private vs. public

[GotGame]

Ok i have said my spill a few times on here but i want to focus on thsi issue and see what you private blondmen say about this.I really would like a direct answer not a change of subject.Here is my question and give me an answer and why please..Do you think that private schools have an advantage on getting kids to come and play at there schools ...why?and my second wuestion is..Do you think most private school recrute(that includes getting there kids to come there in the 7th grade and begin playing for them)??/

[rollredroll]

Private schools have an advantage in that they can, in theory, take anyone they want. However, they are disadvantaged in that most hold prospective applicants to high academic standards (stanines, entrance test scores, etc.) and/or, in the case of DI privates, financial wherewithal to attend the school. The great student/athlete from a lower income family and/or with poor grades, less than average intelligence, etc. is virtually guaranteed admission to a public school; the same cannot be said for entrance to a private school.

 

Do private schools recruit? In the bad sense of the word (e.g., money/jobs under the table), those for which one could provide evidence do. Most privates have the name/reputation that the students seek them and not vice versa. Entry to private schools is so competitive that having the ability to afford to go to a private or having a kid with strong scores or having alumnus/a status doesn't guarantee entry. Trust me; I have experienced it firsthand. In fact, some schools (even at the grammar school level) are so focused on smart students AND the parents' ability to give money that they are missing out on the so-called "star" athletes.

[robjim]

Yes, private schools have many advantages.

 

Parents pay to send their children there(over and above the federal, property and sales taxes that they pay for the public schools), so the parents are more motivated to see that this/their school excels.

 

Private schools can emphazise those areas that the parents are interested/agree with. Religion, athletics, drama, college prep or "a name" to list a few.

Smaller class size.

An administration that listens to them.

Facilities.

Staff.

Closer to home.

 

Do all students who come to Private schools for athletics only? Some, but not the majority, unless that school is promoting athletics as a key feature or component.

 

Do private schools recruit? Yes, the ones that are sanctioned to do so, I'm sure do(DII). Do the DI 1A and 2A schools recruit, like the DII schools are sanctioned to? No, not like the DIIs, but I think there are many ways to "recruit" at the DI level. As Bill Clinton said," depends on you defination of what "recruit" is."

Here is the one area that I've always had a problem with in these dicussions. Everybody "knows" they do. I know what goes on at my school, but I don't know what goes on at any others. Do I see them winning State Championships? Yes. Do I see some DI private schools winning a number of State Championships? Yes. Makes me wonder, but I can't "prove" it. Makes me wonder, but I can't get anyone else to "prove" it either, other that point out how many championships that team won. I just bothers me that the only reason ever given to why these teams are successful is that they recruit, proven or not. There can't be anyother reason.

 

So, I guess the 1A and 2A schools will be moving on and the playing field will become level once again. Will this stop all the complaining and everyone in 1A and 2A public will get along? No, I don't believe so. After a couple of years when the same successful public 1A and 2A schools start collecting multiple state championships, the same song, different verse will begin again. They will have some perceived "advantage" and will have to be reigned in to stop it or level the playiing field. Everyone must be the same. The underachiever must not be motivated to rise up to the level of the successful, the successful must come down to the level of the underachiever. After awhile there be no more scoring, because we can't have a winner or loser. Just players.

 

This was the main reason in 1986 I took my two children and moved them out of the public school system. I put them in a private school where they competed, both academically and athletically to excel. And they did.

 

GotGame, you got someone to answer.

[Edited by robjim on 3-15-03 9:56P]

 

[GotGame]

Thank you both for the responses and i would like more if anyone wants to give them but rob i have a question for you .You know how you say that in a few years you'll see the same song different verse(i think that you said)Why do we see no compliants from schools that are say in 3a 4a or 5a?

[robjim]

Let me also give you a good mark for joining Coacht Plus. Gotgame, read the posts about "open zones", as an example. Also, see the locked post about the Shelbyville Girls in the womens basketball area.

[tackle]

Some people have been complaining about Maryville for the last few years. Why? They have been winning.

