Terrible Refs

[leadoff]

of all the games i have been to the only terrible refs were both when we played Lebanon, im part of a large student section that is constantly cheering something, refs have told us before they like us and how we support our team, so Siegel usually gets pretty good refs regardless of where we play

[DelTavian]

This is definitely a dead horse. Unfortunately the school A.D. is the one responsible for hiring referees. Unfortunately the A.D. is sometimes as incompetent as the refs they hire. I have emailed and mailed numerous messages to the TSSAA about this issue. If refs are trying to throw you out and you are not shouting obscenties or being threatning, then they are violating your first amendment right to free speech. Understand this, the next time that you are asked to be quiet or are threatened to be escorted out...claim that they are violating your 1st amendment rights to free speech. LOL

 

I have refereed many games in my life and have played at most levels (minus NBA), which often helps you ref. It isn't easy, but that is not an excuse. Most refs don't have the courage to make the right call after they have messed up. We need to petition the TSSAA to have an accountability system set up for the officials. We also need a physical fitness routine for them too...maybe if we paid them more we could expect more??? Just a thought.

I hope all refs read this. This brings up a valid point. If I don't threaten you, cuss or call you a name based on your race, religion or something like that then I can say what I want.

 

If you throw someone out who hasn't done these things you would be subject to legal action under the First Amendment.

 

If this ever happened to me I would file suit against the ref, the law officers involved, the school that enforced the refs poor judgement on the rules and of course against the TSSAA.

 

I firmly believe the Grundy fan/father ejected in Pikeville Monday night should do this right away. I will be glad to testify for him.

 

This might be the only way to make those few refs out there with attitudes that they are not the "gods of the floor" and in total control.

 

Fans should never threaten a ref, cuss them or call them certain names. In turn refs need to have thick enough skin to do the job. If someone calls you pitiful that's not a reason to throw them out. After all, you just might be pitiful.

 

I'm sure there's carpetbaggers out there that would love to file suit against the TSSAA on something like this.

 

Del.

[shooter5]

The school A.D. does not hire the refs....they are part of a association which they place each official at a certain game....Yes there are terrible refs...but there are also terrible fans which rarely know the rules.....

[Pudding]

shooter5 is right.

AD does not hire refs. He might ask the area ref supervisor not to send him a particular ref again, but the supervisor is not obligated to him. TSSAA officials are independent contractors. Only the TSSAA board can make changes.

 

Del, since you brought this dead horse back so we can all have a good whine about a children's sporting event, what are you doing about it?

Edited February 6, 2004 by Pudding

[NUMBERONE]

No matter what a ref does right or wrong someone is mad at them. They are human and make mistakes too. If someone is calling you names and yelling at a mistake you make how do you feel? Yes this is there job to do but after all they do there best. It is not a easy job for noone. We all need to understand mistakes and treat them with understanding not bad feelings and words. Noone is perfect so why does everyone expect refs to be perfect. I think we all need to overlook mistakes made by refs just as parents overlook mistakes made by coaches. Can everyone say their perfect? I do not think a ref makes bad calls on purpose. There is 2 teams in a game and someone has to lose. It is always the losing team mad at refs. It may not be the refs, what about the coach that coached the team? Never throw blame at others it does not help anything. Refs do not do the job to hurt kids or anyone else. We all need to appreciate the refs for what they do and not do all the blaming on someone else.

[sportsfanman]

I've been watching games for a long time now. There are still "old men" that still enjoy seeing high school sports. I have several guys I know, from out in the public, that referee. With that being said, I'd like to bring out a few points myself.

 

First, liveaqua, the A.D. of a school does not hire the referees! They are assigned by a supervisor from the TSSAA. All the A.D., school administrators, or the coach can do is rate or scratch an official. No school "hires" an official at all. All they do is pay them before the night is over.

 

Second, Del, i've enjoyed your posts. I've been watching this site for years but just started posting this past fall. I'm all for 1st Ammendment Rights, but (and some of us have big butts - haha) anyone that has nothing better to do than yell and berate referees needs to get a life! Can anyone on this board honestly say that they would love to run up and down a floor for 3 hours while being "trashed" for trying to do your best. I have seen several games this year in which the home team's administration has pulled their own fans aside and asked them to "calm down". Also, I have seen others let their fans walk up to the court and unload on the referees. I love your comment that refs need to have thick enough skin to do the job. Many of the better referees I've seen around the nashville area do just that. Nobody should be subjected to being "trashed" or feel that they are being humiliated.

 

I saw a referee the other night that smiled and grinned at a parent, who was sitting behind the scorer's table, yelling at the referee when his son fouled out. I thought the referee handled it perfectly. During every time out, the more the parent yelled, the more the referee smiled and the parent got madder. It was handled well!

 

Lastly, I think we all need to keep things in perspective. Cheer for your team and disagree with the referees calls against your team, but don't make such a scene where you take away the focus off the kids playing. After all, the kids are the ones playing the game!!

[Big Mexican]

Yes, it is just a game and yes, noone is perfect, but the men and women that put on that striped shirt are doing it of their on free will. The last time I checked, this profession was not manatory for anyone. When they choose to get on that floor, they should do so prepared to take some abuse. I will be the first in line to critisize any fan for foul language or personal attacks, but vocally pointing out mistakes will always be part of this game.

