Why was a chair thrown?

[walkenvol]

I wasn’t planning to make any additional comments on the matter, but since Tom Herring (patheon) has chosen to represent the McCallie staff on this subject, I am going to wade back in. I disagree with Tex’s statement that Tom is a person in the know. He is the middle school coach and was not in attendance in any of the meetings that occurred. Anything he states is either second hand information or his opinion to which he is entitled. BTW Tom, it doesn’t make it fair simply because you were forced to listen to someone’s protest. To be fair you have to have an open mind and consider other possibilities. What I have said to date and will say is the absolute truth, not my opinion. I challenge anybody in the know to refute anything I’ve said. I’ve thrown out no personal insults or attempted in any way to persuade anyone against McCallie or their coaches, all I’ve done is state the facts. If the truth reflects poorly on anyone, then that is their responsibility alone. Tom took offense that I “warned” others that may be considering McCallie of what happened. Maybe “informed” would have been a better choice, but any reasonable person should be able to discern the message. Whether the way the lineup was determined was right or wrong is up to the readers to decide for themselves and if they would want to be a part of such a program. Having lived through it, I know that I don’t. There have been several different folks on the McCallie faculty through these last 5 years that have demonstrated a concern and interest in my son above and beyond my expectations for which I am truly grateful but in light of the what has occurred this season, if I could turn back the clock and not send my son to McCallie I would not send him without hesitation. The folks that know him and know how much he has enjoyed his academic experience there should understand the depth of his injury from this. That’s a first hand testimonial from someone who has lived it, take it for what it’s worth. Someone inferred that if Spencer had won then this would have been a mute subject. Wrong again and this only farther demonstrates the lack of understanding on the matter by both this board and the coach. The larger issue to us was always fair treatment, that a senior in a program that had done everything that had ever been asked of him and represented himself and his school in the manner in which Spencer has demonstrated had earned the right to have a say in what was happening to him. Everyone in the history of the McCallie program had always had the right to a wrestle off or were ASKED to decide to forego a wrestle off. We signed up and paid $70,000 expecting the same. Without even the courtesy of a phone call, the rules were changed. In the automobile industry this is called bait and switch. We respectfully questioned what was happening and the reasoning why and were initially ignored by the coach until we appealed to the AD. Each time we appealed, the reason why they were doing this changed. Most of you appear to accept that the motive was to win the team title. While this may appear as an acceptable reason to some, this belief demonstrates ignorance of what is required to win a D2 team title. You must score from your entire lineup, not just ride the backs of a few horses. Do you really believe that the McCallie staff is ignorant of this fact? Last season McCallie lost with 5 champions and Baylor won this year with only 1 champion. Again, I’ve only stated the truth. Make of it whatever you choose.

[Chattcity]

Hard to argue with you jdd but if Manley wins, everyone says Coach C is a genius for structuring his lineup so that McCallie has 5 individual champs. Seems to me he took the risk and unfortunately, Manley loses. Gotta feel for Spencer in a situation beyond his control.

[ironman55]

Why was Andrew Smith allowed to dictate the line-up? Why were his "Promises" honored?

[mtnrasslin]

But, I thought Coach Connell was fullfilling a promise he made to another wrestler who took one for the team last year...and four out of five individuals are happy aren't they?

This has been said on this thread before and I still do not understand. How does someone "take one for the team" by getting a starting position that he otherwise would not have had and winning a silver medal for the effort?

Edited February 26, 2004 by mtnrasslin

[themessenger]

Well put Walkenvol and thank you for your candor. I would like to commend the Manleys on the fact that they didint allow this situatuion to come to a head during the season. But it is understandable why he now feels its time to get the truth out. It seems to me even though he was considered last and his team first, he kept this undercover and put his team before self even in the indiviual tournament. As a big Blue supporter this will always sadden me that this siuation came about. Hopefully it will not happen again and both sides will have learned a valuable lesson. I feel Spencer Manley has taught everyone a lesson in the meaning of character.

[WrestleSBA]

Hmm.. from the sounds of this it sounds like some other schools may have a chance at Walkenvol's younger son soon. This could have ramifications for much later down the line...

[RMC]

WrestleSBA.....I told him his youngest would look great in the green and white of Collins Hill!

[usfjim]

don't normally weigh in on this type thread without specific knowledge but having two sons go through two different wrestling programs since '96 on the left side, wrestle offs have always been the way to decide the lineups. the exception to this has been agreements between the coaches and wrestlers involved in a possible lineup change prior to an event.

 

i saw mccallie 52 spencer leave the mat after his match and could tell he was upset. this thread helps explain why.

 

good luck to walkenvol and his wrestling units in the future!

[WrestleSBA]

usfjim,

 

I have been trying to figure out exactly who your boys might have been since I joined this board. I have been involved in wrestling in the West for about 7 years now, would I remember having seen either of them wrestle? I won't ask you who you are but I think I might have an idea.

[pantheon]

Okay, first off, you guys need to start using paragraphs. My eyes are blurring!

 

Walkenvol is correct. My statements are based on my opinions and second-hand knowledge (correspondence w/ Walkenvol and conversations w/ others). I am a lowly middle school wrestling coach.

