40 times...

[innocent bystander]

Let us take this time since the nfl combine is wrapping up and since it is relatively slow on this board to revisit an age-old dilema.....mythical 40 times. Down through the years people have consistenly inflated and overexagerated various players' 40 yard dash times. For whatever reason; it's their kid, player, or even themselves making the claim...almost always these times are grossly inflated.

 

Bottom line.....just because a kid is the fastest player on a team doesn't mean he runs a 4.4. I would go as far as to say there are less than 5 kids in the state of TN that run a legitimate 4.5 or slower. Go ahead and bash this logic and say your kid or some player on team "X" was timed at a 4.3 or 4.4.

 

Exhibit A - 2010 NFL Combine.....the best of the best 300 players from College football.

 

7 running backs posted a 4.50 or slower - only 2 sub 4.4

9 receivers posted a sub 4.49 time - only 1 sub 4.4

1 Tight end posted a time less than 4.55 (which was a crazy 4.4 for a TE - I guess he will be Oakland's 1st round pick)

7 Corners and 3 Safeties ran sub 4.5's but none were under 4.43

1 Specialist (Holliday - LSU) ran a 4.34

 

Exhibit B - University of Florida is just as bad at inflating 40 times, so it is not isolated to high schools.

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/b ... aaf,225322

 

The mighty Gators listed Joe Haden at 4.33......but the problem was when he got to the combine - he could only manage a 4.57 and 4.6. On UF's board, they had 9 guys listed at sub 4.4. There were only 4 guys at the combine who were sub 4.4 - out of the best 300 players in college football.....hmmmmm?

 

The moral of the story..... In high school, 4.6 is fast. Don't overestimate 40 times or else kids will get a skewed image of reality. Don't you think Mr. Haden would have liked to known that he wasn't a 4.3 guy. If he knew he was a 4.5+ guy, he could have worked a little harder to refine it and the expectations wouldn't have been so high. Now, instead of a top 10 pick he will slide down much later...costing him a good bit of money.

 

That is all.....begin the bashing.

[SouthKnoxPrince]

Oh my!What a can of worms to open!! I totally agree with you. I have heard and read on rivals and scout about high school kids running sub 4.4s. I saw a story where last year, according to Rivals and Scout, there were over 200 kids in the 2009 class that ran under 4.4 in the 40. At that time, only 187 had clocked 4.4 or lower in the HISTORY of the NFL combine. In Tennessee, at least east Tennessee, 4.6 is moving. But it is not just the kids, its the parents and even COACHES. I know a kid whose coach said in a TV interview that he had run 4.4 in the forty, but the kid could not break 11.4 in the 100 meters in track. THis just does not compute.

[allabouttheO]

Let us take this time since the nfl combine is wrapping up and since it is relatively slow on this board to revisit an age-old dilema.....mythical 40 times. Down through the years people have consistenly inflated and overexagerated various players' 40 yard dash times. For whatever reason; it's their kid, player, or even themselves making the claim...almost always these times are grossly inflated.

 

Bottom line.....just because a kid is the fastest player on a team doesn't mean he runs a 4.4. I would go as far as to say there are less than 5 kids in the state of TN that run a legitimate 4.5 or slower. Go ahead and bash this logic and say your kid or some player on team "X" was timed at a 4.3 or 4.4.

 

Exhibit A - 2010 NFL Combine.....the best of the best 300 players from College football.

 

7 running backs posted a 4.50 or slower - only 2 sub 4.4

9 receivers posted a sub 4.49 time - only 1 sub 4.4

1 Tight end posted a time less than 5.5 (which was a crazy 4.4 for a TE - I guess he will be Oakland's 1st round pick)

7 Corners and 3 Safeties ran sub 4.5's but none were under 4.43

1 Specialist (Holliday - LSU) ran a 4.34

 

Exhibit B - University of Florida is just as bad at inflating 40 times, so it is not isolated to high schools.

 

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/b ... aaf,225322

 

The mighty Gators listed Joe Haden at 4.33......but the problem was when he got to the combine - he could only manage a 4.57 and 4.6. On UF's board, they had 9 guys listed at sub 4.4. There were only 4 guys at the combine who were sub 4.4 - out of the best 300 players in college football.....hmmmmm?

 

The moral of the story..... In high school, 4.6 is fast. Don't overestimate 40 times or else kids will get a skewed image of reality. Don't you think Mr. Haden would have liked to known that he wasn't a 4.3 guy. If he knew he was a 4.5+ guy, he could have worked a little harder to refine it and the expectations wouldn't have been so high. Now, instead of a top 10 pick he will slide down much later...costing him a good bit of money.

 

That is all.....begin the bashing.

Thanks so much for the info...my son runs a 4.6 and I was wondering how that actually measured up.

[CoverZero]

I agree to an extent. It all depends on how they are timed to me. Laser time is always a notch slower than the stopwatch. To me a 40yd dash means absolutely nothing. It's all about explosiveness on the football field. I have seen many players have 40 times that aren't anything impressive, but when you put them on the field the kids can flat out play. If someone is speaking of a 4.5 or lower 40, bottom line, the kid is fast straight ahead. I don't regularly watch players at any level on the football field run a 40yd dash on a regular basis. I'm much more interested in shuttle drills with change of direction.

