Will tssaa ever stop being crooks?

[eers]

5 hours ago, CougarDadx2 said:

Fiscal solution - please note that in the 2021 filing, the TSSAA had a net income of over $600K. The executive compensation of $771K is more than double what a private company would have as a percentage of revenue.

That’s simply not accurate. 

[CougarDadx2]

38 minutes ago, eers said:

That’s simply not accurate. 

Please share with me what exactly is not accurate? Here is the data all the way back to 2015.

Link to previous 990s Details about Tennessee secondary school athletic association (irs.gov)

Here is 2020 summary, below that is 2021. As you can see, COVID was brutal - but 2021 was pretty good.

2020 Total Revenue	$2,942,808
Total Functional Expenses	$3,751,854
Net income	-$809,046
Notable sources of revenue		Percent of total revenue
Contributions	$55,096	1.9%
Program services	$2,818,002	95.8%
Investment income	$45,760	1.6%
Bond proceeds	$0
Royalties	$0
Rental property income	$0
Net fundraising	$0
Sales of assets	$0
Net inventory sales	$0
Other revenue	$23,950	0.8%
Notable expenses		Percent of total expenses
Executive compensation	$781,714	20.8%
Professional fundraising fees	$0
Other salaries and wages	$803,022	21.4%
Other
Total Assets	$3,058,438
Total Liabilities	$656,111
Net Assets	$2,402,327

Key Employees and Officers	Compensation
Bernard Childress (Executive Dir.)	$192,869
Gene Menees (Assistant Director)	$133,549
Mark Reeves (Assistant Director)	$125,673

 

2021 Total Revenue	$4,210,298
Total Functional Expenses	$3,577,776
Net income	$632,522
Notable sources of revenue		Percent of total revenue
Contributions	$411,275	9.8%
Program services	$3,695,411	87.8%
Investment income	$88,780	2.1%
Bond proceeds	$0
Royalties	$0
Rental property income	$0
Net fundraising	$0
Sales of assets	$0
Net inventory sales	$0
Other revenue	$14,832	0.4%
Notable expenses		Percent of total expenses
Executive compensation	$771,176	21.6%
Professional fundraising fees	$0
Other salaries and wages	$813,557	22.7%
Other
Total Assets	$3,665,012
Total Liabilities	$494,451
Net Assets	$3,170,561

 

[FBfan26]

20 hours ago, troubledtruth said:

I didnt assume anything actually. My point is TSSAA should take less because teams are not selling out and they are going into the red more times than not. Actually TSSAA should study surrounding states and see what works for them and what doesn't work. 

I thought they”posters on Coacht” said years ago geographically and population  wise it don’t make sense to follow them states.

Edited November 11, 2022 by FBfan26

[eers]

9 minutes ago, CougarDadx2 said:

Please share with me what exactly is not accurate? Here is the data all the way back to 2015.

Link to previous 990s Details about Tennessee secondary school athletic association (irs.gov)

Here is 2020 summary, below that is 2021. As you can see, COVID was brutal - but 2021 was pretty good.

2020 Total Revenue	$2,942,808
Total Functional Expenses	$3,751,854
Net income	-$809,046
Notable sources of revenue		Percent of total revenue
Contributions	$55,096	1.9%
Program services	$2,818,002	95.8%
Investment income	$45,760	1.6%
Bond proceeds	$0
Royalties	$0
Rental property income	$0
Net fundraising	$0
Sales of assets	$0
Net inventory sales	$0
Other revenue	$23,950	0.8%
Notable expenses		Percent of total expenses
Executive compensation	$781,714	20.8%
Professional fundraising fees	$0
Other salaries and wages	$803,022	21.4%
Other
Total Assets	$3,058,438
Total Liabilities	$656,111
Net Assets	$2,402,327

Key Employees and Officers	Compensation
Bernard Childress (Executive Dir.)	$192,869
Gene Menees (Assistant Director)	$133,549
Mark Reeves (Assistant Director)	$125,673

 

2021 Total Revenue	$4,210,298
Total Functional Expenses	$3,577,776
Net income	$632,522
Notable sources of revenue		Percent of total revenue
Contributions	$411,275	9.8%
Program services	$3,695,411	87.8%
Investment income	$88,780	2.1%
Bond proceeds	$0
Royalties	$0
Rental property income	$0
Net fundraising	$0
Sales of assets	$0
Net inventory sales	$0
Other revenue	$14,832	0.4%
Notable expenses		Percent of total expenses
Executive compensation	$771,176	21.6%
Professional fundraising fees	$0
Other salaries and wages	$813,557	22.7%
Other
Total Assets	$3,665,012
Total Liabilities	$494,451
Net Assets	$3,170,561

 

It’s not true that the executive compensation is that far out of whack. $4.2M is a small business and depending on industry, 20% is not that high. 

