sx1234 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Crybabees said: Glad to see conversation being generated about national rankings but I'm sorry folks tn is so far behind nationally it's terrible and I don't see it changing anytime soon except for select few that are doing 500% more than the rest!! 3 minutes ago, Crybabees said: It's fine to disagree MY opinion is until our coaching ,intensity,competition , yr round wrestling , and#1 our parents step up we will be where we're at now! Kudos to everyone who is involved in tn wrestling the teams and coaches just need so much more support than what they get thx to all who support wrestling it's just not enough to compete consistently nationally Okay, I'll bite.... 1.Step up in what way? 2. What's wrong with where we are at now? (and yes I realize I may be opening pandora's box with that question) 3. Need more support in what way? If you mean need more financial support from the school system I would absolutely agree! If you mean more support as in publicity or coverage then I would agree too, especially here in Knoxville! But again, your comments are very vague and could be interpreted several different ways And finally, what do you mean by compete nationally? In high school you compete on a state level... that's in every sport in every state. Any type of team "national championship" in high school is largely voted on rather then a true competition where the teams compete with one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, sx1234 said: Okay, I'll bite.... 1.Step up in what way? 2. What's wrong with where we are at now? (and yes I realize I may be opening pandora's box with that question) 3. Need more support in what way? If you mean need more financial support from the school system I would absolutely agree! If you mean more support as in publicity or coverage then I would agree too, especially here in Knoxville! But again, your comments are very vague and could be interpreted several different ways And finally, what do you mean by compete nationally? In high school you compete on a state level... that's in every sport in every state. Any type of team "national championship" in high school is largely voted on rather then a true competition where the teams compete with one another. If you want to know why Blair Academy, Graham, Monteni Catholic, Apple Valley, Wyoming Seminary, Poway, Broken Arrow, Lake Highland, Tuttle, etc... have nationally ranked most years is due to the fact they travel and compete against each other during the season. Yes, some media outlet is voting on the national rankings but the teams make it easy by going to many of the same tournaments. Edited February 20, 2018 by cbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakid8 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, cbg said: If you want to know why Blair Academy, Graham, Monteni Catholic, Apple Valley, Wyoming Seminary, Poway, Broken Arrow, Lake Highland, Tuttle, etc... have nationally ranked most years is due to the fact they travel and compete against each other during the season. Yes, some media outlet is voting on the national rankings but the teams make it easy by going to many of the same tournaments. They also recruit from out of state alot, McCallie, Baylor and a few others do recruit and pull kids from outside of Chattanooga area, but not near like what those powerhouses do. It's why kids like Cooper Flynn from TN is at McDonogh school in Maryland and Charles Escalera from Union County KY is at Wyoming Seminary! Not sure when I can remember the last time TN schools had boards from that far away for wrestling, although I am sure i have forgotten a few, but most boards at those schools are within an hour or two Blair has kids from as far away as Florida and Colorado, so not completely an apples to apples comparison. Also I havent looked completely at the rules they are governed by, but they also split squads up and send them to two national tournaments, which isn't really allowed by TSSAA without taking away two dates from the schedule for your varsity, not sure if those teams get hit with the same scheduling that TN does, but it sure would be nice to open those dates allowed up a little for split squads to be sent elsewhere for more varsity action, like Soddy to be able to send kids to McCallie tourney while they send a B squad to a small tourney like Chattanooga Christian to get some more mat time. Edited February 20, 2018 by cobrakid8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sommers Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, cobrakid8 said: They also recruit from out of state alot, McCallie, Baylor and a few others do recruit and pull kids from outside of Chattanooga area, but not near like what those powerhouses do. It's why kids like Cooper Flynn from TN is at McDonogh school in Maryland and Charles Escalera from Union County KY is at Wyoming Seminary! Not sure when I can remember the last time TN schools had boards from that far away for wrestling, although I am sure i have forgotten a few, but most boards at those schools are within an hour or two Blair has kids from as far away as Florida and Colorado, so not completely an apples to apples comparison. Also I havent looked completely at the rules they are governed by, but they also split squads up and send them to two national tournaments, which isn't really allowed by TSSAA without taking away two dates from the schedule for your varsity, not sure if those teams get hit with the same scheduling that TN does, but it sure would be nice to open those dates allowed up a little for split squads to be sent elsewhere for more varsity action, like Soddy to be able to send kids to McCallie tourney while they send a B squad to a small tourney like Chattanooga Christian to get some more mat time. I agree. Allow travel more with two split teams same date. Do an