[DISS78]

I also agree that it is a dead topic. However, I also agree with Del, some refs use poor judgement when handing out T's and throwing students out of games for yelling too much! I have to say the refs in this area are not very good at calling games but they have major self esteem problems. They have to be the MAN!!!!!!ON THE COURT!!!!

[addictedtosports.com]

Do these fans also yell at players when they make a mistake? When they miss a shot yell at them " Hey #32 your pitiful..............." , "Hey #32 what are you blind?"

[DelTavian]

shooter5 is right.

AD does not hire refs. He might ask the area ref supervisor not to send him a particular ref again, but the supervisor is not obligated to him. TSSAA officials are independent contractors. Only the TSSAA board can make changes.

 

Del, since you brought this dead horse back so we can all have a good whine about a children's sporting event, what are you doing about it?

Well first thing I'm going to do is talk to the parent tomorrow night and encourage him to file a suit. If he does it will bring a lot of this mess to a head. Then some of it will have to be looked at.....if he actually goes through with it.

 

Other than that I'm as limited as the next person when acting by myself. There's strength in numbers. Folks should unite in this cause and bring game tapes and complaints to the TSSAA by the truck load.

 

We should demand better. We should encourage more pay to have better refs. We should demand refs be graded and those not making the grade be only assigned JV and middle school games until they improve and if they don't improve within a certain time they should be forced out.

 

I can't do much by myself but if folks come together on this we could force change.

 

Del.

[SatchUmp]

We should demand better. We should encourage more pay to have better refs. We should demand refs be graded and those not making the grade be only assigned JV and middle school games until they improve and if they don't improve within a certain time they should be forced out.

 

Yeah, let's put the bad officials or "those not making the grade" into the JV and Middle School Games. Those games don't matter and the kids in those games don't care about the game as much as varsity players. Of course, this is sarcasm. The boys and girls from the 6th grade teams up to Bradley vs. White Station deserve the best possible. They do care a just as much as the varsity players. Those games are just as important to everyone involved.

 

A "good" official does not care what the level of the game is, in which he is officiating. Neither does he care who's playing. Now I know it's not a perfect world, and there are a great deal of old men who think they should only be officating varsity games. But dishing the bad refs on the younger kids is not the answer. Sure that's where the young officials start, and that's just the way it is. Younger officials aren't seasoned and thick skinned yet like they'll need to be. Being thick skinned, is in part, a learned skill, just like good mechanics and mastery of the rule book (and sure there are those out there that even after many years refing, still haven't aquired the skills). BUT, everyone is young at one time and everything is new when we start; we're not expected to be masters of everything when young. This is the only way to develop young officials (ie. younger TMSSA and TSSAA school games, preseason scrimmages, rec and Boys/Girl club game).

 

Now "bad" officials are another story. Have you heard that most regions are needing more officials? It's true. Let's say there's 100 officials in a given region. If all us complainers and yellers (including myself from time to time, I'll admit it) joined up and made the number 300 in the region... do you think the "bad" officials would continue getting games? I think the cream would rise to the top and the officials that weren't cut out for it would be thanked and told their services were not needed anymore. It's all about supply and demand. There aren't enough officials, so sometimes you get the bottom of the barrel.

And I'd bet if we asked the refs, more money probably would help the numbers joining every year and the quality of the refs. But this money comes from the schools, not the TSSAA itself, and I know I've attended football games and looked around at the crowd, knowing there wasn't enough people to even cover the current official's fees. There has to be 107 people at a varsity football game, before the official's money is covered. Believe me there are schools that don't even make it out of the red. I doubt the TSSAA, nor the schools would be happy about raising the money more than a few bucks every few years.

Hope this makes sense... it does in my head anyway.

 

The only resolution I know of is: Let's contact the TSSAA in Hermitage and get signed up.

[coachcornbread]

shooter5 is right. 

AD does not hire refs.  He might ask the area ref supervisor not to send him a particular ref again, but the supervisor is not obligated to him.  TSSAA officials are independent contractors.  Only the TSSAA board can make changes. 

 

Del, since you brought this dead horse back so we can all have a good whine about a children's sporting event, what are you doing about it?   

Well first thing I'm going to do is talk to the parent tomorrow night and encourage him to file a suit. If he does it will bring a lot of this mess to a head. Then some of it will have to be looked at.....if he actually goes through with it.

 

Other than that I'm as limited as the next person when acting by myself. There's strength in numbers. Folks should unite in this cause and bring game tapes and complaints to the TSSAA by the truck load.

 

We should demand better. We should encourage more pay to have better refs. We should demand refs be graded and those not making the grade be only assigned JV and middle school games until they improve and if they don't improve within a certain time they should be forced out.

 

I can't do much by myself but if folks come together on this we could force change.

 

Del.

If you sue the TSSAA for throwing a fan out and denying him his 1st ammendment rights then you will look like a fool when the judge throws it out for wasting his time. That is the dumbest idea that I have ever heard. If you really want to change the way that a game is officiated then simply become an official and earn your stripes, then you can get on here and complain about how the fans won't leave you alone.