the purest sense) is being asked to throw the ball so much. Now maybe people are asking the question to vaguely. Maybe it should be proposed in a different light, maybe people should ask it as follows; "why doesn't he throw out of Play Action more often?" "why doesn't Franklin set the run up in order to open the passing game up?" "why doesn't Franklin set-up in double TEs in order for maximum protection?" But they don't ask these questions, they simply ask "why is he throwing the ball so much?" And you respond with the defensive claim of, he is getting his chance to work out the kinks now against non-district teams before the schedule thickens up with important play-off implicating games (but you do not phrase it like that either). You talk about a growth process.

Now people ask you why they do not see more #4, #5, and #2 running with the ball out of the backfield. And you argue against these claims by saying that the Offensive line is not ready. The Offensive line is not able to give these running backs the chance to run across, through, and over the opposition. You claim the inability of the offensive line, in fact you claim the same inability that people impose on your QB (and yes, I do say your QB because you have taken it upon yourself to defend him in every action). But yet you do not think that the offensive line should get the same chance to "work the kinks out". You simply say they are in-able. Why don't the 5 offensive linemen get the same chance to stumble around before the pace quickens?

I am not the enemy, I am just trying to clarify a repetitive argument that is frankly getting ignorantly annoying.

 

I defend the QB AND the passing game. I defend it because someone has to, everyone is so down on it that people dont realize there is improvement after week 0. I do see talent at the receiver position. As far as my comments about the coaches throwing more in a real game still stands. Experience is what a 15 year old sophmore lacks and it might be good to provide that experience in games that wont kill you in the long run... they are 2-0 so it hasnt. I never spoke of the inability of the offensive line, but rather their inconsistency. They are not as good as last year and they are young as well. You ask, "shouldnt the offensive line get the same chance to work the kinks out?". They do... on every play. Look, its not like the offensive line is dead in pass protection and, in my opinion, have to work on that as much as the running game. They have to check for blitzing linebackers and have to know how can they help in the certain protection and so on. So, really they are getting work on every play. Your constant nagging of the offensive production is just as annoying. I wont ever see it your way. So, you probably just ought to get used to the fact that I am never going to. Thats why there are always two sides to a debate. In fact, your idea of running a football program is ignorantly annoying. You believe because a team has 3 great running backs they should automatically drop the pass and focus on the run, as you said, like Oakland. I simply stated we dont have the personnel for it, which we dont. I have never heard of coach TOTALLY ditching one side of the offensive game plan. So, that idea right there shows your weak football theory.

 

Relax, sit back, and just enjoy a good high school game tomorrow night. I will take fbforme's advice and I will chill but I do think people should chill on the offense as it is still week 2.

 

GOOD LUCK REBELS CANT WAIT FOR TOMORROW NIGHT!!!!! FUN ON FRIDAY NIGHT AND COLLEGE ON SATURDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I put this up AGAIN to so that you could re-read your post and my response. I believe I got your point. For sake of the thread I am done... this horse is beat up. Agree to disagree. I will never see it your way and you will never see it mine.

 

GOOD LUCk REBELS GAME NIGHT!!!!!!