PRIVATE SCHOOL DOMINANCE

[Coniglio]

The merit system like the EPL uses is a cool concept, but the instability of high school athletics makes this a little unreasonable. In the pros, you can go get another player or two to boost your program.

 

In HS, you could have an awesome team that graduates everybody, and then gets absolutely floored the following year at the top level. This is likely not going to happen in the pros.

 

I'm in favor of one classification.

One state champion, the actual state champion.

It doesn't matter if you are a public school that is finally getting to state in A-AA. In reality, McMinn Central, Dyersburg, and McNairy (and nothing against the girls and their accomplishments this year) are bad teams. More classifications and state champions doesn't make the sport better. It makes us feel good about achieving a watered down award.

 

Are we playing soccer to feel good about ourselves, or are we playing soccer to challenge ourselves to become better players, and better people.

 

If you think the state tournament is a right, public or private, then you don't understand what sport is about.

 

One state champion. It isn't hard.

[Rabble Rouser]

The merit system like the EPL uses is a cool concept, but the instability of high school athletics makes this a little unreasonable. In the pros, you can go get another player or two to boost your program.

 

In HS, you could have an awesome team that graduates everybody, and then gets absolutely floored the following year at the top level. This is likely not going to happen in the pros.

 

I'm in favor of one classification.

One state champion, the actual state champion.

It doesn't matter if you are a public school that is finally getting to state in A-AA. In reality, McMinn Central, Dyersburg, and McNairy (and nothing against the girls and their accomplishments this year) are bad teams. More classifications and state champions doesn't make the sport better. It makes us feel good about achieving a watered down award.

 

Are we playing soccer to feel good about ourselves, or are we playing soccer to challenge ourselves to become better players, and better people.

 

If you think the state tournament is a right, public or private, then you don't understand what sport is about.

 

One state champion. It isn't hard.

Wise beyond his years. Must be parenting.

[bear cat brown]

Currently in the A-AA joint classification, there are 187 public schools (their enrollment is limited to students living in each school's particular zone). There are 38 schools that are able to draw from an unlimited talent pool academically and athletically (33 private schools and 5 magnet schools).

 

No one is surprised that the private and magnet schools dominate A-AA girls soccer among many other sports (essentially 17% of the A-AA schools have a stranglehold on the sport and the 83% that are pure zoned schools typically don't have a prayer).

 

However, in recent years, University School of Jackson, Franklin Road Academy, and Donelson Christian Academy finally had the guts to brave Division II. Has this finally opened up the A-AA state tournament for public schools to have a shot? Notre Dame had the nerve to back out of Division II and return to A-AA. Christian Academy of Knoxville, Chattanooga Christian, and Christ Presbyterian will always desire to bully around the A-AA schools rather than stepping up to the big leagues. But looking at the state brackets, an unprecedented number of zoned public schools actually qualified. Any thoughts?

 

Until last season, does anyone find it incredible that not one of these 187 public schools has ever won a single game at the A-AA soccer state tournament? Last season, Greeneville and Page squared off in the quarterfinals, both public schcols, so something had to give. Greeneville became the first non-magnet public school to ever win a game in the state tourney in A-AA.

 

This season, Greeneville, McNairy Central, McMinn Central, Dyersburg, and Page all qualified for the tournament. I never thought I'd live to see 5 of the 8 spots at state represented by public schools. But was this just a fluke or is it the new trend?

 

McNairy Central and McMinn Central failed to score and Dyersburg had one goal late in a 6-1 loss to Page. Those three publics were clearly outmatched. So Page and Greeneville advanced to face private schools Notre Dame and CAK respectively (Page joining Greeneville as the second public school to win at the state tournament).

 

But the wins by Page and Greeneville came against other public schools so a public school has still never beaten a private school at state. Could it happen tonight? Could #2 Greeneville knock off #4 CAK? Could #5 Page upset #3 Notre Dame?

 

 

Don't forget that the Private school kids drive really nice, expensive cars and have very pretty mommies with store bought,,,,,

 

bcb iii

 

Lighten up Francis

[VolleysoccerDad]

The fact is G its an uneven playing field and you know it, and just cannot admit it still and probably never will. The public schools cannot play 8th graders. Like Ben Holt who you used to beat that same Alcoa team you spoke of as an 8th grader. The private schools recruit just by being private. There are no lines as to how far kids can travel to go to your school. Publics are not afforded that opportunity. Nor do the publics in small schools have the money the privates do to upgrade facilities which aides in recruiting. Privates win 3 state championships a year in soccer as history shows us. Publics win 1. Argue that G!!! One day the Privates will join up with the big dogs like Knox Catholic did and prove they are one of the best, or at least go Div II with schools that are afforded your same opportunities. But beating up on the small schools in the state and blaming it on them not having club is getting old!!!