individual grand championship but don't keep team scores. Best vs best = More recruiters in attendance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, cobrakid8 said: They also recruit from out of state alot, McCallie, Baylor and a few others do recruit and pull kids from outside of Chattanooga area, but not near like what those powerhouses do. It's why kids like Cooper Flynn from TN is at McDonogh school in Maryland and Charles Escalera from Union County KY is at Wyoming Seminary! Not sure when I can remember the last time TN schools had boards from that far away for wrestling, although I am sure i have forgotten a few, but most boards at those schools are within an hour or two Blair has kids from as far away as Florida and Colorado, so not completely an apples to apples comparison. Also I havent looked completely at the rules they are governed by, but they also split squads up and send them to two national tournaments, which isn't really allowed by TSSAA without taking away two dates from the schedule for your varsity, not sure if those teams get hit with the same scheduling that TN does, but it sure would be nice to open those dates allowed up a little for split squads to be sent elsewhere for more varsity action, like Soddy to be able to send kids to McCallie tourney while they send a B squad to a small tourney like Chattanooga Christian to get some more mat time. I thought that we were discussing national rankings not recruiting? Did I miss something? If you want to talk about recruiting in Tennessee let's put everything on the table and discuss both the private schools and public schools that recruit. Edited February 21, 2018 by cbg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobobcatd Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, cbg said: I thought that we were discussing national rankings not recruiting? Did I miss something? If you want to talk about recruiting in Tennessee let's put everything on the table and discuss both the private schools and public schools that recruit. I'm intrigued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakid8 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, cbg said: I thought that we were discussing national rankings not recruiting? Did I miss something? If you want to talk about recruiting in Tennessee let's put everything on the table and discuss both the private schools and public schools that recruit. If you want to speak of national ranking like YOU did, and TN teams not keeping up with the teams like Blair and stuff I was speaking to the fact that if and a BIG if TN wrestling schools recruited to the level of those top schools we would be talking apples to apples, right now we are talking apples to oranges! Blair has kids from ALL over the country(saw kids on their roster from Florida, Colorado, NC just to name a few), Wyoming Seminary and the rest do ALSO! Like Escalera being talked to at a national tournament after winning state title at Union county and talked into going to Wyoming Prep! Baylor's Mason is from Chattanooga his mom taught my oldest in middle school math in a public school. IF Baylor, McCallie, Christian Brothers, Father Ryan or the other Private schools started to recruit nationally like those other schools you mentioned maybe they would be more nationally known, at this time they do not, they don't have and never will have that prestige or money thrown at their program as those schools you named do! Just like per population those schools up north don't put out the top football players in the country like southern states do, we just don't put out the D1 prospects those northern states do, but let's not pretend those Northern programs also do not raid the best kids from the south to come up and wrestle for their program and than complain about the reasons why TN wrestling isn't on that level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said: If you want to speak of national ranking like YOU did, and TN teams not keeping up with the teams like Blair and stuff I was speaking to the fact that if and a BIG if TN wrestling schools recruited to the level of those top schools we would be talking apples to apples, right now we are talking apples to oranges! Blair has kids from ALL over the country(saw kids on their roster from Florida, Colorado, NC just to name a few), Wyoming Seminary and the rest do ALSO! Like Escalera being talked to at a national tournament after winning state title at Union county and talked into going to Wyoming Prep! Baylor's Mason is from Chattanooga his mom taught my oldest in middle school math in a public school. IF Baylor, McCallie, Christian Brothers, Father Ryan or the other Private schools started to recruit nationally like those other schools you mentioned maybe they would be more nationally known, at this time they do not, they don't have and never will have that prestige or money thrown at their program as those schools you named do! Just like per population those schools up north don't put out the top football players in the country like southern states do, we just don't put out the D1 prospects those northern states do, but let's not pretend those Northern programs also do not raid the best kids from the south to come up and wrestle for their program and than complain about the reasons why TN wrestling isn't on that level! I am not complaining about why Tennessee does not have more kids ranked nationally and some of our programs are not ranked. I know the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakid8 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, cbg said: I am not complaining about why Tennessee does not have more kids ranked nationally and some of our programs are not ranked. I know the reason. You and everyone else knows that reason! The fact that those programs put more money into their programs than anyone else in the country would