rcpatriot Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 i am tired of people saying that this one incident has put a blackeye on our sport. do you really think this is the only time something like this has happened in wrestling? do i agree with scooters actions? NO!! i also understand he is not considered an adult yet and is still in need of guidance and counseling. all of you have and/or heard of ADULTS in other sports displaying this kind of behavior, whether it be coaches or parents. should it be tolerated? NO!! what do we do about it? put scooter on probation, reguire him to get anger management counseling, and suspend him for 2 matches. no one got hurt, and scooter is the one having to pay the price for it. should the price be expulsion from the sport? NO!! scooter will have to live with this for the rest of his life. try to help the kid instead of giving him no reason to fix his problem. if we expell scooter from the sport, are we not saying that it's not our problem? it is OUR problem and should be dealt with, carefully. not put it in a closet and think it will never stick it's head out again. these kind of actions will continue to happen in every sport, work place, on every highway, etc. i firmly believe that it's up to TSSAA as to how much of a scar this puts on wrestling in Tennessee. no matter what their decision will be, there will be people thinking that it was too tough or not tough enough. to me, if they exspell scooter from the sport, TSSAA will be putting a blackeye on the sport. if he was your son, what would you hope ronnie carter & company would do? be honest!! for the betterment of the kid, rcpatriot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkenvol Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Smoke - Is the question "what is an appropriate punishment"? 1. I didn't take his actions personally. 2. I don't feel that one teenager's mistake damages the entire sport. There are very clear rules concerning sportsmanship in wrestling. He broke them and was dealt with accordingly by the rules. 3. I never want any high school kid to be punished to send a message to other kids. I feel that the punishment is none of our business and should be between the young man, his family, his coach, his school and the TSSAA. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smokediver Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Honestly.....I wouldn't need Ronnie Carter to help me make the decision. My son would not step back on the mat. You are correct. There have been incidents before. None that I remember that mirror anything this severe, but does that mean we are just supposed to forget that it never happened? As far as giving him a reason to fix the problem...that ought to be pretty simple. If he had done this as an adult outside a TSSAA event, he would not have just gone home but gone to jail. Like I have mentioned before, his actions have disrespected all of us who have ever walked out on the mat before. All of us who have set the bar and the example for everyone else. Just remember what ever punishment is given will set a prescedent for others in the future. Lets put an end to this type of behaivior now. [Edited by Smokediver on 2-20-03 4:58P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smokediver Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Being an official, former wrestler, avid fan and parent I think it is my buisness as well as everyone else who supports our sport. Wrestling is a small community for the most part. If you are involved then it is your buisness as well. It's not just about making an example but about the entire athletic community putting their foot down and saying enough is enough. Kids have been given the pat on the back for so long and allowed to continue that punishment now is often mocked. If I may quote an earlier post..."When are we going to quit feeling sorry for the guy who committed the crime?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUMMELKING Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Was it a bad call, I would not have called it. I was sitting across the mat and saw what happened. It appeared that Creagan did not move on the whistle and Houston got in on him and the next thing he was being lifted and taken to the mat. It was like Creagan did not even try to resist and put his hands down further away from his face for support---more like he was expecting Houston to get cautioned for false start. It has always been evident that all good wrestlers usually put their hands down to support a fall. Not takeing away from Creagan he is a good wrestler but must have not been ready at that point in the match--which we all must wrestle from whistle to whistle. Old Saying-----THE BEST NEVER STOP SHORT!!! Yes I am a referee with 17 years experience and can call a slam also but I dont feel like it was, but we are all given our own choices. Yes his family has right to grumble about him feeling he has been unjustly done the past two years. The behavior afterwards IS totally unacceptable, but I can also see where he is coming from. As a wreslter I have had several decisions made against me and one cost me a state title(which the referee came up to me the next year and admitted he was wrong in his call--alot of good it did a year later but I knew I was right was the main thing). So Scotter must always know in his head and heart that he did not lose that match it was taken away from him by other persons. Which we all make mistakes but we must learn from our errors. Next time dont let the match come down to the final seconds. I have seen his family wrestle for years and watched them all compete with the fire and desire to never accept losing--which I greatly admire. In this day and time the kids need to be upset and mad when they lose, never get in your head that finishing second is good as long as you give your best effort. I like to strive