 

I would dispute the notion that private schools have better facilities than publics. Outside of the MBA's, Baylor's and Webb's of the world, many private schools don't have as nice of facilities as public schools. CAK and Knox Catholic have very modest facilities, as an example. Additionally, they spend less per student than public schools do. Private schools that compete in the public school classifications do so against public schools two or three times their size in some cases, so I don't know how they could be considered as beating up against smaller schools. CAK and Knox Catholic have decided to compete with the public schools because the alternative is to send 25 or more athletic times to Nashville and Chattanooga on a constant basis. There just aren't enough private schools East of Chattanooga to create a decent sized district. There is no unfair advantage for them. On the contrary, there is a built-in disadvantage as was intended by the TSSAA.

 

I think that the reason that public schools don't perform better in A/AA is because soccer is predominently a suburban sport. There just isn't much interest in the more rural and inner-city parts of the state which is where the majority of A/AA is drawn. That's why Williamson County schools perform well and West Knoxville schools perform well, both public and private. I'll bet that the privates get it handed to them in softball in A/AA.

[bigredone83]

I would dispute the notion that private schools have better facilities than publics. Outside of the MBA's, Baylor's and Webb's of the world, many private schools don't have as nice of facilities as public schools. CAK and Knox Catholic have very modest facilities, as an example. Additionally, they spend less per student than public schools do. Private schools that compete in the public school classifications do so against public schools two or three times their size in some cases, so I don't know how they could be considered as beating up against smaller schools. CAK and Knox Catholic have decided to compete with the public schools because the alternative is to send 25 or more athletic times to Nashville and Chattanooga on a constant basis. There just aren't enough private schools East of Chattanooga to create a decent sized district. There is no unfair advantage for them. On the contrary, there is a built-in disadvantage as was intended by the TSSAA.

 

I think that the reason that public schools don't perform better in A/AA is because soccer is predominently a suburban sport. There just isn't much interest in the more rural and inner-city parts of the state which is where the majority of A/AA is drawn. That's why Williamson County schools perform well and West Knoxville schools perform well, both public and private. I'll bet that the privates get it handed to them in softball in A/AA.

 

Right on EastTnref, well stated

[ChattanoogaCannon]

The fact is G its an uneven playing field and you know it, and just cannot admit it still and probably never will. The public schools cannot play 8th graders. Like Ben Holt who you used to beat that same Alcoa team you spoke of as an 8th grader. The private schools recruit just by being private. There are no lines as to how far kids can travel to go to your school. Publics are not afforded that opportunity. Nor do the publics in small schools have the money the privates do to upgrade facilities which aides in recruiting. Privates win 3 state championships a year in soccer as history shows us. Publics win 1. Argue that G!!! One day the Privates will join up with the big dogs like Knox Catholic did and prove they are one of the best, or at least go Div II with schools that are afforded your same opportunities. But beating up on the small schools in the state and blaming it on them not having club is getting old!!!

 

You obviously have never seen Notre Dame's soccer facilities. I haven't either because we don't have any. Signal Mountain High School, a new public school near Chattanooga, has a much better field than the narrow football field we play on. Signal Mountain was very competitive and will continue to be. They happen to have a soccer club on their mountain which will continue to feed their program. East Hamilton is also a new public school which will continue to get better under the leadership of John Millard. They are also loaded with club players.

 

Also, both East Hamilton and Signal Mountain play eighth graders. What other arguments do you have?

Edited November 4, 2010 by ChattanoogaCannon

[bigredone83]

Sorry I have not figured out how to post correctly. But the comments of EastTnref are wise as are those of Valleysoccerdad. Three issues that can be beat into the ground. First of all there is a reason we have Div II, that is for the private schools, as some of them have trouble following the rules of the public schools. Secondly, we can agree that clubs develop players who are on well stocked travel teams and get to play against very tough competition. That means the family of the player must have money, as soccer is not a blue collar sport in this country. Families with money send their kids where? Yep, private schools, and then these private schools will hang out in AA and beat up on the poor rural kids and small public schools whose kids are mainly AYSO as they do not have the money for travel. These young athletes are learning about the game, and also very quickly learn to hate the game when they have to play those kids in the privates, as there is no comparison. I love the relegation idea, but that doesn’t work for the very reason that was stated. One champion never happens. The state will have as many champions as they can, as that is what outs the money in their accounts. In short, I don’t believe we are really interested in developing the game in this country, as we do not reach into the blue collar ranks where we could find the next Rooney or Dzeko. Albeit, we play the sport so some of our better off parents can brag about Susie or Jimmie. Our club systems need sponsorship so that everyone can play, but we can’t get the clubs on the same sheet because those same parents are still controlling everyone. If we could get all the quality kids playing on the same team, the sponsorships would come as the influence is gone. As it is, we will never see that in our lifetime. We are already feeling that outcome as the women’s U17 team was eliminated last year by the Canadians, a very sad day for US soccer, which all starts here in the high schools. So yes, I hate it when the private schools brag about state championships in AA. My hats off to catholic, who joined the AAA and has done very well.