be that reason: which includes sending people to top events to recruit the best wrestlers(most of those private schools are not putting where their wrestlers are from, Blair does), spending money traveling all over the country for tournaments brings exposure to those programs. But again it boils down to MONEY, those schools recruit like no other in the country and that helps them reach a national audience! Do I think Baylor, CBHS or McCallie would reach those heights if they started sending their teams every year to Beast of East, Walsh Ironman and a few others, no I don't. They would have some great competition for sure, but last I read the wrestling budget for those schools like most you mentioned looked like a FCS football budget and I dont believe Baylor, McCallie or CBHS would ever pay that for high school wrestling. Now I know you didnt start it that was someone else on this topic, but that is the reason why those schools are at the top. Once there its much easier to stay compared to building the program which takes money and lots of time and effort. I read an article about it also that their students are not even exemplary compared to most other prep private schools, they concentrate on sports there at Blair. Blair- boarding 60k a year 42 for day school Baylor- board 49k a year 24k for school McCallie- board 50k a year 26 for school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crybabees Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Calm down fellas!! I think we all are for tn wrestling getting better to be honest part of me thinks we just simply don't know what to do! But I do know as a whole we'll not climb to fast against the best until we're facing and doing what they are or more such as wrestling yr round which is tough to convince , seeking tougher competition , personally I see a lot of our better wrestlers doing just the opposite until cornered at state or wherever! 1 or 2 serious kids in each gym isn't enough , I don't know the fix but I am ready to help or support in anyway ! The last thing I wanna do is piss anyone on here off but sometimes the truth hurts ! I travel a lot and overall from ms level to highschool our coaches kids and gyms are not on a level with the best it's gotta start early , I saw a post where a guy was speaking of hs kids and rankings and said he didn't care about what they were in ms ! Sorry boss if your gonna talk nationally it starts then or before to become great ! Thx for all input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thethunda190 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, cobrakid8 said: If you want to speak of national ranking like YOU did, and TN teams not keeping up with the teams like Blair and stuff I was speaking to the fact that if and a BIG if TN wrestling schools recruited to the level of those top schools we would be talking apples to apples, right now we are talking apples to oranges! Blair has kids from ALL over the country(saw kids on their roster from Florida, Colorado, NC just to name a few), Wyoming Seminary and the rest do ALSO! Like Escalera being talked to at a national tournament after winning state title at Union county and talked into going to Wyoming Prep! Baylor's Mason is from Chattanooga his mom taught my oldest in middle school math in a public school. IF Baylor, McCallie, Christian Brothers, Father Ryan or the other Private schools started to recruit nationally like those other schools you mentioned maybe they would be more nationally known, at this time they do not, they don't have and never will have that prestige or money thrown at their program as those schools you named do! Just like per population those schools up north don't put out the top football players in the country like southern states do, we just don't put out the D1 prospects those northern states do, but let's not pretend those Northern programs also do not raid the best kids from the south to come up and wrestle for their program and than complain about the reasons why TN wrestling isn't on that level! Coaching up North now I can tell you it's not recruiting that makes the schools so great. It's the fact that your going to tournaments every weekend and wrestling literally the top guys in the country, it is the fact that i can drive 30 minutes down the road to a BIG10 school or 30 minutes the other way and go to Navy, lastly its the fact that they feed all these studs to these huge programs and then those guys return and help witht the next crop of kids. Tennessee's top guys could compete with some but the difference is the depth that is up here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Thethunda190 said: Coaching up North now I can tell you it's not recruiting that makes the schools so great. It's the fact that your going to tournaments every weekend and wrestling literally the top guys in the country, it is the fact that i can drive 30 minutes down the road to a BIG10 school or 30 minutes the other way and go to Navy, lastly its the fact that they feed all these studs to these huge programs and then those guys return and help witht the next crop of kids. Tennessee's top guys could compete with some but the difference is the depth that is up here. You Sir are correct! Having lived in California, PA, Maryland and Tennessee I know for a fact that the coaching in PA is unreal. You have so many guys that are All-Americans going back and coaching at the high school level or even the youth level. You have families driving 1.5 hours one way to train with Young Guns or Buxton. Everywhere you turn there is a D1 AA working with kids and passing along valuable knowledge. I am not for one minute knocking the Tennessee coaching but when you have 2 or 3 D1 AA's practicing with high schools kids it makes a major difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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