[CougarDadx2]

36 minutes ago, eers said:

It’s not true that the executive compensation is that far out of whack. $4.2M is a small business and depending on industry, 20% is not that high. 

Sign me up, if that is your compensation base on $4M, having owned and run a few, 20% is generous. Let's set small business aside, and compare apples to apples:

Georgia High School Association, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 12.6% (on $5.0MM)

Kentucky HSAA, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 7.5% (on $3.5MM)

Alabama HSAA, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 2% (on $7MM) WOW - those Alabama people do some serious volunteering when it comes to sports.

Largest Non-Profit Sports League in Middle TN: Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 6% (on $1.5MM)

I don't know what more to say, I think the facts speak to my point.

[eers]

1 hour ago, CougarDadx2 said:

Sign me up, if that is your compensation base on $4M, having owned and run a few, 20% is generous. Let's set small business aside, and compare apples to apples:

Georgia High School Association, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 12.6% (on $5.0MM)

Kentucky HSAA, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 7.5% (on $3.5MM)

Alabama HSAA, Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 2% (on $7MM) WOW - those Alabama people do some serious volunteering when it comes to sports.

Largest Non-Profit Sports League in Middle TN: Executive Compensation as a percentage of Revenue: 6% (on $1.5MM)

I don't know what more to say, I think the facts speak to my point.

But what defines “executive”? How many classify that different? There are too many variables. Maybe TSSAA has a higher executive salary percentage of overall pay, but may have 8 people classified as executives where Alabama may have 2, with a higher overall employment number  I’m not saying they do, but this to me proves nothing other than I too can manipulate numbers to make it look like something completely different. ANY data can be skewed to be used as proof data.

This is all just silly to me and we’re not getting anywhere (as is the case every year) other than “TSSAA bad” and “If I were in charge”. Still no viable alternative presented. Guys, that’s my point. We compare data. We look at numbers. We make it sound the way we want it to. YET no one presents a solution. It’s all whining and complaining because someone thinks they deserve something different. They deserve more. We’ll present something that is better overall and has a real scenario attached. Not just TSSAA less, schools more. That’s quite elementary. 

[BoosterClubPlayersSuck]

i'll say what yall tell everyone who gives honest criticism about players or coaches. "they do the best they can" 

[CougarDadx2]

12 hours ago, eers said:

But what defines “executive”? How many classify that different? There are too many variables. Maybe TSSAA has a higher executive salary percentage of overall pay, but may have 8 people classified as executives where Alabama may have 2, with a higher overall employment number  I’m not saying they do, but this to me proves nothing other than I too can manipulate numbers to make it look like something completely different. ANY data can be skewed to be used as proof data.

This is all just silly to me and we’re not getting anywhere (as is the case every year) other than “TSSAA bad” and “If I were in charge”. Still no viable alternative presented. Guys, that’s my point. We compare data. We look at numbers. We make it sound the way we want it to. YET no one presents a solution. It’s all whining and complaining because someone thinks they deserve something different. They deserve more. We’ll present something that is better overall and has a real scenario attached. Not just TSSAA less, schools more. That’s quite elementary. 

To be clear, my point was to address your initial statement:

"If you’re going to complain about something, propose a solution, with real scenarios and some kind of fiscal solution."

I have not offered a solution, nor have I attacked anyone or TSSAA. I read the last 5 words of the above statement which drove my curiosity about TSSAA finances. Which I then researched and posted here, with commentary. The information provided was holistic in form with no manipulation, allowing others to come to their own conclusions. Furthermore, section VII of form 990 clearly outlines what falls under executive compensation (both current and past), thus your classification comment is invalid. You may want to ensure you knowledge of business and process are sound before you accuse someone of manipulating / skewing data.

My commentary is my opinion from 35 years of being a business owner, equity partner, shareholder, executive and non-profit founder / executive, in companies both public and private.

I clearly understand TSSAA concern (I would say panic if it were me) following FY2020, an $800K loss and operating capital falling to less than a year of operating expenses is getting close to insolvent. However, the following year has presented a rebound. With all this said, my point remains, executive compensation is higher than similar organizations & business. The only solution for this would be for the Board of Directors to commission a study on Executive Compensation, do the work and recommend a "right sizing" of the Executive Positions, Compensation or both. In my opinion this would net $200K - $300K savings annually. Which puts TSSAA in a better fiscal position, sooner.

It's Friday, we have football tonight. Let's hope the rain does not dampen folks desire to come out and what the teams play!

Go Cougars! Go Blaze!

[cbg]

31 minutes ago, CougarDadx2 said:

To be clear, my point was to address your initial statement:

"If you’re going to complain about something, propose a solution, with real scenarios and some kind of fiscal solution."

