Challenge Cup

[garyjkel]

I know that the coaches for the 3rd/4th grade team are Bill Kennedy, Sharpshooters and Kevin Emily, Mighty Warriors. I know a couple of the kids on the team but I'm not sure of their entire lineup.

[babybearmom]

Just wondering. You know it was a selection process this year, and I know of a kid that won in Murfreesboro and several other tournaments this year who was not asked.

[Guest AmericanDream]

It appears that the coaches are the ones who selected the teams. I hate to say this about wrestling but it kinda reminds me of all-star baseball. What criteria was used for selecting the wrestlers? I guess more importantly what criteria was used for picking the coaches who in turn picked the wrestlers? Some coaches I've heard of but others I've never heard of. I've also heard that some wrestlers named to the team may not have even attended a FCI event or has never won a FCI event. I called a couple of coaches I know that have been associated with FCI and asked these questions and I was told that some coaches that where named as FCI team coaches that their teams weren't part of FCI and that even some coaches were just dads that have never even wrestled or coached wrestling but had son's that were good wrestlers. I guess with that criteria those kids mothers would qualify as coaches as well, nothing against mothers, I love mine. I was also told that this year the teams were supposed to be selected and that the State tournament wasn't a qualifier anymore and that the teams would be selected by the coaches. As far as how the coaches were selected was unknown. FCI could have a good thing with the Challenge Cup but if it chooses to model itself like little league all-star baseball then I feel there will continue to be many questions and problems. Lets hope those who have a voice in FCI will do something so things will improve for next year.

[jltemple]

All I can speak to is the 7th and 8th grade team. 99% of the wrestlers who are on the Tennessee team were individuals who did win at the state qualifier, and wrestled FCI. The other 1% was when a person who won a particular weight class was not going to be able to wrestle at the challenge cup, so a replacement had to be found for him. Also, I know that alot of phone calls were made to try and find someone who would agree to coach. Only because alot of people did not want the responsibility. The people who are coaching that team are actual FCI coaches, and are willing to spend the extra time for the kids.

So all in all, it was done very very fair, and not based on a little league all star team.

 

The bad thing is the people that don't bother to show up for the state tournament, or most of the tournaments, but still want to complain that they aren't on the team.

 

So I don't know where you get your information, but it is not the case for the 7th and 8th grade division.

[BayouBear]

I will try to explain the current selection process for the Tennessee Challenge Cup Team but keep in mind I am just a parent / coach / volunteer, not an FCI official.

 

In previous years, Future Champions held a tournament that was called The Cup Qualifier. The winners at each weight in each division were asked to be a member of Team Tennessee. If a wrestler declined, then the wrestler finishing second was generally asked and so on. This method of selection, while fair, did not always produce the most competitive team. Certain age groups often found it difficult to compete with the out of state teams which were hand picked.

 

Beginning this year, it was decided by FCI to eliminate the Cup Qualifier Tournament and simply hold a State Tournament. Selection for participation as a member of Team Tennessee would no longer be tied to victory in a single tournament. The goal was to assemble a team, in each age group, of the best wrestlers from across the state. Coaches for each team were selected by FCI. These coaches then made the selections.

 

While I agree wholeheartedly that an open selection process is the best method. I do, however, believe the process can be improved upon. The coaches of the 2nd & Under, 4th & Under and 6th & Under Teams are basically limited to those wrestlers who compete in FCI tournaments. There is little other means to judge the ability of a wrestler or to become aware of non-FCI wrestlers. The selection of the 8th grade team is somewhat easier because of middle school exposure and years of competition. Despite these advantages, I will be the first to admit that deserving wrestlers were possibly left off the 8th grade team. Knowing and understanding the problems in the selection of the 8th grade team underscores the problems with open selection in the younger age groups. Mistakes and oversights are going to be made because of the limited knowledge and ˜field of vision˜ of the coaches.

 

As I said, improvements can be made to the selection process, but I also understand this is the first year of new process and we all can learn from this years˜ experience and many of those involved will have input into how the process can be improved.

 

I do have a few ideas of my own but I do not think this is the best forum for those discussions. My e-mail address is below for anyone wishing to provide suggestions or input. While I have No Authority with FCI, I will cetainly do my best to pass along any suggestions to those that do.

