Training Philosophy

[SFW]

Very good topic and discussion so far. Despite some minor differences in philosophy, I see one common theme so far, that is proper supervision and technique. I couldn't agree more that these two areas are the most important and the most neglected in a high school weight room. It's unfortunate that many high school administrations don't put more emphasis on finding a quality strength and conditioning coach. Properly conditioned, strong, fast athletes will simply perform better and be less injury prone no matter what level of talent they possess.

 

As a side note to continue the discussion, take a look at Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 for Football. In my opinion it is a great tool for high school football coaches. It lays out a perfect strength and conditioning program specifically for high school football athletes year round. But, even though it tells a coach how to set up an ideal program, you still need coaches in the weight room that know what they are doing making sure kids are safe and progressing properly.

[mancoverage]

Facinating topic, with many different theories and philosophies, none of which are entirely right or wrong. Unfortunately, few schools have the knowledge, personel, facilities, or time to do it right. Compare the average high school to any college or pro team. If you have 30,50, or 100 players on your squad, it is impossible to cycle all of the players through with appropriate supervision. This why we are seeing so many sports injuries in high school. The players are getting bigger and stronger, thus generating more force, but their bodies are not properly conditioned to handle that amount of force.

 

Take a look at this general overview of proprioceptive training, My link, and you will quickly see how it relates to football. Many coaches are doing proprioceptive training, but don't realize it. A recent study showed that female basketball players can decrease the rate of ACL tears by simply incorporating a couple of quick, simple proprioceptive exercises aimed at the knee into their initial warmup and flexiblility routine each day. Much of what we do with agility drills and position specific drills is actually proprioceptive training. If you have bought into core training (and I hope you have), much of that is also proprioceptive training. If we would all spend a few minutes every day on warm up, flexibility, proprioception, and core strengthening, the rest of our workout would be much more effective and the players would be much less prone to injury.

 

As far as strength training goes, we should really be focusing on POWER. Power is defined as the application of energy per unit of time. (ie. Explosive Strength) That is the essense of football. Not just how strong or fast an athlete is, but how quickly and effectively he can apply his strength and energy to his opponent. Plyometrics (performed properly as Pujo states) help tremendously in developing the quick-twitch muscle fibers that are critical to generating maximal Power.

 

Endurance is equally important and often the determining factor in the fourth quarter. I don't believe you have to specifically work on endurance. If your strength/conditioning and agility/speed programs are properly designed and paced, endurance will develop naturally.

 

Don't forget nutrition/hydration and recovery. It ain't rocket science, but we are dealing with teenage boys, and you have to give them some guidance. Everybody might not agree, but a good bit of science supports the theory that real muscle hypertrophy and development occurs when we are resting, not lifting. The theory goes that muscle fibers are injured during lifting stress. Muscle fiber hypertrophy (ie. growth) occurs during recovery. Therefore, we need to stress the muscles with our lifting programs, but then supply them the proper nutrients (protein, complex carbohydrates, liquid) and time to rebuild and grow stronger. This is why I don't believe in lifting everyday and why athletes who "overwork" plateau.

 

Sorry for rambling. Just wish we all could devote more time and energy to this topic.

The Goat sez: Sissy Mountain by 3!!!

[compusatman]

A few of you agree with Bucksfan and me on the merits of a 3 day workout philosophy. Mykidsdad led the way with the practical reality of it all. Many of us and myself included, are speaking from a principle standpoint. Some are deliberating from a realistic standpoint. The fact is reality dictates how the training regimen is implemented in high school athletics. Therefore I am in complete agreement that a strength and training (group of) coach(es) is essential to the success of the program. Regular sideline staff members need someone else to manage the weight room and the off season regimen. Their daily regimen is overwhelming over a seasons duration. These guys don't get paid to work 14 hours a day but do so as a labor of love. So when it comes to off season training they might be inclined to see an oportunity to go home early once in a while. And deserve to. Besides, as a few have pointed out it is impossible for one or two coaches to manage an 80 member team in the weight room in a 3 day regimen. A strength and conditioning staff's responsibility would have to encompass other sports to justify it's existance but at least they would be on payroll. But the best way for these specialists to be successful is to provide off site training for hire with more specialized concepts...i.e., Martial Arts, dance, possibly gymnastics (these are the 3 superior core training regimens by the way), and in the long run sponsor camps and specialized summer regimens. A mouthful but we all know that the up and coming middle school athlete is in many paid programs in the off season and some all year long. Parents realize the shortcomings of government programs and routinely opt for premium fee based programs. The market is there waiting on the expertise. Am I looking for partners? Maybe...Ha! Food for thought.