I have not offered a solution, nor have I attacked anyone or TSSAA. I read the last 5 words of the above statement which drove my curiosity about TSSAA finances. Which I then researched and posted here, with commentary. The information provided was holistic in form with no manipulation, allowing others to come to their own conclusions. Furthermore, section VII of form 990 clearly outlines what falls under executive compensation (both current and past), thus your classification comment is invalid. You may want to ensure you knowledge of business and process are sound before you accuse someone of manipulating / skewing data.

My commentary is my opinion from 35 years of being a business owner, equity partner, shareholder, executive and non-profit founder / executive, in companies both public and private.

I clearly understand TSSAA concern (I would say panic if it were me) following FY2020, an $800K loss and operating capital falling to less than a year of operating expenses is getting close to insolvent. However, the following year has presented a rebound. With all this said, my point remains, executive compensation is higher than similar organizations & business. The only solution for this would be for the Board of Directors to commission a study on Executive Compensation, do the work and recommend a "right sizing" of the Executive Positions, Compensation or both. In my opinion this would net $200K - $300K savings annually. Which puts TSSAA in a better fiscal position, sooner.

It's Friday, we have football tonight. Let's hope the rain does not dampen folks desire to come out and what the teams play!

Go Cougars! Go Blaze!

I would say that your numbers may not be exact, but they are pretty darn close.  IMO the executive director of the TSSAA (provided they are a real businessperson with business experience) should have a salary of around 200K per year and 2 people under the executive director that make no more than a principal in MNPS (they do have to live in the Nashville area) and maybe 2 or 3 secretaries that are paid roughly $25.00-$30.00 per hour plus benefits.  Everyone knows that the payroll of the TSSAA is way out of control!

[eers]

3 hours ago, CougarDadx2 said:

To be clear, my point was to address your initial statement:

"If you’re going to complain about something, propose a solution, with real scenarios and some kind of fiscal solution."

I have not offered a solution, nor have I attacked anyone or TSSAA. I read the last 5 words of the above statement which drove my curiosity about TSSAA finances. Which I then researched and posted here, with commentary. The information provided was holistic in form with no manipulation, allowing others to come to their own conclusions. Furthermore, section VII of form 990 clearly outlines what falls under executive compensation (both current and past), thus your classification comment is invalid. You may want to ensure you knowledge of business and process are sound before you accuse someone of manipulating / skewing data.

My commentary is my opinion from 35 years of being a business owner, equity partner, shareholder, executive and non-profit founder / executive, in companies both public and private.

I clearly understand TSSAA concern (I would say panic if it were me) following FY2020, an $800K loss and operating capital falling to less than a year of operating expenses is getting close to insolvent. However, the following year has presented a rebound. With all this said, my point remains, executive compensation is higher than similar organizations & business. The only solution for this would be for the Board of Directors to commission a study on Executive Compensation, do the work and recommend a "right sizing" of the Executive Positions, Compensation or both. In my opinion this would net $200K - $300K savings annually. Which puts TSSAA in a better fiscal position, sooner.

It's Friday, we have football tonight. Let's hope the rain does not dampen folks desire to come out and what the teams play!

Go Cougars! Go Blaze!

 

2 hours ago, cbg said:

I would say that your numbers may not be exact, but they are pretty darn close.  IMO the executive director of the TSSAA (provided they are a real businessperson with business experience) should have a salary of around 200K per year and 2 people under the executive director that make no more than a principal in MNPS (they do have to live in the Nashville area) and maybe 2 or 3 secretaries that are paid roughly $25.00-$30.00 per hour plus benefits.  Everyone knows that the payroll of the TSSAA is way out of control!

CBG, what you’re telling me is the salaries are in line with what they should be. If you wanted to make the argument that their are too many assistant directors, you may be correct. I really don’t know.

CougarDad… I too have a little experience with owning businesses, equity positions, founding a nonprofit, executive management, and global capital markets… but this isn’t a measuring contest.

So, here goes. We’re going to give the top three raises. The Executive Director will now make $200k/yr. The two new created Sr. Assistant Director positions will now make $125k/yr (in line with MNPS HS principals). This is our new executive committee. Total salaries $450k, or roughly 10.7% of revenue, which happens to be under the percentage for their GA equivalent. Now we move the other Assistant Directors to “non-executive salaries” and we’re still at that 40% of revenue number, which is not out of line for a small business, and no one questions anything. Everyone is happy, TSSAA makes more money and their numbers are in line with GA, so everything must be ok now. See how easy it was to give three people more money and skew that same data to give the appearance we want. If you simply showed those numbers in your argument, they too would be “holistic”. Data is easy to skew to paint the narrative you want others to see. Yet here we are with nothing changed.

