The MBA You Know

[rollredroll]

MBA sent a kid to Harvard in 2002:

 

http://www.montgomerybell.com/dept-college...choices2002.htm

 

The class of 2002 actually does not include students at Navy, MIT, Dartmouth, and Cornell (bigred11 was looking at a 5-year college matriculation list, I believe), but seven MBA grads have gone to those schools since 1998.

[Edited by rollredroll on 2-13-03 8:58A]

 

[Redtwin]

one thing you need to keep in mind is that many of mba's top students do not want to go to harvard. most of mba's students matriculate to large state schools because they feel that is where they can get the most traditional, well rounded college experience. mba had a student in 2002 that was excepted to harvard, but chose to go to unc. mba wins the moorehead almost every year, and has had some jefferson scholars as well. when mba students want to go to private schools, they usually choose schools like tulane, vandy, sewanee, w and l, and smu. mba students choose these schools because they are closer to home, have good greek systems and social scenes, have good school spirit, etc. most mba kids would feel out of place in new jersey or boston, so they don't look there. some do.

[Edited by Redtwin on 2-13-03 10:29A]

[bigred11]

dingo,

well put. i am sorry that i omitted Harvard from the list, and added a few colleges that previous students have gone to. excuse me rollredroll, a friend of mine attends the naval prep school, which is the precursor to the naval academy. i apologize for any confusion. also, i completely forgot to point out that Andover is a boarding school. thank you for expounding on my previous quotes. i have found your thoughts to be very interesting.

[Edited by bigred11 on 2-13-03 12:26P]

[Edited by bigred11 on 2-13-03 12:27P]

 

[rollredroll]

bigred11, I noticed that the Navy prep school was on the list for 2002 graduates. Unfortunately, the environment on this board at times can be tough and people will nail you on technicalities. I just wanted to set the record straight that MBA has sent kids to the USNA in past years, but not in 2002, before people started really nitpicking.

 

My intention was not to downplay the research you did.

[Guest Dingo]

rollredroll, Redtwin, bigred11, et.al.,

 

I am leaving this ball in your court. Thank you, so much, for making my prediction come true. I am sorry that I missed the Harvard thing; my list included all the NAIS schools in TN and I guess I just missed that it did not have an MBA graduate on its roster. Please note that such exclusion does not diminish the argument I have made and now give over to you.

 

In terms of MBA, I wish FlyBy would give up his previous arguments as wrong (i.e., an MBA graduate is automatically superior to his private/public school counterparts) and join this debate in support of what you as a group have posted. FlyBy is a uniquely intelligent person who should learn that he can stand on his own merits; his grasp of WWII military history is impressive, and I know that that perspicacity does not stop there.

 

To all the PM's I have received:

 

Thank you. Can I possibly encourage you to post your success stories here? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying about grammar, spelling, etc. But, please, read your own posts! You're all talking about your kids, not yourself! If this will help, I make the following pledge:

 

I will defend any who post here with intelligent responses in regard to the niggardly assumption that where you go to school somehow accords you a measure of superiority. If you are incorrect in the specifics of our language, I will still defend your logic. By "intelligent", I think I mean every single one of you; your PMs are about your sons and daughters, and to a man (no woman has responded, as yet) you admit that they have succeeded beyond what you achieved. I want to trumpet those successes! And I am not, I promise, limiting myself to just the athletic successes; those of you who have told me of what your child has accomplished with regard to board scores, grades, matriculation (this usually means where your kid finally decided to go to school, but what colleges accepted your child as a student is also important) need to understand that your information is equally deflating to those who would call us less-than-equal.

 

Tomorrow night, I promise, I will catch up on my PM's and respond in person. RHSfan, especially, I have some insights I wish to impart, as frail as I am. To the rest of you, I say simply, for now, you are right, except, that is, in according me accolades of which I am quite undeserving. The South in general, and Tennessee in particular, has no need to back down in shame from those who would demean us.

 

To you MBA guys: carry on the fight! Trust me, other NAIS graduates are depending on you.

 

Dingo

[Guest Dingo]

StanTrott,

 

I understand "lay-up." Thank you for the illucidation. Does the "belly-fake" metaphor come from football? I sincerely apologize for my unkind tirade against your referent; you made the logical assumption that I would understand your allusion, and I cannot fault you for that. I withdraw my acidic paragraph about John Wayne, Madonna, and my fat belly.

 

I am being sincere. I parade myself as a former athlete, and your literary device was both innocent and quite appropriate to your argument. I apologize. I received enough info from others to admit that I was wrong, and I confess that fact.

 

With regard to the rest of my post, I stand by it. I do have one thing to add, however. Your reference to my language as being inappropriate to a board dedicated to HS athletics is, I think, a bit unfair. So far as I can tell, profane expressions, if used judiciously to express profound emotional/intellectual argumentation, are generally acceptable as fare for children of high school age. If not, they (the students) would be excluded from enunciations of such personages as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Samuel Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Paine, Andrew Jackson, James K. Polk, Abraham Lincoln, Robert E. Lee, Theodore Roosevelt, Andrew Wilson, Calvin Coolidge, Franklin Roosevelt, George Patton, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush (either one), Colin Powell, to name a few (Americans only). PROFANE to be distinguished from VULGAR (forgive the fragment).