for perfection--never stop until you have reached all your goals. Wrestling is not everything--it is the only thing!! It sets out boundries in life and lets us live life to its fullest. It is not a sport for the weak or timid, when something hurts turn over--who needs all the potentially dangerous holds. Need I say anything else about Mr. Creagan who made a scene all of himself when he added fuel to the fire when he was clapping in Houstons face, but this a whole different route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sly Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Smokediver, I don't think anyone thinks he shouldn't be punished I think most people think that the punishment should fit the crime though. There have been numerous incidents of biting, cusing and hitting of opponents over the years and I don't know of anyone being banned from wrestling because of it. Was Houston wrong? Of course he was. Should he be punished? Of course he should. Should he be banned? There are rules and he broke them. There are punishments that goes along with breaking the rules and he'll recieve his punishment from the TSSAA. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 I was there too, was watching the match and saw the call. To me, it really doesn't matter whether the official's call was correct or not, he's still the official in charge. Houston's behavior violated the rules of wrestling and decorum. I'm sure the situtation will be reviewed and appropriate action taken by TSSAA. His parents can take care of the rest. But I have a question: what action will be taken against the guy with the scruffy, long, yellow hair who was wearing a black shirt? He looked as if he was trying to incite an incident with someone in the crowd, waving and gesturing at the crowd. His behavior was reported to a TSSAA guy in a maroon shirt (late 50's to early 60's man with white hair) by a spectator near me. Then the spectator was told the yellow headed guy was escorted out. Obviously not. He appeared later sitting in the middle of the floor next to a woman and a video. If this guy was removed, why was he allowed back? His behavior was worse than Houston's because he was an adult, and he sure could have caused problems. Is he a TSSAA official or big shot? If he is, he's sure a bad example. If not, why was he given preferential treatment. Houston was sent out. What about the yellow headed guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpatriot Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 i don't believe anyone is "feeling sorry" for scooter. i do believe that the punishment should fit the crime. DID anyone get physically hurt during all this? not that i am aware of. mr. hanson, you asked "if he were an adult", he's not! he's a junior that will continue to make bad judgement calls. additionally, your son wouldn't do that? you mean, you hope your son wouldn't do that. i doubt that scooters parents expected him to come unglued like that also! smokediver, you said your son wouldn't step back on the mat. if ronnie carter said your son could wrestle next year, after doing this, and it was your son's senior year with the potential to wrestle in college, you wouldn't let him? BULL! mr. hanson & smokediver, i know a little bit about the law and can assure you that if scooter was an adult the punishment he would have gotten would have been very similiar to that which was stated in my previous post, plus a fine. my next question for both of you. will ronnie carter sanction mr. creagan for his actions? expell him from any matches next year? his actions were terrible also! he's an adult? shouldn't he know better than to taunt teenagers? sure he should. will he be punished for his actions? that should be interesting to see. looking forward to your responses. rcpatriot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerpro1 Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Trackman. The man you are referring to is Creagan's father and his hairdo is called a mullet. He was not at his best after his son's match. For further information on the "do" see http://www.mulletsgalore.com/ He's a rabid Bradley Fan but then that's redundant. I really think he got carried away after watching his son have his head bounced on the mat. I doubt if he's overly proud of his own actions after the match. [Edited by soccerpro1 on 2-20-03 6:29P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACS Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 The guy with the yellow hair and the lady with the camera are Cregan's parents. If anyone reads the paper, you would have read that Ronnie Carter said that Houston would miss the first two matches as required by the rules and he said the clock incident MAY bring about more punishment. A wild guess is he misses 5 matches next season. I think the embarrassment he has brought upon himself and his family along with whatever suspension he gets is enough, but don't ruin the kids chances at a college scholarship because of one screw up at a very emotional time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelTavian Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 The talk of this kid getting banned next year is extreme and wrong in my opinon. He's a kid. He made a mistake. Give him some punishment and move on. If he does it again take him out of the sport. I'd be willing to be he won't do it again. And if the TSSAA is stupid enough to ban him I'm sure he'll just move to another state and wrestle. It's not like they control the whole country. He's a kid. He deserves another chance or even two. Everyone should get off his case. Del. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenBee Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Isn't going to decide this matter...I've been asked to lock this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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