Illegal Slam? You make the Call.

[mat73557]

Again, what I hear you saying is that a referee will base his calls on something other than the rule book. I know a lot of refs in this area and I just don't see them calling a match differently based on the reputation of the kid or team. If there is an illegal move, I expect it to be called. If nothing illegal is happening, no illegal call should be made.

 

This will be my last post on this portion of the debate as well.

[mat73557]

So now, I want to question the folks who have taken the illegal side. What exactly about the lift and return was not legal?

 

Don't take me for trying to beat a dead horse. I have another kid who is going to grow up to be a middle schooler soon so I'm gonna be in this for a while and I want to make sure I know...........not just think I know.

 

Was it the trapped arm? (I am not sure, but it looked like the arm may have come loose prior to wrestler b contacting the mat....)

 

Was it because wrestler A didn't slow down the return somehow?

 

Because we can all agree that this is a common technique, what makes it a legal wrestling move?

 

Someone also said if wrestler B is injured after being lifted, then Wrestler A is at fault...what if he jams a finger on the way down or dislocates one? Would it then be illegal because the safety of wrestler B is in the hands of wrestler A?

 

Is there a place where I can read cases or examples?

 

Thanks to all again for the input. No really good discussions on CoachT lately so maybe this helps the folks who like to throw out their opinions once in a while!

[HSDAD]

Again, what I hear you saying is that a referee will base his calls on something other than the rule book.

 

Did not say that. I said the parents called it aggressive wrestling. I call it punching

with closed fist to break a craddle, poking eyes on purpose, etc... I would say that

most people would agree that those actions would be considered against most

association rules. If you have been called for illegal moves, they will remember

you and your team.

Edited December 19, 2012 by HSDAD

[wristbar]

So now, I want to question the folks who have taken the illegal side. What exactly about the lift and return was not legal?

 

Don't take me for trying to beat a dead horse. I have another kid who is going to grow up to be a middle schooler soon so I'm gonna be in this for a while and I want to make sure I know...........not just think I know.

 

Was it the trapped arm? (I am not sure, but it looked like the arm may have come loose prior to wrestler b contacting the mat....)

 

Was it because wrestler A didn't slow down the return somehow?

 

Because we can all agree that this is a common technique, what makes it a legal wrestling move?

 

Someone also said if wrestler B is injured after being lifted, then Wrestler A is at fault...what if he jams a finger on the way down or dislocates one? Would it then be illegal because the safety of wrestler B is in the hands of wrestler A?

 

Is there a place where I can read cases or examples?

 

Thanks to all again for the input. No really good discussions on CoachT lately so maybe this helps the folks who like to throw out their opinions once in a while!

 

The lift was correctly called illegal because the referee must have felt there was unnecessary force. One way to correct this is to let wrestler b fall to the mat at 9.8 m/s². At the peak of the lift while holding onto the wrestler, just let the other wrestler fall to the mat under his own faculties. If he has his arms free he will most certainly put his hands out to protect his face and the end result will not be called a slam. The other option is to land the other wrestler on his hip instead of taking him forward toward his head

[BIRD WATCHER]

Read pages 60-61 of this years NFHS Wrestling rule book, where slams are discussed as a point of emphasis this year. It is made clear that it is the wrestler making the lift who has responsibility for returning his opponent safely to the mat. In this case it appears to me that the lifting wrestler overrotated his opponent and landed him on his head. That with the appearance of driving him to the mat with force makes this illegal. Wristbar is correct, if he had maintained control and landed him on his hip even with some force it would probably not have been called a slam.

 

I looked the Iowa forum where this was posted a few hours ago and at that time the opinions were 9 to 1 that this was a slam. Glad to know that they agree with the majority of this board.

[hoosierdad]

Should this have been stopped as potential dangerous?

 

I thought if the defensive wrestler was unable to protect himself when lifted it would be called potentially dangerous and the match stopped? I asked this earlier. Is there a ref that can answer this question? If this is true, the match should have been stopped. Maybe the ref did not know it was happening because it happened so fast.

 

Just a question.

Edited December 20, 2012 by hoosierdad

[Sommers]

Again safety is the first concern of our officials. From what I saw here was the right arm was trapped until a foot before impact. Not a bad call. Now in the case of the Scooter call I looked up, I saw at mat side a tough shot leveraging & driving a 2-3x state champ toward the mat horizontally with both arms free,,, but a slam was called with little chance of injury. Even the champion's dad admitted to me that the shot & landing on the mat looked pretty good and he was obviously glad for the W.

 

Love to see a YouTube or something of that TD/slam?.... Scooter Houston vs Michael Creagan 2002-3 state tournament.

[DAKEKO]

Read pages 60-61 of this years NFHS Wrestling rule book, where slams are discussed as a point of emphasis this year. It is made clear that it is the wrestler making the lift who has responsibility for returning his opponent safely to the mat. In this case it appears to me that the lifting wrestler overrotated his opponent and landed him on his head. That with the appearance of driving him to the mat with force makes this illegal. Wristbar is correct, if he had maintained control and landed him on his hip even with some force it would probably not have been called a slam.

 

I looked the Iowa forum where this was posted a few hours ago and at that time the opinions were 9 to 1 that this was a slam. Glad to know that they agree with the majority of this board.

 

Very well said, I am an official and I was there watching this as it happened. The official in question was a new official. From where I was sitting on the backside watching.... my thoughts were I hope he calls that, because I knew him being a 1st year official, he might question himselph whether or not this was executed with excessive force or not. I was very pleased that he did in fact call the illegal slam. Or he could have called unnecessary roughness. With his opponent not being able to continue either call would have ended with a win for the injured wrestler.

 

As for officials or this particular official working not for the love of the sport or just officiating for financial gain...... ALL of the officials at this particular tournament were VOLUNTEERING their time to raise money for a family injured in a car wreck in Williamson County. One fatality. Not sure that statement holds water, if you're referring to the official in this match.

Edited December 20, 2012 by DAKEKO

[Sommers]

Was himselph intentional. Inside joke for those who hasn't the faintest.

[DAKEKO]

Was himselph intentional. Inside joke for those who hasn't the faintest.

Was himselph intentional. Inside joke for those who hasn't the faintest.

 

YOU KNOW IT WAS!!!

[CoachGonyea]

YOU KNOW IT WAS!!!

Ok, this is funny....

[maybe]

Kind of a no brainer. Wrestler B has his return arm trapped, his feet clear his head and he lands on his shoulder/neck/head. Illegal...especially for middle school.