ANYONE ELSE HEARING THIS?

[QSouth89]

Like I said it is all "hear say" right now, unless an investigation happens and something comes out of it. But I personally believe something will happen IF the TSSAA comes knocking.

If that's the case they should come a knocking at some other Knoxville schools and I don't mean private either 😳

[beastmode89]

If that's the case they should come a knocking at some other Knoxville schools and I don't mean private either 😳

Knox Co. schools already give a free education lol and a good one at that.

[OutlawJoseyWales]

If that's the case they should come a knocking at some other Knoxville schools and I don't mean private either 😳

so your defense is since others are doing it it should be ok for Catholic to do it.

[IrishBBall]

OPINION : All privates recruit it is the nature of their business. They have to recruit to get students because they have no students specifically zoned for their schools. Evidence found in newspaper ads, open houses, flyers sent to private residence etc. Some offer illegal incentives to get students and student athletes. Some adults want to feel important, live vicariously through high school sports etc... Just the nature of the beast. Grace got caught and got punished. If other privates get caught they will get punished. IMO the best solution is for privates to have a different association and may the riches school win. But to say they don't recruit isn't accurate.

The Grace situation is much different. Several violations but the biggest one was the Head Pastor of the church paying an athlete's tuition. Hard to deny any prior knowledge or culpability when the top dog is the one committing the violation, no matter what the extenuating circumstances were that led him to feel compelled to do so.

 

We've rehashed this argument a gazillion times, publics are just at hard at work finding the best athletes for their program. Maybe since some of the Central-zoned athletes have bailed to Catholic, Grace, Webb, Powell, Halls etc. it just hits a little harder. 

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

http://youtu.be/KVtcp8XHhOo

[QSouth89]

so your defense is since others are doing it it should be ok for Catholic to do it.

That's not what I'm saying at all. At least you acknowledge that other schools are not on the up and up. My statement is based on what proof you have. Hear say is pretty thin. I've been reading on coacht for years how private schools cheat while no one dares to talk about what publics blatantly do. Instead of saying you heard offer proof. At beast mode, I've taught in Knox county for years I wish our superintendent treated us like we were giving kids good educations lol

[redandblack63]

That's not what I'm saying at all. At least you acknowledge that other schools are not on the up and up. My statement is based on what proof you have. Hear say is pretty thin. I've been reading on coacht for years how private schools cheat while no one dares to talk about what publics blatantly do. Instead of saying you heard offer proof. At beast mode, I've taught in Knox county for years I wish our superintendent treated us like we were giving kids good educations lol

Easy to prove privates recruit. This weeks issue of the Halls shopper has a advertisement for Sacred Heart. Promoting both academics and athletics. Easy to prove. Question is it breaking the rules. Free admission to school events is breaking the rules. IMO T$$AA could eliminate problem by having two divisions. Private schools and public. Then discussion/debate is over. By the way can any one explain why privates are opposed to this arrangement?

[MountainTroll]

Everybody recruits.  That is not the issue.  Financial Aide is the issue.

 

Here is the link to their "Tuition Support Application". 

http://www.knoxvillecatholic.com/site/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/10/2014-2015-Tuition-Support-Application-Knoxville.pdf

Here is the link to their "Standard Parish Contribution Form"

http://www.knoxvillecatholic.com/site/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/11/Standard-Parish-Form-2014-2015.pdf

 

The church subsidizes the tuition of all Catholic students and offers need-based financial aide to families that can't afford the tuition.  Notre Dame does the same thing.

 

The T$$AA By-Laws say, "Section 16.  If tuition is charged, it must be paid by parent, bona fide guardian or other family member . . . Any loan program, grant program, educational foundation or similar program that is established and/or administered, in whole or in part, by a school or official of a school is considered financial aid."

 

The "Standard Parish Subsidy" clearly violates these rules, but I don't think the T$$AA wants to take on the Catholic Church on this one.

 

Both schools award need-based financial aide, which is fine.  BUT . . . if any varsity athlete is receiving this financial aide, then the school is supposed to be in Division II.  It is hard for me to believe that not a single varsity athlete is receiving this need-based financial aide.  The only way to know is if the T$$AA investigates the tuition records.