[Rebeltothecore]

I agree to an extent. It all depends on how they are timed to me. Laser time is always a notch slower than the stopwatch. To me a 40yd dash means absolutely nothing. It's all about explosiveness on the football field. I have seen many players have 40 times that aren't anything impressive, but when you put them on the field the kids can flat out play. If someone is speaking of a 4.5 or lower 40, bottom line, the kid is fast straight ahead. I don't regularly watch players at any level on the football field run a 40yd dash on a regular basis. I'm much more interested in shuttle drills with change of direction.

 

I agree with you-----but the reality is that what you and I like does not matter one bit. College recruiting, for the most part, is about 40 speed. All the vertical jump, shuttle run, L-run, etc statistics is good only for differentiating among the 4.4 and 4.5 guys. Game video and highlight tapes are very good if you can get the recruiters to take the time to look, but the fast 40 speeders have recruiters begging for video. Recruiters accept the fact that they are going to let a few good players get away, due to slower 40 speeds, but they "accept" this. The 40 speed is the most used and sometimes "misused" stat in college recruiting, I'm sorry to say.

[bigmoney128]

I have also noticed alot of "football people" with itchy trigger fingers when using a stopwatch.

 

I have seen some times posted that are a joke on here.

 

Also, there is a different speed that some players have when they have some one pursuing them.

 

What's the old joke: I am faster the closer someone gets to me.

[blueangel51]

40 times will always vary especially since nobody uses the same equipment. I have a method that I use when timing that works pretty well and is accurate enough. I set a camera up and film the run. With 30 frames per second it is easy to know the exact time, just have the camera rolling with a wide enough view that when set up you can see the start but have it lined up with the finish line. Place a piece of paper on the screen of the camera or tv however you are doing it and count the frames from initial movement until they break the finish line. If you have 135 frames then you just saw a 4.45-4.55 second run. At most you have a .1 variance. I know it is obviously not practical for instant results but if you want to find a legit time on somebody it will work.

[CoverZero]

40 times will always vary especially since nobody uses the same equipment. I have a method that I use when timing that works pretty well and is accurate enough. I set a camera up and film the run. With 30 frames per second it is easy to know the exact time, just have the camera rolling with a wide enough view that when set up you can see the start but have it lined up with the finish line. Place a piece of paper on the screen of the camera or tv however you are doing it and count the frames from initial movement until they break the finish line. If you have 135 frames then you just saw a 4.45-4.55 second run. At most you have a .1 variance. I know it is obviously not practical for instant results but if you want to find a legit time on somebody it will work.

 

Good method and very creative, but I think you could get closer than .1 second. If you can't you're talking a difference in maybe millions in the league. Just ask Eric Berry and Joe Haden. "Experts" are predicting a huge swing in where these two are taken and that can mean a huge swing in money, all because of their 40 times. I don't think it means as much as other drills, but it must mean something because it can cost a team millions. Oh well, what the heck do I know?

[cougarblack]

I love this topic... most times are a tenth to two-tenths faster than reality because they are hand-timed by most coaches... human error, plus most schools don't have the funds for electronic timing equipment.

The 40 is just a measurement for comparison... it has zero application in regards to football... the best measure of true speed and athleticism is the pro shuttle drill.

The person that started this thread stated that only one tight end at the combine broke 5.5 seconds??? I watched that whole group of tight ends run the 40 and I didn't see a single one run slower than 5.1. The guy who ran in the 4.4s was only 226 lbs and looked like a RB.

[innocent bystander]

I love this topic... most times are a tenth to two-tenths faster than reality because they are hand-timed by most coaches... human error, plus most schools don't have the funds for electronic timing equipment.

The 40 is just a measurement for comparison... it has zero application in regards to football... the best measure of true speed and athleticism is the pro shuttle drill.

The person that started this thread stated that only one tight end at the combine broke 5.5 seconds??? I watched that whole group of tight ends run the 40 and I didn't see a single one run slower than 5.1. The guy who ran in the 4.4s was only 226 lbs and looked like a RB.

 

My bad! Thanks for catching that. It should have read only one TE under 4.55 not 5.5. I went back and edited it.

[Velocitysp]

Many old school coaches watching Prospect Recruiting Video watch number of strides/5 yard distance. This works well for "skill position" players when they break into open field.

Fewer the strides the faster the kid.

The interior Lines on both sides still have to show their worth on film and position specific drills. 40's for these guys only show a degree of athleticism.

 

I disagree with the post about Recruiters "not" watching tape based on a 40 time. I'd hate to lose my job when the Head man asks me "did you watch tape on johnny?", and I say no b/c I was relying on someone's 40 time on the kid. And then the kid plays for your opponent and beats you. Time to look for a new job.

[blueangel51]

Based on your experience what is the desired stride frequency and stride lenght