Noise Makers for '13 & 14 - All Divisions...

[rlwest40]

What if a D1 freshman beats the retuning state champion in the Region tourney the week before...is the freshman seeded in the state? And could it be possible that the freshman Region champ draw the reigning state champ the first round of the state tourney?

Only region champs that are state placers are 'separated'. Head to head doesn't mean anything. A freshman that wins his region will be a blind draw. Any region champs that didn't place at state will be a blind draw.

 

Example: LaRue is a senior ranked #2 in D1 and was a match from placing at state last year. He is a favorite to win his region but even if he does then he still won't be seeded, he will be a blind draw. The #1 and #2 wrestlers in that weight could wrestle in the first round due to the blind draws. It's possible for #1 #2 and #4 to all be on the same side of the bracket in that weight class.

[Tronado]

Remember they aren't really being treated differently than any other weightclass.  The other weights just happen to have returning placers in them that would be separated.  Had their been any returning medalists at 106 (like last year with Michael Murphy) then at least that person would be "placed" in the bracket.

 

Regardless of weightclass it is still very likely that many of the top wrestlers could meet earlier than if seeding or separation by region placement had been performed because many of them were not medalists the previous season.

 

 

I think you are misinterpreting what was stated... they would not be medical forfeiting out of the state tournament.  They would be medical forfeiting out of the regional tournament once they have qualified to go to state.  Since the regional placement doesn't matter (i.e. it has no bearing on where you are placed in the state bracket), why wrestle the match?

Your right ghouse, I looked back before Mike corrected me on it and read more about what you were saying. No , im all for the just getting down to the real business at hand. No reason at all to wrestle a match that has no bearing on the state tournament, risking injury and all kinds of other things. Its all about the one tournament, so sorry for my confusion.

[rlwest40]

For some of you questioning the value of Peaking for the big events at season's end, check out http://www.curbywrestling.com/

 

Under

 

Science of wrestling - annual review of wrestling research 2010

 

I downloaded this 53 page pdf report from their site that goes into scientific detail how to do this right. The research is extensive from credible sources.  They don't see peaking as hogwash, but essential to rise to elite.

Are you gonna copy and paste all 53 pages?

[Tronado]

Only region champs that are state placers are 'separated'. Head to head doesn't mean anything. A freshman that wins his region will be a blind draw. Any region champs that didn't place at state will be a blind draw.

 

Example: LaRue is a senior ranked #2 in D1 and was a match from placing at state last year. He is a favorite to win his region but even if he does then he still won't be seeded, he will be a blind draw. The #1 and #2 wrestlers in that weight could wrestle in the first round due to the blind draws. It's possible for #1 #2 and #4 to all be on the same side of the bracket in that weight class.

Campbell Lewis beat Tee Boone in the region finals his Freshman year, Tee was a senior, that loss cost him his seeding at the state and I believe a lot more because when the brackets were drawn almost all the top ranked kids in the state were in the upper bracket. Tee lost a heartbreaking second round match and was gone because of follow your man. Life isn't fair, but we try to make the best of it. Also a few years ago Cleveland won a state championship, the first year they started D. E. they had quite a few wrestlers, and a couple that got upset in first round. Cleveland doesn't win the Traditional State with out D.E., I researched it after the state tournament that year, but because they had so many young men fighting back thru conso's and winning I might add it put them over the top. Cleveland, Soddy, and Bradley were with in 6 points of each other that year. Soddy had 6 in the finals.......other years, 6 in the finals almost guaranteed a state championship.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Tronado

[oltimer]

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT SINCE ALL THE WAYS TO SEED THE BRACKET ARE OUT THE DOOR ... I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT THEN THEY SHOULD SIMPLY TAKE EACH REGION CHAMPION AND RUNNER UP ALONG WITH 3RD AND 4TH. DIVIDE THE BRACKET ACCORDINGLY WITH THE RANKINGS/HEAD TO HEAD! SHOW THE BRACKET THE ATTENTION IT SHOULD GET INSTEAD OF TOSSING NAMES IN THE AIR AND SAYING TAKE WHAT YOU GET... 106, TO ME, HAS TO BE THE HARDEST TO DO ANYTHING WITH BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT IT CAN BE DONE BY FOLLOWING RECORD AND HEAD TO HEAD....BUT DEF...SEED THIS AS THE OTHER SO THESE KIDS GET THE SAME ATTENTION AS THE REST OF THE WEIGHT CLASSES! DONT MAKE SINCE TO ME TO TRY AND FILL THE WEIGHT CLASS IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET A SEEMINGLY, FAIR, PAIRING BY THE TSSAA.... GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE!

 

[rlwest40]

I don't see what's so difficult about properly seeding the high school state championship. I'm not talking about an idiotic carry tournament or the powers to be buddy system of separating and 'random' blind draws that never seem so random.

