State tournament refs

[jimbo44]

43 minutes ago, MAD SCIENCE said:

Problem with that is no one knows, To everyone else it just life is not always fair answer. There should be some accountability that we see. Players high school seasons end and many will never play again. Sometimes because a offical is having a bad day or mad about something. No other profession would this be accepted .

There s judicial review where the ones in the black robes get peer reviewed and rarely are the results are made public.

[ButwhatdoIknow]

I think it's just a function of the tssaa that they know they can do whatever they want and nobody can do anything about it. You want a public review of refs? Nah, we're gonna take care of it in house, and if you don't like it what are you gonna do about it...nothing because they hold the chips. Does that change the outcome of the games that were butchered? Nah, sorry but life isn't fair sometimes. At least Macon Co.'s coach mentioned how ridiculous it was to have Upperman's coach on the floor while they were actively screwing up how free throws were being given to a 14 yr old freshman with a state champ on the line. Put yourself in that girl's shoes with all the chaos going on around her. Unbelievable.

Until there are actual ways to run out any powers that be that just continually allow sub par refs in any sport due to laziness, greed, or just plain not caring, this will be a thread that can happen every year. 

[Lakers1977]

2 hours ago, ButwhatdoIknow said:

I think it's just a function of the tssaa that they know they can do whatever they want and nobody can do anything about it. You want a public review of refs? Nah, we're gonna take care of it in house, and if you don't like it what are you gonna do about it...nothing because they hold the chips. Does that change the outcome of the games that were butchered? Nah, sorry but life isn't fair sometimes. At least Macon Co.'s coach mentioned how ridiculous it was to have Upperman's coach on the floor while they were actively screwing up how free throws were being given to a 14 yr old freshman with a state champ on the line. Put yourself in that girl's shoes with all the chaos going on around her. Unbelievable.

Until there are actual ways to run out any powers that be that just continually allow sub par refs in any sport due to laziness, greed, or just plain not caring, this will be a thread that can happen every year. 

She would have never been in that position if the ref wouldn’t have called a bogus foul.  

[OrangeGuru]

11 hours ago, jimbo44 said:

I can promise you that there is accountability, but behind closed doors  The game tapes will be analyzed.  The officials will face the scruntity of their peers. Judgement calls are rarely questioned,but can be.  Misapplication of the rules gets a strong reaction from the powers that be.

Sure there is. Reviewed, analyzed and scrutinized  behind closed doors by.........uh by the guys they just called with that season and will see next season calling games again. That ought to produce substantial results and fast. Tell that to the senior player who didn't get to play in the championship game because of a poor call and to the fans who see the same ole same refs next year.

Edited March 13, 2018 by OrangeGuru

[Chewbaca]

11 hours ago, jimbo44 said:

I can promise you that there is accountability, but behind closed doors  The game tapes will be analyzed.  The officials will face the scruntity of their peers. Judgement calls are rarely questioned,but can be.  Misapplication of the rules gets a strong reaction from the powers that be.

I've known several coaches who have complained, sent films in and done everything they can do to see to it that refs are held accountable.  It's sad but the TSSAA really can't do much about it.  I mean there are not an over abundance of people lined up to ref.  I know Saturday's games were bad, but lets focus on the teams that won.  Besides a ref has never missed a ft, lay up, shot or box out, or turned it over during a game.  You have to live with some mistakes and go on.

[TryNotToSuck]

TSSAA can't do anything about it because if they do and set a higher standard for officials, then you'll see officials that'll say "F this" and will quit. I don't buy into the whole "shortage of officials" thing. However, there will be a lot of officials that'll get butt hurt and will quit, and will leave the TSSAA hanging. That's how I personally feel.

I will say this, those 3 officials and the state has received a lot of scrutiny as they should, but the next wave of officials that are having the opportunity to call the boys state tournament, is in a whole lot of pressure.

[TryNotToSuck]

I will say this, I looked at the TSSAA's twitter and looked at foul and free throw separation. I do have to give the officials some benefit of the doubt, they did try to keep it somewhat even.

However, in the Cheatham County/Macon County game, CCHS had 21 team fouls that went against them, while Macon County had 12. The free throw total was +21 for Macon County. 

Unaka had 19 team fouls, while Summertown had 9. Free throw differential favored Summertown by 13. Summertown won the game by 13 by the way.

Westview had 21 team fouls, to Macon County 12. Macon County had +11 in the free throw differential, and won the game by 5.

Those are 3 games that officials could play a role. But that is always a state to look at. I understand teams play different styles, some are more aggressive than others. But if you felt like you got robbed, take a look at the team foul/free throw differential. 

[OldIndian1]

You cant use the foul and free throw comparison as to how a game was actually officiated. Some teams play more aggressive. Some press more than others, play tight man to man, etc. What I saw during the Upperman/Macon game was a very poor officiated game. The last call on the three was horrible, but so was the non call just prior to that. That would have sent possibly Macon's best free throw shooter to the line with a chance to win the game. Levy was by far the best player on the court, but she should have had several fouls called on her that wasn't. The last shot was not a walk. It was a great shot by a great player. I am in agreement that the TSSAA needs to police its officials more.

[pantherrules]

The foul before that was on 40 king not 24 carter , therefore Macon's  best free-throw wouldn't been on line.

[Mw4vols]

2 hours ago, OldIndian1 said:

You cant use the foul and free throw comparison as to how a game was actually officiated. Some teams play more aggressive. Some press more than others, play tight man to man, etc. What I saw during the Upperman/Macon game was a very poor officiated game. The last call on the three was horrible, but so was the non call just prior to that. That would have sent possibly Macon's best free throw shooter to the line with a chance to win the game. Levy was by far the best player on the court, but she should have had several fouls called on her that wasn't. The last shot was not a walk. It was a great shot by a great player. I am in agreement that the TSSAA needs to police its officials more.

How many steps do you think someone is allowed to take, before you shoot a layup??  She took 2 steps before she got to the paint, then 2 more after she's in the paint. She picks the ball up 10 to 12 ft from the basket, changes direction twice around two players, and released the ball at the goal. She clearly takes 4 steps. How is that not a walk?

[engrmom]

Just watched the replay again. It’s been a while since Kindergarten, but I can still count and I’m having trouble seeing four steps after she picked up her dribble....  maybe that’s just me though...  Upperman won the game - twice actually - and also beat Macon four other times this season. No doubt that the best team won.  Time for all of the teams to put that game behind them and start getting ready for next season. That gold ball is in a trophy case in Baxter already. 

[ButwhatdoIknow]

22 hours ago, ElizabethGrace1320 said:

She would have never been in that position if the ref wouldn’t have called a bogus foul.  

I completely agree. The foul call on the 3 pt shot didn't look like a foul on replay, and the no call previously was terrible as well. But you can't take either one back. However the refs can't compound that mistake by completely losing control over the game, while a freshman is having to wrap their head around winning a state championship by hitting free throws. Dana broke the cardinal rules of touching a ref and being not only out of the box but at half court arguing a call, and I have never in a whole life around basketball seen a coach act that way and not get popped.  They were unlucky on the fall call, but supremely lucky she didn't get at least one tech no matter how bad the call was. So I think that was a wash. Upperman was a better team, and anyone arguing different is flat wrong. You don't beat a team 5 times and not just be better, with a next level player like Levy. Congrats to Upperman, period. But also to not think that it could have very easily been a different outcome with refs that weren't so poor is not being objective either.