 

 

[pujo]

A few of you agree with Bucksfan and me on the merits of a 3 day workout philosophy. Mykidsdad led the way with the practical reality of it all. Many of us and myself included, are speaking from a principle standpoint. Some are deliberating from a realistic standpoint. The fact is reality dictates how the training regimen is implemented in high school athletics. Therefore I am in complete agreement that a strength and training (group of) coach(es) is essential to the success of the program. Regular sideline staff members need someone else to manage the weight room and the off season regimen. Their daily regimen is overwhelming over a seasons duration. These guys don't get paid to work 14 hours a day but do so as a labor of love. So when it comes to off season training they might be inclined to see an oportunity to go home early once in a while. And deserve to. Besides, as a few have pointed out it is impossible for one or two coaches to manage an 80 member team in the weight room in a 3 day regimen. A strength and conditioning staff's responsibility would have to encompass other sports to justify it's existance but at least they would be on payroll. But the best way for these specialists to be successful is to provide off site training for hire with more specialized concepts...i.e., Martial Arts, dance, possibly gymnastics (these are the 3 superior core training regimens by the way), and in the long run sponsor camps and specialized summer regimens. A mouthful but we all know that the up and coming middle school athlete is in many paid programs in the off season and some all year long. Parents realize the shortcomings of government programs and routinely opt for premium fee based programs. The market is there waiting on the expertise. Am I looking for partners? Maybe...Ha! Food for thought.

If I'm not mistaken, were not very far away,I'm in Roan Mt. I have 2 boys training at home with me and I'm always trying to educate myself on the right type of training they should be doing.I'd like to chat with you sometime.

[mykidsdad]

A few of you agree with Bucksfan and me on the merits of a 3 day workout philosophy. Mykidsdad led the way with the practical reality of it all. Many of us and myself included, are speaking from a principle standpoint. Some are deliberating from a realistic standpoint. The fact is reality dictates how the training regimen is implemented in high school athletics. Therefore I am in complete agreement that a strength and training (group of) coach(es) is essential to the success of the program. Regular sideline staff members need someone else to manage the weight room and the off season regimen. Their daily regimen is overwhelming over a seasons duration. These guys don't get paid to work 14 hours a day but do so as a labor of love. So when it comes to off season training they might be inclined to see an oportunity to go home early once in a while. And deserve to. Besides, as a few have pointed out it is impossible for one or two coaches to manage an 80 member team in the weight room in a 3 day regimen. A strength and conditioning staff's responsibility would have to encompass other sports to justify it's existance but at least they would be on payroll. But the best way for these specialists to be successful is to provide off site training for hire with more specialized concepts...i.e., Martial Arts, dance, possibly gymnastics (these are the 3 superior core training regimens by the way), and in the long run sponsor camps and specialized summer regimens. A mouthful but we all know that the up and coming middle school athlete is in many paid programs in the off season and some all year long. Parents realize the shortcomings of government programs and routinely opt for premium fee based programs. The market is there waiting on the expertise. Am I looking for partners? Maybe...Ha! Food for thought.

 

I think it's great idea, I live in the Boro and we have a guy here that is doing just that. He concentrates mostly on burst training and he looks to be doing really well. Only negative is finding parents with disposable dollars that are willing to buy into it. In my opinion the only place managed worse than a high school weight room is a McDonalds friday night graveyard shift.

Edited June 9, 2011 by mykidsdad

[compusatman]

If I'm not mistaken, were not very far away,I'm in Roan Mt. I have 2 boys training at home with me and I'm always trying to educate myself on the right type of training they should be doing.I'd like to chat with you sometime.

That would be great Pujo. You live in Gods country. I used to do some backpacking on the trail back in the day. Little Rock Knob near Hughes Gap is one of my favorites. What position do your boys play? Yes, I do have some tried and true opinions on training outside the gym. Curious to hear what you are looking for.

