TN AAU Tournament Improvements

[jcddmoon]

My son and I have done more traveling this year than in years past. We wrestled at the Dixie Nationals and at an Illinois Kids Wrestling Federation tournament most recently. The level of wrestling knowledge and competition was outstanding. Also I was very impressed with the way the tournaments were ran. All that being said I think there are many contributing factors to the success of wrestling in these areas.

 

1. More Tournaments: One glaring difference is the amount of tournaments available to compete in each week. These kids are wrestling 2-3 tournaments a week. We all know that mat time is key.

 

2. Track Wrestling: The track wrestling system allows wrestlers to track down the best compition in the area. Using this system in conjunction with the Team GA site further improves the system making it a true one stop shop to find the tournament that suits your wrestlers skill level.

 

3. Wrestling Up: In the TN AAU system the kids can only wrestle up to the next highest age group. In IL and GA the children are allowed up into higher weight groups within there own age group.

 

4. Weight Groups: The weight groups being set up in three pound increments, and not giving an allowance, allows for better competition. In TN AAU if you have a child that is 46.5 he has to move up to the 50 lbs. weight group. In doing so he is now giving up 4.5 pounds that is alot and I think it hinders the quality of the competition in this area.

 

My question is would it be a good idea for us to adapt these changes and if so will we ever do it?

Edited January 3, 2011 by jcddmoon

[411]

First of all you contradict yourself. In one post you say Tn doesn't allow kids to move up a weight class in their age group then in the next you say we should go to 3 lb weight classes because 4.5 lbs is too much? You can wrestle up a weight in Tn just not in the same tournament. The reason is because it slows the tournament down. As far as getting mat time, I'm not sure how we could pull off multiple tournaments a week unless you want to wrestle tournaments on weeknights. If you are with a good program you should be able to get all the mat time you need at practice. If not I would seek out other practice partners and good coaching most importantly. Its a fine line between wrestling enough and burning kids out. We have many kids here in Tennessee who can and do compete with any Kids in the country.

[411]

We simply don't have enough kids to go to 3 lb weight classes unless you want 4 man brackets. I'm not sure track wrestling makes things more competitive but it does help make running a tournament easier. The folder system Knoxville and Nashville uses is very outdated. If you want to know where the best kids are in Tn I would check the top 100 standings and go to the tournament in their area. Chattanooga uses Track for most of it's tournaments

[jcddmoon]

We simply don't have enough kids to go to 3 lb weight classes unless you want 4 man brackets. I'm not sure track wrestling makes things more competitive but it does help make running a tournament easier. The folder system Knoxville and Nashville uses is very outdated. If you want to know where the best kids are in Tn I would check the top 100 standings and go to the tournament in their area. Chattanooga uses Track for most of it's tournaments

 

I see no contradictions to any statements that were made above. I have seen this first hand week after week in USA sanctioned events in IL and GA. The system works. If you allow kids to wrestle up into different weight groups within their own division there will be more than enough children to fill the brackets with the kids wrestling up. If the weights are blocked with no allowance, the most a child would ever give up would be three pounds unless he wrestles up and can handle the weight difference because of his skill level.

 

Also is it really fair for a child that can win or be competetive at the next division to be allowed to wrestle with the kids at the lower level.

 

Additionally it is hard to wrestle a bantam that weighs 45 lbs. up to midgets because they do not have a 45 lbs. weight class. So if you have a 6 year old that could compete or benefit from wrestling up he now gives up 2 years and at least 5 lbs.

 

The Top 100 is not a very good gauge to determine where the best kids in the state are when it doesnt provide there team name, location, or weight class. Additionally some kids on ly wrestle two or threee kids a week and win every week, while others must fight through 16 man brackets or greater, so you really can't tell by Top 100. Trackwrestling ranks the wrestle by the matches he has won and by the opponent he faced to win the match.

 

I just think we should possibly relook some of the rules we have set up within the TNAAU to provide the children with more opportunities to compete.