 

If I offended you, however, I apologize in the sense that I am sorry you were offended. I do not mean by that I will deviate from what I find to be an effective, and broadly accepted, means of expostulation.

 

To the rest of your objections, I leave my friends to elaborate.

 

Dingo

[rollredroll]

I am posting a link to an article that I think some of you may find newsworthy. The article is about Bill Frist, but makes references to MBA, as well as some northeastern schools, so I think it is somewhat relevant to the thread. Overall, I found it interesting to read a non-Tennessean view of Tennessee and our people.

 

Dingo, I think this article supports some of your theories. In particular, I think one of the underlying themes is that Bill Frist was going to be successful in life, whether or not he attended MBA.

 

Article

[Edited by coacht on 2-17-03 10:44P]

 

[BDURHAM]

Dingo,

 

Congratulations on misleading MBA grads to the assumption that their school is equal or superior to Andover. This must have been a tough sale, and only someone of your intellect and wit could accomplish this without any facts.

 

My focus on this board is football and the public-private debate. Too much time has been dedicated on my part to this drivel. In the near future I will complete some research on the two schools in question, and report back to you and your herd of fans.

 

To the MBA grads, I wish to state on the record that I consider myself of sound mind and body, and I know MBA is a great school. Some of my best friends graduated from MBA. It has produced some fine citizens. Anyone who has sent their son to MBA is to be commended. Education is important.

 

No "thinking" individual would state that Vanderbilt is Harvard's equal. I further propose that no one who has any first-hand knowledge of both Andover and MBA would state that MBA is equal to Andover. My position is not disrepectful of MBA.

 

Several outstanding students have graduated from MBA and done very well at Harvard. Harvard is not the only factor in my comparisons of the two schools. Yet, is it a matter of record that more students (using averages) from Andover attend better schools than graduates of MBA.

 

Since I am not in the habit of ranking secondary schools, I am doing some research. It is my assumption that Andover has superior test scores (SAT), more educated faculty, a more accelerated curriculum, better college placement, and more extra-curricular activities.

 

Do I think I am better than anyone because of a school I may have attended? Absolutely not. Some of the smartest people I know graduated from MTSU. But MTSU is not Harvard. Did I attend Harvard or Andover? No.

 

MBA simply doesn't have the history, the leadership, nor resources that are present at Andover.

 

One example of how I believe Andover is a notch or two above MBA: SAT scores. Andover claims that their last class had mean SAT scores of 672 Verbal and 686 Math. MBA claims a 650 mean for both Verbal and Math.

 

Dingo, nice try on comparing yourself to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Another belly-flop, mis-direction play. I don't think you will find vulgar/inappropriate word symbols in any of the people's writings you alluded to in your apologetic. If you say Ronald Reagan used such language in any of his written text, you not only will do a disservice to a great man, you will lose all credibility.

 

Saying it and writing it are two different things. Although I am certainly not offended by such language, I am surprised at your use and defense of such words on a message board. Admit you commited a foul, a moving pick or something that breached the rules of the game!

 

Here's another person who never had to resort to such language: John Wooden. Again, if you say he wrote such language to make a point, you are not only deceiving yourself, you would be deceiving the herd you are trying to lead off a cliff.

[Edited by StanTrott on 2-14-03 9:52A]

 

[bigred11]

dingo has not mislead me. i will put my alma mater up against any school you have and debate until my last breath seeps from my body. i have so much pride in MBA and its traditions that you probably could not begin to comprehend. MBA is just as good a school as Andover. i honestly don't think that you have as much information about MBA as you say you do. by the numbers alone MBA is just as good as Andover, even though Andover is over two times the size of MBA's upper school. MBA has gained its prominence without being a boarding school that can attract students from all around the country and world. gaining national recognition with a student body that is comprised of men from one city is quite remarkable.

 

i am just being curious, but what is your first hand knowledge of both MBA and Andover?

[FlyBy]

Dingo,

 

I think you are reading way too much into my messages. If I have communicated poorly, I apologize. I have stated that I believe that many smarter kids than I have graduated from other schools in the local area. Having said that, I still believe that MBA provides the best over all educational opportunity in this area. If that is what you mean by being arrogant, then you are way off base. I have made more than one negative statement about BA on this board; however, I have also made positive comments on that institution as well. As I stated before, I apologize if I have been communicating my position poorly, and I shall eat my words if that is the case. Before you make accusatory statements, be sure that you have all of the facts. Assumptions can be very misleading. Do not take any of my statements out of context.

 

As I said before, I apologize to you and to others for any harsh statements that are out of character.