 

Walkenvol is again correct that I entered this conversation because an effort was made to discourage attendence at McCallie for wrestling. McCallie is a wonderful institution, for academics and wrestling.

 

Lets not make Spencer Manley a martyr. He has too bright a future for that. There is not a program in the country that hasn't had a wrestler that felt like he was done wrong some where along the way. This is a great time for everyone involved to re-evaluate themselves.

 

I look forward to watching Spencer perform at the NCAA Championships in the coming years.

[Brickhousechick]

It seems to me that the McCallie coaching staff are the ones who made him into a martyr.

[karelin]

…..I'll be praying for you in all of this; it is a really messed up

situation from both sides of the coin.

Love Lee (sent last night)

 

Hey daddy! I love you sooooo much!!! You are the best ever! Just thought I should e-mail you and tell you that& anything bad people say about you is all covered up and forgotten b/c the love I have for you is much greater than the hate some people may feel towards you!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(from my daughter, sent an hour ago)

 

I have taken criticism from a lot of people for years; I like to think that much of it is the normal jealousy and associated ridicule that comes with minor success. A lot of people have said some very harsh stuff on this post; I usually have fairly thick skin for this stuff, but when it affects my kids, I would like to ask that the criticism stop. I will attempt to explain a couple of things, probably lengthy, but not nearly the complete story. And, I’ll try to stay ‘on the high road’.

Basically when the season opened we had four guys, if given the choice of what weight to wrestle for the year, would have all chosen 145. It was Dec 5, a Fri that I sat the team down to explain the season-ending state tournament line-up. Each year we do body mass measurements (skin calipers, etc) to find which weight might be the best fit for each guy.

Andrew was the lightest, with Ryan right behind him, followed by Justin, and then Spencer. Ryan hasn’t grown any; he was 5 lbs(body mass lighter than Spencer) Any of these guys could win at 145, but someone needed to go down a weight and someone else up one/and two weights. The fact that Spencer was the biggest suggested that he go to 152 where the toughest challenge (Marable) would be, and 160 was doable for Ryan because the weight class wasn’t as challenging even though he would give up 15 lbs in the finals. This was only the second time in my coaching career that I superceded the traditional wrestle-off method. Sometimes the coach has to go out of bounds to put together his best line-up. Look at Okla. St this year, Kevin Ward won 3 wrestle-offs to the current starter, Hendricks. I know this is different, but John Smith is going with who he sees as the best wrestler, what’s best for the team.

There is no one in the state that deserved to win a state title more than Spencer; he is simply the hardest working wrestler we have EVER had in the room; the same goes for his time in the weight room too. Often he would have change into a dry t-shirt 4 or 5 times per practice. It is the combination of this work ethic and size/strength that I thought would lift him to another state title. Sometimes wrestle-offs create division among teammates, and I thought that by matching the guys to the competition would yield each guy an opportunity to win a title, not just 2 or 3 guys. I felt strongly that Spencer could beat Nick; I still believe he could’ve won the state at 4 weight classes(140-160).

I have never felt so bad for a wrestler not winning a state title than I do for Spencer. Our decision(philosophy) was to make this move for the team, BUT not at the expense of a wrestler’s chance to win an individual state title. It is the only time that I have ever been faced with this kind of situation; we are not talking about 4 good wrestlers, we are talking about 4 state champs and how’s the best way to fit them. Yes, Tim was upset, but we as a staff never worked so hard to prepare one wrestler for his quest at a state title, and we all knew he would win. Spencer is as tough as Ryan Scott and Ryan had only lost to Nick once(1-0); Spencer has more offense than Ryan, so we felt he would be harder to hold off. Spencer can be relentless as most of you know, and so we expected him to win by the same margin that Ryan did last year in the state finals. I told one of our coaches earlier last week, that I would rather see Spencer win his title than the team title. (At this point some maybe saying then why didn’t you let him go 145- because everybody had a chance to win their own title including Spencer-Spencer was our best chance to beat Marable, for reasons already explained). Since the state tourney, I have only thought about Spencer’s match, and not the narrow loss to Baylor for the team race. I hurt for Spencer because he will carry a sense of bitterness with him for a long time; I know, I am still somewhat bitter to my old HS for not lettering me or inviting me to the only athletic banquet of my Sr. year because I was caught smoking two weeks after the season(I never did it during season, and don’t today)

There is much, much more that can be said, but this is long enough. I will hold Spencer up to anyone who needs to see the efforts of hard work-to that example, he is the ultimate state champ. Again, it was a for-the-Team decision, but not intended to be at his expense.

And for those who don’t think the team title doesn’t means something, you should have been in the McCallie gym Saturday night when Baylor’s wrestling team walked in during the middle of the Baylor/McCallie basketball game, hoisting their State Trophy for their fans to see-they went wild, and this with a team that only had one champ.

This message board is far too negative; I believe that people should not use it to criticize others, but rather inform others. It’s okay to disagree, but why make personal attacks, especially behind the cloak and safety of a computer. Most who have made criticisms have no clue who I am. If you want to attack me further, please do so via e-mail (gconnell@mccallie.org), not on this board, at least for my kids sake.

 

Gordon Connell