Edited January 19, 2011 by jcddmoon

[SAC]

Just curious to know what the other coaches in the West Region think about their region having a different set of weigh-ins from the two other advertised... Is it fair for one region to all weigh in only the day of the event, while others have the option to weigh in the night before? I will quote one of our state board members "a Middle School wrestler can easily gain 3-5lbs overnight if they are allowed to weigh the night before; creating a true unfair advantage". If its good for one group shouldn't it be good for all? These are qualifying regional tournaments after all...

 

Take a moment to view the North and East Region flyers... See their times for weigh-ins. Then peer at how the West Region doesn't have an early weigh-in the night before the tournament...

[salterjd]

Just curious to know what the other coaches in the West Region think about their region having a different set of weigh-ins from the two other advertised... Is it fair for one region to all weigh in only the day of the event, while others have the option to weigh in the night before? I will quote one of our state board members "a Middle School wrestler can easily gain 3-5lbs overnight if they are allowed to weigh the night before; creating a true unfair advantage". If its good for one group shouldn't it be good for all? These are qualifying regional tournaments after all...

 

Take a moment to view the North and East Region flyers... See their times for weigh-ins. Then peer at how the West Region doesn't have an early weigh-in the night before the tournament...

 

Since you are quoting me, I would appreciate you putting my statement into the context of the conversation

 

You asked for a Friday night satellite weigh-in for Memphis wrestlers prior to the west region tournament. I told you the West region tournament would then have to offer a Friday weigh-in to all, because a Middle School wrestler can easily gain 3-5lbs overnight if they are allowed to weigh the night before; creating a true unfair advantage (for them at the west region tournament).

 

The weigh-in times for any other region have no impact on the weigh-ins for the West region. On the day of the tournament your kid will not step on the mat against someone who was allowed to weigh-in on Friday. Thus, no advantage gained. If your kid qualifies for state, they will weigh-in at the same exact time as their competitors before the tournament. Again, creating a level playing field.

[jcddmoon]

You shouldn't be asking kids to cut weight at this age anyway. If there weight can't be controlled by a reasonable diet and exercise they probably need to wrestle at the next weight anyway. Cutting weight is probably the biggest contributor to wrestler burn out.

[SAC]

Since you are quoting me, I would appreciate you putting my statement into the context of the conversation

 

You asked for a Friday night satellite weigh-in for Memphis wrestlers prior to the west region tournament. I told you the West region tournament would then have to offer a Friday weigh-in to all, because a Middle School wrestler can easily gain 3-5lbs overnight if they are allowed to weigh the night before; creating a true unfair advantage (for them at the west region tournament).

 

The weigh-in times for any other region have no impact on the weigh-ins for the West region. On the day of the tournament your kid will not step on the mat against someone who was allowed to weigh-in on Friday. Thus, no advantage gained. If your kid qualifies for state, they will weigh-in at the same exact time as their competitors before the tournament. Again, creating a level playing field.

 

Again, I say you have proven my point... Why would a qualifying tournament for the state not have the same rules as all the other qualifying tournaments? You answered my question... A middle school wrestler can can easily gain 3-5lbs overnight if they are allowed to weigh the night before; creating a true unfair advantage, regardless of location. It doesn't matter if its within the same region or in four different regions. In qualifying tournaments, all rules should be the same...

 

This was never about me, our club or our region... This was merely about ensuring every kid qualifying for the TN AAU State Wrestling Tournament was doing so under the same pretenses. I was looking out for any kid who was not given the same chance to weigh-in many hours before they could compete... Nonetheless, this issue will be addressed at the state board meeting in May as everyone else has agreed that this is something in need of changing.

 

And for the record, no one in our club is being pushed to cut weight by ANY of our coaching staff... We preach responsible weight management and healthy eating. What parents do is beyond our control.... Also, THANK YOU to the South Region for participating under the same rules with regards to weigh-ins as we are.

[tmarshall7]

Back to the original post regarding the improvement of TN AAU wrestling.

 

I agree about using Trackwrestling. We used it this year for the first time and it worked great. Trackwrestling is one of the main reasons our tournament ran so smoothly and started on time.