 

The teams for this year are set. Any ideas, suggestions or general input will only impact future teams.

 

BayouBear

Glenn Spain

GSpainAMC@aol.com

[Guest AmericanDream]

jltemple or whoever you are, If you'll read carefully I was responding to babybearmom regarding the 3rd and 4th grade team. You are obviously associated with the 7th and 8th grade team which I know little about except for the fact I was told that one of the coaches for that team never even participated in their clubs practices and as a matter of fact has never wrestled or coached wrestling in his life and I got that information from a high school coach associcated with that program. Because a parent has a coaches card doesn't qualify him to select the teams either. I also know that a kid that won his weight at the state is being bumped out of the lineup by a wrestler that didn't win at another weight in the 3rd&4th and 7th&8th grade divisions. Some wrestlers never heard from the coaches if they were selected for the team until late in the next week which I'm sure made it difficult for everyone. The point I tried to make is that with a qualifier those who want to wrestle will show up just as you stated in your post(all but one) and qualify but when kids who did win as in the case mentioned by babybearmom (3rd and 4th grade) and wasn't asked to be on the team then that just like all star baseball. Also, how do you explain that the high school team is close to if not 100% from the Chattanooga area. In order to avoid these questions and complaints we should let the wrestlers settle it on the mats the way it's supposed to be.

[Edited by AmericanDream on 3-27-03 12:18P]

[rcpatriot]

bayoubear, boy did i stir things up! sorry! just wanted to know what the process was on picking the teams. particularly, the 4th grade team. sure you can understand why?

thanks for the info.

 

rcpatriot

chris adams

[babybearmom]

Once more in my own little way I have managed to ask a simple question and kicked over a hornets nest.

All I questioned was the selection process for 3rd and 4th grade. I wasn't affected by it either way, I was just on the sidelines and wanted some clarification.

I don't have a problem with whoever is coaching 7th and 8th grade teams. Its been my experience that whoever has any wrestling knowledge and the time and the inclination is welcome to help coach.

I was there in Murfreesboro and knew that it was no longer a Cup Qualifier, but was still " corrected" by several parents. I tried to explain that things were different this year then, but obviously no one listend.

BayouBear, didn't mean for the heat to come your way, and I know Justin earned his way to the Cup.

[SilentJohn]

" was there in Murfreesboro and knew that it was no longer a Cup Qualifier, but was still " corrected" by several parents. I tried to explain that things were different this year then, but obviously no one listend."

 

Hey dont feel bad. I saw my friend the coach last night and he mistakingly believes one of his 8th graders made the team because he won at M'boro. I've seen the roster and he isnt on it.

 

This just underscores what a lousy job the promoters of this thing do of communicating with the wrestling community, not to mention the lack of promotion of this "nation level" event.

[3MatRats]

FCI has a State Championship which is truly just a "starting point" for determining who will be on the K-8 teams. Unfortunately this means we start preparing as a team and coaches only two weeks prior to the Challlenge Cup. Coaches can then pick and choose who they feel will make the best team for this event.

 

Here are some interesting observations from this weekend.

 

The majority of K-2 & 3/4 wrestlers from AL & GA were not the same kids we faced during the FCI tournaments.

 

Th NJ 3/4 coaches have known for nearly a year that they were going to coach the Challenge Cup. The kids they brought have been training together as a team for the better part of the past year. The were undeafeted and won the cup for 3/4.

 

This "team" training was very evident during the 7/8 TN-MI match where you consistently saw the same style of cross-body techniques used.

 

Having just returned from the Challenge Cup where Tennessee overall had a miserable showing, we have a long way to go before we can make a consistently good showing on our home turf.

[TojoYamamoto]

Art Johnson and Glen Spain did a great job considering the amount of time they had to get the team together.

[W4L]

The reason that the majority of the highschool wrestlers came out of the Chattanooga area isthe fact that the Chattanooga and surrounding area is the hotbed of wrestling in the state of Tennessee. Look at how many state champions came out of this area and how many medalists came out of this side of the state. That is the reason behind the selection was made. There was some last minute changes and additions in the line-up. Coach Lennon had to scramble around and find some guys to fill the holes.