 

There are many starters at private schools in Nashville who would not even play sports if they were to attend the large schools they were zoned to attend.

 

These kids would get lost in the crowd in the big schools.

 

It is still amazing to me that several schools(Brentwood High, Hillsboro and Overton) did so well in football when there were MANY kids zoned for those 3 schools who started at CPA, BA, FRA, Lipscomb,MBA, Ezell Harding...

 

Would those 3 schools have done better if private schools were not there? No one knows the answer to that question.

[Edited by tackle on 3-17-03 9:41P]

 

[37421]

I can't answer for every small 1A private school, but here is the information for where my kids are.

Does our school have an advantage in getting kids to come play sports? Only for one sport (football, for two of the last three years, otherwise we're quite average)

IF-

a) you can afford the tuition,

if you can pass the entrance exams (not too incredibly tough) and

c) if you get on the waiting list early enough or catch the right class with an opening.

Oh yeah, and parents have to choose our school over several magnet schools (and other private schools) in the Chattanooga area.

My honest opinion? You might get one outstanding athlete every 5 years due to these factors, and that is being very optomistic.

Do we recruit? Nope. Some families want their kids here for sports, sure. But the vast majority of these kids are hoping to just make a team, whereas at the 5A school they are zoned for they don't have a prayer.

On the basketball thread one person asked since they were moving into the Chatt area, which school would they be reccomended to. Several folks responded this school or that, then suggested an area to move to in order to attend this school or that. If it was me and my kid was a basketball player I'd be headed to Brainerd. If I had the money (and was Baptist) I'd be headed to Temple. Is that recruiting? Of course not! It is attracting and ALL schools do it, either intentional or not.

Supersteve said it best in another thread, no one gave a hoot about these advantages (real or otherwise) until a few schools started having some success. These things come in cycles.

The same recipe for success was copied from successful public schools and can be used in any school, anywhere.

Instead,they've made a federal case out of it (literally.) (Thanks for asking a straightforward and honest question. Sorry about the long response.)

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I started at Harding Academy in football and played on the basketball team. I was 6'1 195 pound tight end/defensive end. I played the 4 on the basektball team and I could not even touch the rim. I live about 2 miles from Ridgeway. Do you think I would have started on their football team at tight end? They won the state in 3A. They also have the best basketball team in AA. Do you think I would have played for their basketball team?

 

No one says anything when a guy like me goes to Harding and plays, but when someone who is 6'8 and 260 pounds does it, then it is recruiting. I'm telling you, I couldn't have played for Ridgeway.

[tophat]

This is a never ending discussion. What I want to know is how many kids that are recruited to any school (public or private) are seriously being used by the schools they attend. How many go on to college and a good life. Where they go is between them and their parents or guardians. I feel the TSSAA should take a look at each case and decide if it is beneficial for the kids involved. Who would stop a teenager from trying to better themselves by pursuing a better eduacation and environment.

[hayseed]

Being from a very small 1a rural school, we feel that it is a very big advantage to private schools that compete with us for sports. Last year in single A State basketball tourney, I believe that at least 4 or 5 of the schools were private. It's just too hard for small schools to have 10 - 12 competitive players year in and out. Even harder in 1A football. Yes, you might have a run by a rural school for a couple of years but not the kind of consistentcy the privates have each year. I just think they should have their own division for sports, and the true 1A schools compete against each other. They could move the privates up to 2A or 3A but I think that got veto'd by those divisions long ago. This is just an opinion not meant to offend the private school community.

[Edited by hayseed on 3-25-03 12:04P]

[TheEgoHasLanded]

No one will comment about my post I see?

 

Its ok for guys like me to go to a private school and play and be above average players...but if an all star happens to go there it is recruiting.

[robjim]

hayseed, good post with valid comments. Let me respond.

 

1. Yes, privates do have advantages over publics in 1A.

 

2. No, we did not vote on anything, since we don't have a voice in any TSSAA decisions. Only publics have a vote.

 

3. Our complaint is not about our consistancy/advantages, but about being accused of "recuiting" without any proof.

[Edited by robjim on 3-25-03 12:58P]