 

I heard that Notre Dame was moving to Division II at mid-cycle for this reason.  If that is true, then Knox Catholic will have to do the same.

 

Time will tell.

Edited January 24, 2014 by MountainTroll

[QSouth89]

Easy to prove privates recruit. This weeks issue of the Halls shopper has a advertisement for Sacred Heart. Promoting both academics and athletics. Easy to prove. Question is it breaking the rules. Free admission to school events is breaking the rules. IMO T$$AA could eliminate problem by having two divisions. Private schools and public. Then discussion/debate is over. By the way can any one explain why privates are opposed to this arrangement?

It's not opposition it's the finger pointing. I loved it when catholic played DII, trips to Baylor and McCallie with their facilities and fans were always fun games. Well let's see what happens and go from there.

[Old Warhorse]

Everybody recruits.  That is not the issue.  Financial Aide is the issue.

 

Here is the link to their "Tuition Support Application". 

http://www.knoxvillecatholic.com/site/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/10/2014-2015-Tuition-Support-Application-Knoxville.pdf

Here is the link to their "Standard Parish Contribution Form"

http://www.knoxvillecatholic.com/site/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/11/Standard-Parish-Form-2014-2015.pdf

 

The church subsidizes the tuition of all Catholic students and offers need-based financial aide to families that can't afford the tuition.  Notre Dame does the same thing.

 

The T$$AA By-Laws say, "Section 16.  If tuition is charged, it must be paid by parent, bona fide guardian or other family member . . . Any loan program, grant program, educational foundation or similar program that is established and/or administered, in whole or in part, by a school or official of a school is considered financial aid."

 

The "Standard Parish Subsidy" clearly violates these rules, but I don't think the T$$AA wants to take on the Catholic Church on this one.

 

Both schools award need-based financial aide, which is fine.  BUT . . . if any varsity athlete is receiving this financial aide, then the school is supposed to be in Division II.  It is hard for me to believe that not a single varsity athlete is receiving this need-based financial aide.  The only way to know is if the T$$AA investigates the tuition records.

 

I heard that Notre Dame was moving to Division II at mid-cycle for this reason.  If that is true, then Knox Catholic will have to do the same.

 

Time will tell.

This makes a lot of sense. In many Middle Atlantic States and in the Northeast, where there are more Catholic schools and churches, they all play in their own leagues that are separated from public school conferences. Publics and privates can still play non-conference games if they choose.

[IrishBBall]

Easy to prove privates recruit. This weeks issue of the Halls shopper has a advertisement for Sacred Heart. Promoting both academics and athletics. Easy to prove. Question is it breaking the rules. Free admission to school events is breaking the rules. IMO T$$AA could eliminate problem by having two divisions. Private schools and public. Then discussion/debate is over. By the way can any one explain why privates are opposed to this arrangement?

I don't think free admission to middle school events is covered by the TSSAA....Also given the recent success of both Central and Halls I think the private schools are a great alternative. I'm pretty sure the rosters of Catholic, Grace, CAK and Webb have several of those kids. Doesn't take any recruiting (just common sense) to seriously look at the privates given the number of state titles or at least competing for them in recent history. Do Maryville, Alcoa, Fulton recruit? I'm sure some of it goes on but I would say more people consider them because of their reputation for excellence. The schools and coaches sometimes sell themselves.

 

As far as opposition, you need to look no further than costs. It's not a big burden for football considering you only travel 5ish games prior to playoffs. The first year Catholic played after the split we took a forfeit rather than have to travel to Memphis for a district game. Our district in basketball and the other sports consisted of one other Knoxville team and several from Chattanooga. That meant the non-revenue sports had to make multiple trips to Chattanooga which, needless to say, is very cost-prohibitive. It also meant when there was a vote of where to hold the tournaments Chattanooga always won which led to multiple trips during the week for both the boys and girls teams. Take the cost factor out and it still meant getting home from the games around midnight, having very few fans other than parents coming to support the team, choosing to play the away games on a Friday during regular season to minimize being out so late on a school night. That also killed our basketball gate since Fridays are normally your biggest crowds and the visitors wouldn't travel well during the week.  

[realmenwearred]

TSSAA = State

 

Catholic Church = Church

 

Don't mix Church and State. 

 

Easy.....................