[pujo]

That would be great Pujo. You live in Gods country. I used to do some backpacking on the trail back in the day. Little Rock Knob near Hughes Gap is one of my favorites. What position do your boys play? Yes, I do have some tried and true opinions on training outside the gym. Curious to hear what you are looking for.

Compusatman, sounds like you were hiking pretty close to my house, I live on Burbank. Its a beauteful area and a great place to raise kids.

 

Anyway my kids are still young ,one will be in the 8th and the other in the 1st.The oldest has been training since he was 6 and the little one has already started. They both play football ,baseball and basketball and do some form of training year around. They both like football the best and both plays at some skill position. My guess is both will be running backs. I'm just trying to develope the skills required to help them excel. Just always trying to figure out the proper training. I'm always interested in others opinions and it sounds like you've already dealt with this and might know what works and what don't. I'd be glad to give you my phone number and maybe we could chat sometime. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[MountainTroll]

Compusatman, sounds like you were hiking pretty close to my house, I live on Burbank. Its a beauteful area and a great place to raise kids.

 

Anyway my kids are still young ,one will be in the 8th and the other in the 1st.The oldest has been training since he was 6 and the little one has already started. They both play football ,baseball and basketball and do some form of training year around. They both like football the best and both plays at some skill position. My guess is both will be running backs. I'm just trying to develope the skills required to help them excel. Just always trying to figure out the proper training. I'm always interested in others opinions and it sounds like you've already dealt with this and might know what works and what don't. I'd be glad to give you my phone number and maybe we could chat sometime. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Pujo, my two cents.

 

I like to think about the wild kingdom when talking about younger athletes. What would the young lion cub be doing at that stage of development. First and foremost, it needs to be fun. Playtime, but with a purpose. Neuromuscular coordination probably should be primary focus. Getting the nervous system working in sync with the musculoskeletal system. Balance, coordination, proprioception, agility, speed, mental awareness. Focus on technique. Teach the body to move and react properly and efficiently, so it becomes automatic. The players who everybody says have "natural ability", that's where it comes from.

If you look at martial arts, I believe judo is probably the best for football. Body position (ie. proprioception), core strength and stability, balance, leverage, and efficient application of force to manipulate opponent.

Developing proper nutrition and lifestyle habits at this age is critical and carries over as they get older.

As you know, gotta go easy with the weights at this age, even the 8th grader. Even the plyometrics have to go easy. Young joints, ligaments, and bone growth plates can't handle the stress of hardcore plyo's and weight yet.

 

Eat good, play hard, and rest hard. Can't wait to see your boys at the varsity level.

 

Wading in the creek without bustin yer butt and manipulating a fishing pole around that danged mountain laurel definitely needs to be part of the training regimen.

[mykidsdad]

Compusatman, sounds like you were hiking pretty close to my house, I live on Burbank. Its a beauteful area and a great place to raise kids.

 

Anyway my kids are still young ,one will be in the 8th and the other in the 1st.The oldest has been training since he was 6 and the little one has already started. They both play football ,baseball and basketball and do some form of training year around. They both like football the best and both plays at some skill position. My guess is both will be running backs. I'm just trying to develope the skills required to help them excel. Just always trying to figure out the proper training. I'm always interested in others opinions and it sounds like you've already dealt with this and might know what works and what don't. I'd be glad to give you my phone number and maybe we could chat sometime. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sounds like you are already ahead of the curve. The absolute best trainning tip ever for your kids....... YOU BE THERE!!!!!! Everything else will work itself out. Eventually what sports they play will shrink, they like most of us will gravitate toward what they feel they do well. I have seen parents that spend money for hitting lessons, pitching lessons, suppliments etc. But when it's all said and done it's about the ride.

 

As a photographer, I've seen my share of senior nights. Mom gets the rose and dad gets a handshake. We this year it's my turn and the only question I have is can we do it all over again????? I wear my kids out about working extra and being a leader, setting the standard. I guess I'm just trying to help them become a man and more importantly become the man God has created them to be. At the end of the day I just hope I got more right than wrong, and man it sure has been alot of fun.

[pujo]

Pujo, my two cents.