 

If youth and middle school tournaments across the country can do it and regular season high school tournaments can do it then why is our state championship the only tournament that can't seem to do it? Or is it just that they won't? If so, why not?

[moncejim]

is this for d2 only as far as the blind draw ,or for 106 or all divisions?

Edited February 4, 2014 by moncejim

[rlwest40]

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT SINCE ALL THE WAYS TO SEED THE BRACKET ARE OUT THE DOOR ... I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT THEN THEY SHOULD SIMPLY TAKE EACH REGION CHAMPION AND RUNNER UP ALONG WITH 3RD AND 4TH. DIVIDE THE BRACKET ACCORDINGLY WITH THE RANKINGS/HEAD TO HEAD! SHOW THE BRACKET THE ATTENTION IT SHOULD GET INSTEAD OF TOSSING NAMES IN THE AIR AND SAYING TAKE WHAT YOU GET... 106, TO ME, HAS TO BE THE HARDEST TO DO ANYTHING WITH BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT IT CAN BE DONE BY FOLLOWING RECORD AND HEAD TO HEAD....BUT DEF...SEED THIS AS THE OTHER SO THESE KIDS GET THE SAME ATTENTION AS THE REST OF THE WEIGHT CLASSES! DONT MAKE SINCE TO ME TO TRY AND FILL THE WEIGHT CLASS IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET A SEEMINGLY, FAIR, PAIRING BY THE TSSAA.... GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE!

 

106 is being separated just like all of the weight classes. Some might have 3 or 4 seeds while most will only have 1 or 2 seeds. Some may have 0 seeds. The current system is terrible so now you're wanting special treatment for just 1 weight class. Fix the system and it won't be an issue for any weight classes in the future.

[oltimer]

I don't see what's so difficult about properly seeding the high school state championship. I'm not talking about an idiotic carry tournament or the powers to be buddy system of separating and 'random' blind draws that never seem so random.

 

If youth and middle school tournaments across the country can do it and regular season high school tournaments can do it then why is our state championship the only tournament that can't seem to do it? Or is it just that they won't? If so, why not?

 

SEEMS AS IF LITTLE TIMMY IS AT A HIGHER WEIGHT MAYBE OR COULD BE THE (HIGHER POWERS TO BE) BUT I CAN SEE SOME VERY UPSET PARENTS THAT WOULD WANT AN EXPLANATION FROM TSSAA FOR MAKING ONE WEIGHT LESS IMPORTANT TO THE TOURNAMENT DUE TO NO PLACERS! JUST FROM FOLLOWING IT THIS YEAR AND FROM WHAT PEOPLE ARE POSTING ABOUT REGIONAL PLACEMENT, THAT YOU COULD JUST SEE A SEEDED TOURNEY START TO FORM FROM THAT DATA ALONE! FRUSTRATING ....

[rlwest40]

is this for d2 only as far as the blind draw ,or for 106 or all divisions?

 

From all the recent complaining it seems like D2 is now wrestling under the same rules that D1 has been subjected to. Sounds to me like no one approves of this system. Maybe it will be changed now that D2 is involved, too late this year though.

[Pale]

The seeding issues need to be addressed, that is for sure, but the eventual state champ will beat whoever is put in front of him. You have to beat the best to be the best. Other than wanting bragging rights of being a placer but not a champ, it doesn't matter all that much. The cream rises. 

[ghouse]

From all the recent complaining it seems like D2 is now wrestling under the same rules that D1 has been subjected to. Sounds to me like no one approves of this system. Maybe it will be changed now that D2 is involved, too late this year though.

 

I think there are two issues at play here.

1) DII has been able to seed their state tournament for several years now using a clearly defined set of criteria (developed by the DII coaches) and it has worked pretty well.  Losing this ability isn't something that many of them are particularly happy about.  You could probably come up with a litany of reasons why DI hasn't been able to do this and some might be legitimate and many would simply come down to the fact that it is more work than some want to put in.

 

2) I could be mistaken but doesn't DI still separate the placers from the same region?  As in, 1's and 2's on opposite sides of the bracket with 4 on the 1 side and 2 on the three side.  That keeps the tournament from being a true blind draw.  The DII folks are being told that this would not be done for their tournament and that is a point of contention because if that is true they aren't being given the same level of treatment as DI.  It is has been stated their tournament would be blind draw other than returning state medalists.  I remember when a region champion would always get another region's 4th place finisher in DI but perhaps that isn't the case anymore as I don't see anything mentioning it in the TSSAA handbook.  

 

Heck, let's face it, the previous seeding criteria for DII didn't give a returning state 6th place finisher criteria to be seeded at the tournament.  Now this person would be "placed" into the bracket apart from other returning state medalists.