 

I think one program that has caused a lot of mixed feelings in TN AAU is the creation of the Top 100. Before I give my opinion, I want to say that I commend those who created the program for attempting to improve the sport in TN and this in no way is meant as a personal insult, simply my opinion of the program. That being said, I think the Top 100 program should be scrapped. In the last two years too many teams/wrestlers have gotten caught up in "chasing" the Top 100 and are therefore missing opportunities for better wrestling and improvement. The system, in its current form does not necessarily reward the best wrestler. In addition, Top 100 tournaments are not allowed to group weight classes with low numbers. Therefore a wrestler in a weight class with only 2 wrestlers can be awarded the same 1st place points as one who wrestles through a 16 man bracket to win. There is no weight classification within the rankings. Comparing them on the current point scale is apples to oranges. One gold medal does not always equal another. Not to mention the fact of kids who are wrestling up a bracket and are not even scoring in that division's Top 100, who may knock off someone who is. I understand the goal is to promote wrestling within TN but wrestling the same competition over and over doesn't improve one's ability. Most of the Top 100 tournaments feature the same kids. So I know your answer is don't participate, but my point is we try to get the best competition possible for our kids and travel a great deal to do so, when we do wrestle in TN I am very disappointed when a family travelled 3 hours to wrestle one match against the same kid he wrestled last week, because the tournament can't combine classes.

 

The other issue is referees. I understand there will always be someone who complains about referees no matter what, but I believe there needs to be a highly structured training program for all AAU referees. They have done quite well in improving the quality over the last few years and I commend Don, Charlie, and others involved for doing so, but there are still tournaments that use high school wrestlers who make major mistakes. This is not the fault of TN AAU or the officials. I believe we all, as tournament hosts, must commit to using only certified referees. But before we can do that, there needs to be a formal program in place to train the referees--they need to work under the guidance of an experienced referee for several tournaments, not just a few matches, before being thrown to the wolves on their own. And finally, a rating or feedback system for coaches/tournament directors to use with the assigning officials to ensure the quality of the referees and offer advice for improvements once they are working matches on their own.

 

Just my opinion, hope my advice is helpful.

[marshiebaby]

not meant as a complaint i appreciate all that you all have done to establish a wrestling culture in Tennessee... However, being on both sides of bad calls and understanding they do happen and it is understood judgement is an intricate part of the process of being a good ref. Not to mention the volume of matches that the refs are calling during a day is unenviable. I simply hope that Don keeps up the good work in trying to ensure that their is a goal of non bias in these young men. Further I played the top 100 game last year and started again this year, however being exposed to the conditions of top 100 in how it affects and restrains a tournament in trying to create the best test for individual wrestlers and forming a wrestling pool I have stopped chasing the top 100 for my kids. Good idea but needs tweaking, especially when you consider it is not really a by weight accumulation of points but a grouping of age division. It does not tell us anything other than some kids and families in these tough times either have the ability to travel, while some others may not or that some locations are over represented by top 100 tournament ease of access while others would have to sacrifice subtantially to get to these tourneys. Is it really a test of how a kid is doing against his specific competition? I will say (and I am not from Bristol or their club) the Bristol Brawl was the best test i have seen this year for my kids because of the focus to attract out of state kids for our kids to wrestle. Lastly i dont think we need a top 100 without further changes or common sense flexibility for tournament organizers to try to put on the most competetive wrestling environment they can through grouping etc... if needed. Also track wrestling would be a good substitute because kids can see where they stack up and are rewarded and motivated to climb the ranks and love to see there name anywhere in relationship to their accomplishments.

[cchulk]

Please send specific ideas for improving things like Top 100 or other issues to your region directors to present at the Board meetings. Complaints are not helpful with possible solutions.

[tmarshall7]

The Paperless system ran great today at Big Kids State. I would love to see this or Trackwrestling required at all TN events.

 

The competition level was great--we need to find a way to get all the regions competing together more often, there were a lot of great wrestlers from the South and West Regions that our kids (East Region) had not faced this year, those tough matches make everyone better, win or lose.

 

The officiating crew was also very good.