 

I like to think about the wild kingdom when talking about younger athletes. What would the young lion cub be doing at that stage of development. First and foremost, it needs to be fun. Playtime, but with a purpose. Neuromuscular coordination probably should be primary focus. Getting the nervous system working in sync with the musculoskeletal system. Balance, coordination, proprioception, agility, speed, mental awareness. Focus on technique. Teach the body to move and react properly and efficiently, so it becomes automatic. The players who everybody says have "natural ability", that's where it comes from.

If you look at martial arts, I believe judo is probably the best for football. Body position (ie. proprioception), core strength and stability, balance, leverage, and efficient application of force to manipulate opponent.

Developing proper nutrition and lifestyle habits at this age is critical and carries over as they get older.

As you know, gotta go easy with the weights at this age, even the 8th grader. Even the plyometrics have to go easy. Young joints, ligaments, and bone growth plates can't handle the stress of hardcore plyo's and weight yet.

 

Eat good, play hard, and rest hard. Can't wait to see your boys at the varsity level.

 

Wading in the creek without bustin yer butt and manipulating a fishing pole around that danged mountain laurel definitely needs to be part of the training regimen.

The creek actually helps, takes alot of balance and coordination to get up and down these creeks. They both do alot of trampoline and agility stuff, the oldest does weightlifting and alot of body weight exercises, he don't do heavy lifting,just weights he can do with good form for 10 reps. Exercise and diet is actually what makes the bones stronger. All kids do plyometrics, just not the advanced stuff. Itry to be smart about all this stuff,but I can always use advise, you seem to be extremely sharp and I respect the things you say. Keep it coming.

[pujo]

Sounds like you are already ahead of the curve. The absolute best trainning tip ever for your kids....... YOU BE THERE!!!!!! Everything else will work itself out. Eventually what sports they play will shrink, they like most of us will gravitate toward what they feel they do well. I have seen parents that spend money for hitting lessons, pitching lessons, suppliments etc. But when it's all said and done it's about the ride.

 

As a photographer, I've seen my share of senior nights. Mom gets the rose and dad gets a handshake. We this year it's my turn and the only question I have is can we do it all over again????? I wear my kids out about working extra and being a leader, setting the standard. I guess I'm just trying to help them become a man and more importantly become the man God has created them to be. At the end of the day I just hope I got more right than wrong, and man it sure has been alot of fun.

Its easy to see you are dedicated to you're kids by the name you go by. Ido my on hitting lessons and all of the above, try to teach them hard work and committment.I'm like you,I'm not perfect by any means ,but I have perfect intentions. We all make mistakes,just hopefully they are not to big and we can learn from um. Alot of different opinions on kids and strength training, I've done enough research to understand it pretty well, main things are proper technique and not real heavy weights. In my mind ,alot of it is just common sense. If a kid can do a bodyweight pullup, he can do weight training.

[compusatman]

Pujo, we all have differing opinions but as long as we all can respect each other then it matters not if we are republican or democrat. The previous posts allude to wonderful points but you already understand the part about not taking away their childhood. You can't live where you live and not appreciate the outdoors so I would venture to say your 8th grader has seen bear, snake, and cat and most likely in their own back yard.

 

My POB is 1705 Kingsport, TN 37662. Just label it something obvious. You can give me your contact info in that communication. Every time I get on the core training soapbox here on the T the thread quickly dies. So I did'nt want to ruin this thread with the same old sermon. However, since Troll has broken trumps I will shed a bit of light. My son was a Second Degree Black Belt by his 10th birthday. Then he started playing football. He was a golfer before that. He is now working on his Third Dan in Taekwondo. But he has studied Kung Fu, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Hapkido and has dabbled in MMA. Bruce Lee would take current MMA champions and break them like match sticks. IMO the Martial Arts are superior early developmental diciplines for any sport. And all acedemia. Especially football. You won't, however, find many people who will listen, agree, or otherwise deliberate the benefit of these diciplines in light of football training. Suffice to say, it teaches strict core dicipline and creates abilities the weight room will never see. Granted, the weight room has it's rightful place in the training regimen, but for bullet proof core training it is either Martial Arts, Dance or Gymnastics...period.

 

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Bruce Lee thread because my motive was purely to gain a bit of new knowledge about the weight room from people who knew more than me. So I want to keep that dialogue open. And yes, my son was a RB.

Edited June 10, 2011 by compusatman