[BigG]

Sorry I have not figured out how to post correctly. But the comments of EastTnref are wise as are those of Valleysoccerdad. Three issues that can be beat into the ground. First of all there is a reason we have Div II, that is for the private schools, as some of them have trouble following the rules of the public schools. Secondly, we can agree that clubs develop players who are on well stocked travel teams and get to play against very tough competition. That means the family of the player must have money, as soccer is not a blue collar sport in this country. Families with money send their kids where? Yep, private schools, and then these private schools will hang out in AA and beat up on the poor rural kids and small public schools whose kids are mainly AYSO as they do not have the money for travel. These young athletes are learning about the game, and also very quickly learn to hate the game when they have to play those kids in the privates, as there is no comparison. I love the relegation idea, but that doesn’t work for the very reason that was stated. One champion never happens. The state will have as many champions as they can, as that is what outs the money in their accounts. In short, I don’t believe we are really interested in developing the game in this country, as we do not reach into the blue collar ranks where we could find the next Rooney or Dzeko. Albeit, we play the sport so some of our better off parents can brag about Susie or Jimmie. Our club systems need sponsorship so that everyone can play, but we can’t get the clubs on the same sheet because those same parents are still controlling everyone. If we could get all the quality kids playing on the same team, the sponsorships would come as the influence is gone. As it is, we will never see that in our lifetime. We are already feeling that outcome as the women’s U17 team was eliminated last year by the Canadians, a very sad day for US soccer, which all starts here in the high schools. So yes, I hate it when the private schools brag about state championships in AA. My hats off to catholic, who joined the AAA and has done very well.

You do understand that Catholic "joined" AAA because their numbers put them in the higher division. It was not a "choice" to go up. The reclassification period put them there. If CAK ever gets to that size, the will go up, as well.

 

You do have some good points, however. South America has GREAT soccer because it is played as a "grass roots" sport. Every kid plays it all the time. You just don't have that here. My daughter plays church league soccer, frankly, because we can't afford the club teams, and I also don't want to travel every weekend.

 

There is talk about developing that kind of "grass roots" league in Knoxville in the inner city and beyond. I would love to see that come to fruition. Contrary to what people might think, I am all for the advancement of Tennessee soccer as a whole, not just the private school's success.

Edited November 4, 2010 by BigG

[MVM]

I say this every year ....He who has the most club players, will WIN. It's not a private vs public debate. Bearden, Ravenwood, Franklin, Farragut, Houston and many other public schools are LOADED with club players. And I know, there are alot of small private schools that would love to have "more or some" club players (ie. Silverdale, Berean, Boyd, Grace) are a few.

 

Greenville(Girls) and Alcoa(Boys) is starting to make a dent in that Suburban vs rural debate. Travel Soccer for the rural HS's only needs someone one to step up and coach and a HS/MS coach to steer players and parents in that direction. I'm starting to see this happen in Warren Co., Cookeville, Livingston.

 

Who would have guessed that I saw alot of my old players as starting freshman on many teams around Chatt. and even one in Knoxville. Yea, my daughter is a senior this year, but at least she had a good freshmen class this year. All it takes is one person or a group of parents to make a difference.......Are You That Person?

[Coniglio]

^ What he said.

 

Or you can be cool and start running more miles than you drive per week.

[DCURTIS]

I think MVM nails it. It's not a public vs private thing. It's club players vs AYSO(or less) players. Pick your poison as to why private schools tend to have a greater number of club players on their rosters...

 

I think we are seeing public schools beginning to make their mark at State because more and more kids are playing club soccer with more and more club teams...

 

The one state one champion won't ever happen so give that up. There is too much money involved, if you consider all sports, for TSSAA to ever reduce the number of champions. That is not saying it is a bad idea at all, just that it is not happening...

 

To me the question remains should privates compete with publics at any HS level? I am not buying that privates are at a competitive disadvantage. My personal opinion is unless you have one state one champion then, no they should not.

[Rabble Rouser]

I think MVM nails it. It's not a public vs private thing. It's club players vs AYSO(or less) players. Pick your poison as to why private schools tend to have a greater number of club players on their rosters...

 

I think we are seeing public schools beginning to make their mark at State because more and more kids are playing club soccer with more and more club teams...

 

The one state one champion won't ever happen so give that up. There is too much money involved, if you consider all sports, for TSSAA to ever reduce the number of champions. That is not saying it is a bad idea at all, just that it is not happening...

 

To me the question remains should privates compete with publics at any HS level? I am not buying that privates are at a competitive disadvantage. My personal opinion is unless you have one state one champion then, no they should not.

I believe you guys that point to the club scene are correct. I would add that soccer has organized itself into a corner. Too many regulations, too much money involved and it has completely forgotten about the rank and file player. It is set up for the elite to be able to travel and be seen. The rest are there to pick up the tab and still more are left at home playing some other sport.