 

FlyBy

[Guest Dingo]

StanTrott,

 

I begin to wonder if you are being deliberately obtuse or if you are actually a wunderkind who lacks the basic cognitive skills necessary for deliberative debate while possessing the intellectual tools necessary to be graduated from an admittedly fine educational institution. Nonetheless, I will try to answer your points one last time.

 

Sheesh! I wish that I had the capability to so easily mislead people of intelligence into my opinions. Might I suggest that while you castigate me, you demean those who are trying to respond to your arrogant claims of superiority?

 

Drivel? I think not; much to the contrary, I think it is opinions like yours that have led to the current split. "We are the superior group; we will survive." Beyond that, I know that parents and kids reading these threads have begun to rally behind the idea that they have nothing for which to apologize; it is a constant reality in the ideas first set forth in the Declaration of Independence and mirrored in our Constitution that RESULTS mean more than vague ideas of genealogical/opportunistic superiority.

 

With regard to your apologia regarding MBA and your subsequent remarks about MBA and Andover, perhaps you would like to qualify your means of measurement. Your stated standards seem quite insufficient to me. If you insist on using those, then I posit that I should be allowed to include the service academies on my side (in terms of post-secondary schools) and that monetary, geographical, genealgoical, etc. consideration be given to those schools outside your elite Seaboard institutions.

 

Dang, I admit I don't "think" that much, but if I had a son, and he went to Vandy, I think I would put his chances of success past college as equal to any Harvard grad. Granted, he might not have as many "automatic" doors open to him, but experience has taught me that those doors are more like traps unless you are prepared to use the opportunities they afford. If I had daughter, I would actually say her chances of success past college are better than a Harvard grad. But, of course, I'm not a thinking person, so my opinions probably don't count.

 

Dadgumit, Stan, there you go again. "Yet, is it a matter of record that more students (using averages) from Andover attend better schools than graduates of MBA." Only you and your kind get to decide what are "better schools." How can I debate you when the parameters of the debate are based on conclusions only those who agree with you set? You are right because X is superior; X is superior because of strange numbers based on accepted standards (accepted by people like you, who went to the same schools). Gosh darn, people like me keep calling for results AFTER THE FACT. Forget the fine, fine world of meaningless awards given to people of kind. Where did the winners go to school? (My answer: everywhere, including Harvard and Andover.)

 

Your research is going to be flawed, I suspect, because you already have your desired goal in mind. You stated as much in your post, so don't blame me for questioning your intellectual honesty. What is humorous to me is that none of the things you list as credentials of superiority are really honest measures of a substantive education.

 

Finally, an abject, absolute, unrestricted, and totally honest apology if I pretended to compare myself to any of the men I listed in my defense to your charges of unacceptable language. I did not mean to do so, and I retract any statement that suggested I did.

 

I will also admit to a foul, if it will satisfy you. I honestly have not seen my posts here as "written" opinion; quite the contrary, I have enjoyed being here because I have viewed the comments herein posted as free-flowing debate not clearly indistinguishable from what one would find on a battlefield or the caucus rooms in Congress. To elevate it to the written prose of declarative essays would require so much more time of me that I would be lucky to respond once a month, not to mention that I have not yet been able to figure how to italicize, much less footnote, hereon. In addition, I can say categorically that the errors in language, syntax, and dropped words, etc., that you can find on my posts would never appear in any written-for-publication I might produce. On the other hand, if we could include the private letters that the men I listed wrote that have been preserved for posterity, I would submit both Washington and Jefferson as exhibits 1 and 2 for my defense.

 

John Wooden??? No, you're right. Shift. I can barely keep up with you, but I concede to you the moral high ground and promise to abide by the rules you impose in all future posts.

 

Finally, "my herd." What an insulting ad homonym. If they respond, they are not thinking for themselves; they simply follow me. If they don't, I am left postulating an argument best left to others. Yep, you did go to Harvard and were educated in the best postulates of the American left (political, religious, philosophical, etc.); if we can't be right by fact, let's be right by definitions imposed by us (e.g., if you oppose partial-birth abortion, you are part of the religious right; if you support the idea that being President of the United States imposes some moral imperatives, you are part of a right wing conspiracy; if you agree with Dingo, you are part of his herd; if you think Isaiah was written by one prophet inspired by God, you are a religious fundamentalist; if you think Robert E. Lee was a great American, you are a bigot; if you think . . .). And, please, don't try to say I am putting myself as an equal to the causes I mention; I am simply trying, by analogy, to point out the fundamentals of reasoning you have been taught. If my analogy is stretched beyond credulity, please point out how that is so. Emotive and disingenuous argument is below you.

 

Dingo

[Guest Dingo]

FlyBy,

 

I had thought we had resolved our differences. In your previous posts, you either mispoke or I misunderstood your intent.

 

You are a thinker; you love your school; you love your country; you do not assume a superiority over anyone based the privileges you acknowledge you were fortunate to receive. I can only say that I look forward to anything you have to contribute to this or any other thread.

 

Dingo