Training Philosophy

[BasicAppreciation]

Now we're getting somewhere. So mykidsdad is right on target. I understand and agree with what you are saying and therefore it seems to me that the weight room is a mixed bag for the high school athlete. In light of these notions it seems that speed work and agility may take presidence. My son graduated a few years ago and I disagreed with the weight training program at his school at the time. I was mum because the coaches produced results. But those results were based on endurance training not so much weight training. My view through his career was that his Martial Arts training was his claim to fame. And now I believe that wholeheartedly. However, that regimen is not for many. High school coaches hands are tied when it comes to weight training...I see that now. My next question is, do you think squatting below horizontal is an accident waiting to happen for the high school athlete?

 

Comp, I believe squatting below horizontal can make injury more potenital. A few degrees below horizontal might not be so bad, but I have seen people train butt to heals, and that puts a lot of strain on the knees and can be a partial cause to torn ligaments especially if heavy weights are used because most kids do not understand that you should not hurry to get horizontal, that it should be slow going down then explode going up.

[SFW]

Comp, I believe squatting below horizontal can make injury more potenital. A few degrees below horizontal might not be so bad, but I have seen people train butt to heals, and that puts a lot of strain on the knees and can be a partial cause to torn ligaments especially if heavy weights are used because most kids do not understand that you should not hurry to get horizontal, that it should be slow going down then explode going up.

Basic, I respectfully disagree about knee injury potential when squatting below parallel. Although, going below parallel does not have to be performed every time, some sets going deep enhance muscle growth and can actually be beneficial to the knees. See this link to the article in the National Strength and Condition Association Journal.

Edited June 8, 2011 by SFW

[mykidsdad]

Basic, I respectfully disagree about knee injury potential when squatting below parallel. Although, going below parallel does not have to be performed every time, some sets going deep enhance muscle growth and can actually be beneficial to the knees. See this link to the article in the National Strength and Condition Association Journal.

 

Supervision, Supervision, Supervision!!!! Loaded big muscles on small tendions + youth is a bad combination. I agree with the articles premise, but even the article stresses under proper supervision, and that is the key. JMO never, ever past parallel unless it's by mistake.

Edited June 8, 2011 by mykidsdad

[compusatman]

Hey guys, good stuff. It's not about who's right or wrong because there really is no such thing but it is about knowledge. I agree that high school kids should not go below horizontal but in college it is essential. I also agree that the motion needs to be slowed down and form concentrated on. As well, I agree the most important aspect is not the amount of weight lifted or the number of reps but the quality of the workout and it's intended outcome. Squats are for one purpose...and that is explosion. So going down should be almost a negative and coming up an explosion. Football is all about explosion. Keep it coming!

Edited June 8, 2011 by compusatman

[BasicAppreciation]

Basic, I respectfully disagree about knee injury potential when squatting below parallel. Although, going below parallel does not have to be performed every time, some sets going deep enhance muscle growth and can actually be beneficial to the knees. See this link to the article in the National Strength and Condition Association Journal.

 

SFW, I do understand where you are coming from, and I do believe that in time with educated and advanced lifters deep squats may be less damaging on the knees. Although there are multiple articles that state deep squats have been clarified not bad for the knees, But even in the areticle you sent me, in Proper form for squat technique, it states to go parallel or slightly below. But im not here to argue that statement, im just stating my opinoin for high school lifting. Most kids are uneducated and only lift because its madatory. Even when supervised, it only takes one time lowering the weight for a kid to go down and never stop going down until the knee pops, or the weight crumbles on top of their shoulders as they hit the ground.

But as we all agree supervision in extremely important, and there are programs that do not do as much supervision or teaching as they should.

[BasicAppreciation]

Hey guys, good stuff. It's not about who's right or wrong because there really is no such thing but it is about knowledge. I agree that high school kids should not go below horizontal but in college it is essential. I also agree that the motion needs to be slowed down and form concentrated on. As well, I agree the most important aspect is not the amount of weight lifted or the number of reps but the quality of the workout and it's intended outcome. Squats are for one purpose...and that is explosion. So going down should be almost a negative and coming up an explosion. Football is all about explosion. Keep it coming!

 

I agree slow going down then explode up, also dead lift is another lift that requires great form or a back could be strained. I mean every thing requires good form, but you see more injuries cause of the big lifts then you do the isolation lifts like curls and such.

Edited June 8, 2011 by BasicAppreciation

[mykidsdad]

I agree slow going down then explode up, also dead lift is another lift that requires great form or a back could be strained. I mean every thing requires good form, but you see more injuries cause of the big lifts then you do the isolation lifts like curls and such.

 

I think a lot of kids are like a lot of adults. When working out they never think about the muscle group they are working. Meaning when doing bumbell incline you need to feel the chest muscle throughtout the rep. Most folk are just going through the motion and think nothing about what is actually happening.

 

Besides everybody knows the guy that grunts the loudest is the strongest, so incourage the kids to mostly work on their grunt and forget the weights.

[compusatman]

I mean, I think we all can agree that the actual weight should be decreased across the board and the concentration be put on form. It can be seen in so many lifts but is glaringly evident in curls...both types, dead lifts, and of course squats. If the trainer demanded clean form in place of maximum poundage it would create strength quicker and not alienate the weaker kids as much. Clean form in my view actually builds more strength because of pure isolation.

