DISGRACE

[wildcat1]

THe shot that Scooter had was great. it was a text book shot. had he only took his time and set creagan down easy he would have gotten his 2 for takedown, and maybe even if he played his cards right he could have gotten back points and won. There was plenty of time left.

 

As far as the call, I am a ref and the call was a good one. me might not have brought Creagan down with excessive force, but the wrestler in control is responsible for the the other wrestlers safety, especially on moves were one wrestler has the other in the air. Cregans head, or chin, was the first thing to hit the mat. If Scooter had dropped to a knee first and Creagan's head would have still hit then there would have been no slam. IT WAS A GOOD CALL.

 

In my opinion i think that scooter is a good wrestler and he ruined his chance of a definate 3rd place medal. And he might not even be able to wrestle next year, which is sad. Every sport is about winning and loseing and how you handle it. if you never lose and comeback from it then you are not a winner. Everybody loses. Now scooter may be banned from wrestling his senior year, and even if he does get to come back it is goin to hurt his chances of going to wrestle after high school.

 

What scooter did was a disgrace. There was no call for goin and puushing and kicking that stuff and endangering other people and wrestlers.

[BuckLateral]

TnMat------I'm glad to hear it was not you that made the posts that appeared on Sunday. Given your track record of posts (over 200 with no bad posts), I was surprised to see your name on them. It's fortunate that CoachT. had the problems with the site and lost all of Sunday's posts since I thought those messages were in poor taste and needed to be buried where the sun wouldn't shine on them. I hope others who might have seen the posts and thjink that you were the author return to this site and learn that it was not you. And I hope CoachT. figures out who the culprit was------that kind of stuff going on is a disservice to all of us who enjoy having this kind of forum available.

[Edited by BuckLateral on 2-17-03 1:00P]

[xxheat15xx]

Wildcat1,

 

I have the match on tape, and it is CLEAR that Creagan's hands and legs hit the mat well before his head and/or chin.

[Guest henryaardvark]

wildcat1 is correct. When you take a wrestler off his/her feet you must put your knee down before returning the wrestler to the mat. Picking up a wrestler high off his feet in folkstyle is a pretty risky manuever. There can be dividends if he is returned to the mat properly, and there are consequences if he is not. I did not see the match so I am not offering an opinion on the quality of the referee's call. I will say that the average fan tends to form their opinion on possible slams based on the appearance of the move instead of on the technical merits of the move.

 

Based on other comments in this thread this was not the first slam called on this wrestler. It is too bad he didn't understand that a folkstyle wrestler should only be lifted barely off the mat. This minimizes the risk of a slam call, but still offers all of the potential for a takedown or better.

 

As to the behavior of Houston, am I surprised........no. Am I disappointed.......yes.

 

Preferred ending. About 10 years ago in the PA championships a wrestler in the 145-171 range named (James?) Kocher lost a semifinal match after performing an illegal slam. The other wrestler was unable to continue because of the slam. Kocher showed disappointment, but he handled the situation without doing anything foolish. There was great controversy at the arena over whether it was a slam or not a slam. Also in question was the ability of the slammed wrestler to continue the match. Kocher was well ahead at the time of the slam and no one in attendence felt he would have lost a continued match.

 

The winner/injured wrestler was able to win his finals match on the next day. Kocher pinned his opponent for third place. On the the medal's podium after the new state champ had the gold medal put around his neck, he took it off and went over to Kocher and hung it around Kocher's neck. This is what the sport needs.

[JustWrestle]

WOW! What an awesome story! What a great ending! You are right, that is what this sport is about, that is true sportmanship. I don't know that many other wrestlers would have done it, but that is awesome!

[Guest ACS]

I am an official and from the meetings that I have attended and the official's that I have to talked to about illegal slams the "knee rule" isn't really a rule. When you lift another wrestler off of the mat you are responsible for bringing him back down to the mat safely. It cannont be done with excessive force either, remember a wrestler can hit his hands to break his fall and still be slammed with excessive force. It is all a judgement call and 90% of the calls in wrestling are. Scooters call was a questionable call but I think it was the right one. I haven't heard it in these posts but I did at the tournament that the situation should have dictated the call with it being the 3rd period with so little time left. If it is a slam in the first period it is in the third period with 10 seconds left.

[xbody91]

ACS is correct. The so called "knee rule" DOES NOT EXIST. If you lift your opponent off the mat you are responsible for his safe return to the mat. Read the rulebook and then comment on the rules.

 

xbody

[Edited by xbody91 on 2-17-03 6:58P]

 

[Guest henryaardvark]

I can't see where wildcat1 or I referenced the rulebook, but whatever.

 

Perhaps what I should have said is this: a dominate wrestler keeps control of the match in his hands rather that looking for favorable decisions from a ref. He learns techniques that get points and avoids situations that can be penalized. Throwing elbows at the start of a switch, wrenching reproductive organs, high lifts, etc. deliver one message to the other wrestler, but these kinds of moves deliver another kind of message to the ref. They force a ref to make a decision. After any decision by a ref, there will be 50% or so who agree, and the rest will disagree. The best wrestlers don't allow others to make or break their matches.

[xbody91]

Wildcat said:

 

"I'm a ref.............If Scooter had dropped to a knee first and Creagan's head would have still hit then there would have been no slam"

 

Henryaardvark said:

 

"wildcat1 is correct. When you take a wrestler off his/her feet you must put your knee down before returning the wrestler to the mat."

 

Souded to me like you both were quoting a rule or at least referencing one. I was just making the point that I see a lot of people saying that "the rule is this" or "the rule is that" and they have never actually read the rule book.

 

 

xbody

[Guest henryaardvark]

peace. shall we just give it up. seems like everyone agrees that the wrestler in control has the resposibility to return the other fellow to the mat safely.

[xbody91]

Sounds great to me!

 

xbody

[Red81KPsmash]

That match took place 8 days after Scooter had returned from football and was not in wrestling shape.