Now, I think there are ways to improve any organization. To do so you have to know where you really are and where you need to be. Is there a real issue, or someone just upset about a couple tour buses and dinner? Maybe the problem isn’t TSSAA making too much money. Maybe the problem is the overall experience to the casual fan causing fewer people to attend. Lower attendance means less money regardless of how it’s split. If there were 4000 people at the game in question this would have never even been a thread, as their cut would have been $10k (which was more than the busses and food). Part of that may fall on the venue at hand and part of it may be cost of tickets. Part of it may be size of school and part of it may be quality of opponent. It may be weather related and it may be cost of the hotdog at the concession stand. It may even be having to pay for parking. Maybe if tickets are $8 you get 2000 people to attend. Each teams share still pays for those tour buses and dinner. There are just too many variables at hand for the answer to be “TSSAA makes too much money”. If you look at part of it, you have to evaluate all of it. You can’t have a micro solution to a macro issue. 

[cbg]

1 hour ago, eers said:

 

CBG, what you’re telling me is the salaries are in line with what they should be. If you wanted to make the argument that their are too many assistant directors, you may be correct. I really don’t know.

CougarDad… I too have a little experience with owning businesses, equity positions, founding a nonprofit, executive management, and global capital markets… but this isn’t a measuring contest.

So, here goes. We’re going to give the top three raises. The Executive Director will now make $200k/yr. The two new created Sr. Assistant Director positions will now make $125k/yr (in line with MNPS HS principals). This is our new executive committee. Total salaries $450k, or roughly 10.7% of revenue, which happens to be under the percentage for their GA equivalent. Now we move the other Assistant Directors to “non-executive salaries” and we’re still at that 40% of revenue number, which is not out of line for a small business, and no one questions anything. Everyone is happy, TSSAA makes more money and their numbers are in line with GA, so everything must be ok now. See how easy it was to give three people more money and skew that same data to give the appearance we want. If you simply showed those numbers in your argument, they too would be “holistic”. Data is easy to skew to paint the narrative you want others to see. Yet here we are with nothing changed.

Now, I think there are ways to improve any organization. To do so you have to know where you really are and where you need to be. Is there a real issue, or someone just upset about a couple tour buses and dinner? Maybe the problem isn’t TSSAA making too much money. Maybe the problem is the overall experience to the casual fan causing fewer people to attend. Lower attendance means less money regardless of how it’s split. If there were 4000 people at the game in question this would have never even been a thread, as their cut would have been $10k (which was more than the busses and food). Part of that may fall on the venue at hand and part of it may be cost of tickets. Part of it may be size of school and part of it may be quality of opponent. It may be weather related and it may be cost of the hotdog at the concession stand. It may even be having to pay for parking. Maybe if tickets are $8 you get 2000 people to attend. Each teams share still pays for those tour buses and dinner. There are just too many variables at hand for the answer to be “TSSAA makes too much money”. If you look at part of it, you have to evaluate all of it. You can’t have a micro solution to a macro issue. 

We agree on several points.  Yes, I would have 1 executive director and 2 assistant directors.  The other directors would be provided with a pink slip therefore permanently removed from the payroll.  There is absolutely no reason that the TSSAA cannot operate efficiently with 3 directors and 4 secretaries.  The payroll would be reduced by close to 50%.  One of the best ways to market high school athletics is improve the product on the field that participates in the playoffs.  Combine everyone back together into 4 classifications for football, basketball and baseball.  All private schools that provide financial aid or work study must play in 3A or 4A, no exceptions.  If you went to a 16 team bracket for the playoffs most every first round game would be competitive.  99.99% of marketing is having a great product to promote and this method would begin to attract large crowds.  The fan experience for the state championship games needs to be over the top!  It’s an absolutely must that people see a competitive game and have a great time with their families.  If the 4A state championship football game were played in Nashville there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn’t have 20 thousand fan in attendance.  

[eers]

13 minutes ago, cbg said:

We agree on several points.  Yes, I would have 1 executive director and 2 assistant directors.  The other directors would be provided with a pink slip therefore permanently removed from the payroll.  There is absolutely no reason that the TSSAA cannot operate efficiently with 3 directors and 4 secretaries.  The payroll would be reduced by close to 50%.  One of the best ways to market high school athletics is improve the product on the field that participates in the playoffs.  Combine everyone back together into 4 classifications for football, basketball and baseball.  All private schools that provide financial aid or work study must play in 3A or 4A, no exceptions.  If you went to a 16 team bracket for the playoffs most every first round game would be competitive.  99.99% of marketing is having a great product to promote and this method would begin to attract large crowds.  The fan experience for the state championship games needs to be over the top!  It’s an absolutely must that people see a competitive game and have a great time with their families.  If the 4A state championship football game were played in Nashville there is absolutely no reason that you shouldn’t have 20 thousand fan in attendance.  

While I agree 9 may be too many, I think 4 is too few. I would have to sit down and try to break that down and right now I don’t have the desire to do so. Lol