[pujo]

Try front squats, you can't go as heavy ,but the form is easier, i also think its a better exercise for football. I also like the 3 days a week with cardio on off days.Got to mix it up all the time and trick you're body, plyometrics are great ,but it don't seem like many people understand how they should be done.got tio be done hard and fast and time to recover from one set to another,twice a week is a plenty. Love this topic ,keep it coming. Nutrition and rest is a must, the 2 most important nutriants are protein and calcium.

Edited June 8, 2011 by pujo

[MountainTroll]

Facinating topic, with many different theories and philosophies, none of which are entirely right or wrong. Unfortunately, few schools have the knowledge, personel, facilities, or time to do it right. Compare the average high school to any college or pro team. If you have 30,50, or 100 players on your squad, it is impossible to cycle all of the players through with appropriate supervision. This why we are seeing so many sports injuries in high school. The players are getting bigger and stronger, thus generating more force, but their bodies are not properly conditioned to handle that amount of force.

 

Take a look at this general overview of proprioceptive training, My link, and you will quickly see how it relates to football. Many coaches are doing proprioceptive training, but don't realize it. A recent study showed that female basketball players can decrease the rate of ACL tears by simply incorporating a couple of quick, simple proprioceptive exercises aimed at the knee into their initial warmup and flexiblility routine each day. Much of what we do with agility drills and position specific drills is actually proprioceptive training. If you have bought into core training (and I hope you have), much of that is also proprioceptive training. If we would all spend a few minutes every day on warm up, flexibility, proprioception, and core strengthening, the rest of our workout would be much more effective and the players would be much less prone to injury.

 

As far as strength training goes, we should really be focusing on POWER. Power is defined as the application of energy per unit of time. (ie. Explosive Strength) That is the essense of football. Not just how strong or fast an athlete is, but how quickly and effectively he can apply his strength and energy to his opponent. Plyometrics (performed properly as Pujo states) help tremendously in developing the quick-twitch muscle fibers that are critical to generating maximal Power.

 

Endurance is equally important and often the determining factor in the fourth quarter. I don't believe you have to specifically work on endurance. If your strength/conditioning and agility/speed programs are properly designed and paced, endurance will develop naturally.

 

Don't forget nutrition/hydration and recovery. It ain't rocket science, but we are dealing with teenage boys, and you have to give them some guidance. Everybody might not agree, but a good bit of science supports the theory that real muscle hypertrophy and development occurs when we are resting, not lifting. The theory goes that muscle fibers are injured during lifting stress. Muscle fiber hypertrophy (ie. growth) occurs during recovery. Therefore, we need to stress the muscles with our lifting programs, but then supply them the proper nutrients (protein, complex carbohydrates, liquid) and time to rebuild and grow stronger. This is why I don't believe in lifting everyday and why athletes who "overwork" plateau.

 

Sorry for rambling. Just wish we all could devote more time and energy to this topic.

[pujo]

Facinating topic, with many different theories and philosophies, none of which are entirely right or wrong. Unfortunately, few schools have the knowledge, personel, facilities, or time to do it right. Compare the average high school to any college or pro team. If you have 30,50, or 100 players on your squad, it is impossible to cycle all of the players through with appropriate supervision. This why we are seeing so many sports injuries in high school. The players are getting bigger and stronger, thus generating more force, but their bodies are not properly conditioned to handle that amount of force.

 

Take a look at this general overview of proprioceptive training, My link, and you will quickly see how it relates to football. Many coaches are doing proprioceptive training, but don't realize it. A recent study showed that female basketball players can decrease the rate of ACL tears by simply incorporating a couple of quick, simple proprioceptive exercises aimed at the knee into their initial warmup and flexiblility routine each day. Much of what we do with agility drills and position specific drills is actually proprioceptive training. If you have bought into core training (and I hope you have), much of that is also proprioceptive training. If we would all spend a few minutes every day on warm up, flexibility, proprioception, and core strengthening, the rest of our workout would be much more effective and the players would be much less prone to injury.

 

As far as strength training goes, we should really be focusing on POWER. Power is defined as the application of energy per unit of time. (ie. Explosive Strength) That is the essense of football. Not just how strong or fast an athlete is, but how quickly and effectively he can apply his strength and energy to his opponent. Plyometrics (performed properly as Pujo states) help tremendously in developing the quick-twitch muscle fibers that are critical to generating maximal Power.

 

Endurance is equally important and often the determining factor in the fourth quarter. I don't believe you have to specifically work on endurance. If your strength/conditioning and agility/speed programs are properly designed and paced, endurance will develop naturally.

 

Don't forget nutrition/hydration and recovery. It ain't rocket science, but we are dealing with teenage boys, and you have to give them some guidance. Everybody might not agree, but a good bit of science supports the theory that real muscle hypertrophy and development occurs when we are resting, not lifting. The theory goes that muscle fibers are injured during lifting stress. Muscle fiber hypertrophy (ie. growth) occurs during recovery. Therefore, we need to stress the muscles with our lifting programs, but then supply them the proper nutrients (protein, complex carbohydrates, liquid) and time to rebuild and grow stronger. This is why I don't believe in lifting everyday and why athletes who "overwork" plateau.

 

Sorry for rambling. Just wish we all could devote more time and energy to this topic.

Great info Troll, 2 sites that are very good are Bodybuilding.com and Crossfit.com. I think crossfit is the fastest growing training out there. They even have crossfit football.

[runtheball]

Weights are ok and are a part,but if a team really wants to be good and win games then run. The fastest and best run conditioned team wins. Speed kills on the highways and the athletic fields. In backyard games you will always take the fastest kid and win same is true in high school football games.