For Once I agree with Ronnie Carter

[cw160]

How about this? Drop the playoff system altogether! Play whatever teams you want to play in your ten game season.

Why have playoffs? For ego?

[Crossings]

As an MBA supporter I can say I'd love to see the classes consolidated as well...but I don't see it happening. Seeing Riverdale, MBA, BA, CBHS, Germantown, McCallie, BGA, etc. all in one class would make the playoffs incredible.

[WesVLT]

As an MBA supporter I can say I'd love to see the classes consolidated as well...but I don't see it happening. Seeing Riverdale, MBA, BA, CBHS, Germantown, McCallie, BGA, etc. all in one class would make the playoffs incredible.

Not to mention the fact that with powerhouse matchups between these teams all year long, the gate money received would far surpass the smaller crowds currently attending the games. Instead of having only 5,000 fans show up for the 5A state title game (which happened in 2003, even though it was played in Riverdale's hometown), MTSU's stadium would be overflowing with fans...heck, they might even have to move it to Vandy again. When BA and Riverdale met in the 1995 5A State Championship (BA won, 27-16), 28,500 fans showed up at Vanderbilt Stadium. A year later, after the split, the 5A title game only drew 8,000 fans (even though Riverdale was playing in that game, too). Take a look at what could one day be the State Quarterfinals if the classifications were consolidated to some degree:

 

Dobyns Bennett vs. Maryville

 

Lincoln County vs. Riverdale

 

Brentwood Academy vs. Hillsboro

 

Montgomery Bell Academy vs. Germantown

 

 

Are anybody else's mouths watering???

[Guest cneagles]

So BA and MBA will stop giving scholarships right?? Hey I got an idea Make all schools non-scholarship and non-aide giving then there would be no split. That sounds fair right. You all keep talking about the elite schools. What about the smaller schools that the 3 system would kill. Oh I know we could just have 4-8 teams in each class and all of the other schools can just drop football all together. Why bother these great powers such as BA, MBA, Riverdale, BGA with the less important Collinwoods or Cloudlands. Come on guys 3 classes only helps the private and big schools. You all keep preaching on what we are teaching our kids. "Little Engine that Could" and "Hoosiers" According to your philosophy of 3 classes we are teaching our kids to say to heck with the little guy (schools). How about just having each County have one football team and then the privates. That would give us approximately 115 football teams in the state. But could you imagine Williamson County versus a Rutherford County. Or a Blount County versus Knox County. Talking about some high powered teams. I am sure MBA supporters wouldn't have a problem playing the best athletes from Rutherford or Williamson Counties. We would have to use Neyland Stadium to host that championship. Would be the best football Neyland Stadium has seen since the 98 season.

Edited May 19, 2004 by cneagles

[cbg]

cneagles,

 

The TSSAA accepted the financial aid giving schools on the basis that they could contintue giving the financial aid. They later changed the rules in the middle of the game. Schools like MBA became a member of the TSSAA when the association was formed.

[Bighurt]

cneagles,

 

The TSSAA accepted the financial aid giving schools on the basis that they could contintue giving the financial aid. They later changed the rules in the middle of the game. Schools like MBA became a member of the TSSAA when the association was formed.

Good point.

[WesVLT]

So BA and MBA will stop giving scholarships right?? Hey I got an idea Make all schools non-scholarship and non-aide giving then there would be no split. That sounds fair right. You all keep talking about the elite schools. What about the smaller schools that the 3 system would kill. Oh I know we could just have 4-8 teams in each class and all of the other schools can just drop football all together. Why bother these great powers such as BA, MBA, Riverdale, BGA with the less important Collinwoods or Cloudlands. Come on guys 3 classes only helps the private and big schools. You all keep preaching on what we are teaching our kids. "Little Engine that Could" and "Hoosiers" According to your philosophy of 3 classes we are teaching our kids to say to heck with the little guy (schools). How about just having each County have one football team and then the privates. That would give us approximately 115 football teams in the state. But could you imagine Williamson County versus a Rutherford County. Or a Blount County versus Knox County. Talking about some high powered teams. I am sure MBA supporters wouldn't have a problem playing the best athletes from Rutherford or Williamson Counties. We would have to use Neyland Stadium to host that championship. Would be the best football Neyland Stadium has seen since the 98 season.

First, please become acquainted with the facts. DII schools do not give scholarships. They give financial aid to a small handful of students, even fewer of whom are athletes. Furthermore, the financial aid distribution is determined by an independent agency in Princeton, New Jersey, not by the school itself.

 

Second, please remember that we're talking about a THREE-classification system. The "little guys" -- the Cloudlands and Collinwoods of the world to whom you refer -- would not be displaced or disadvantaged as long as former DII privates would be forced to play at the highest classification, which they would probably do of their own accord anyway. If a division had Brentwood Academy competing against Forrest, it would obviously be extremely unfair; but it wouldn't create that matchup, because BA would play 3A and Forrest 1A. Forrest might be in the same division as Fairview or Lewis County, but no one much bigger or better than that. In addition, current multiplier rules could remain in effect, forcing the current D1 privates to at least play 2A ball, if not 3A.

 

If you want, I'll create a similar State Quarterfinal scenario for 1A and 2A:

 

1A

Cloudland vs. Alcoa

 

Tyner vs. Collinwood

 

Milan vs. Huntingdon

 

Mitchell vs. Lewis County

 

 

2A

Austin-East vs. Fulton

 

DCA vs. Boyd Buchanan

 

David Lipscomb vs. Goodpasture

 

Covington vs. Ridgeway

 

 

Some matchups I'd pay a lot to see.

[Guest cneagles]

Wesvols that is the reason I said non-scholarship and non-AIDE When they accepted the schools TO ME is irrelevant. Maybe they did not see the advantage those schools were getting. What about allowing all schools to give aide. Why are you so apposed to doing away with not giving scholarships or aide? Is cause those schools can't compete without it? It creates an unfair advantage. I kind of liked the whole county having a football team. 95 counties in the state which would create 95 teams. Could still play JV as well.

[lazarus]

"Why are you so apposed to doing away with not giving scholarships or aide? Is cause those schools can't compete without it?"

 

hope wes dont mind me answering.

the aid serves a lot of purposes besides athletics. these schools primary mission is education, and they would like to be able to enroll deserving students, even when their financial situation may not permit the student to get in any other way. my experience with this is that the aid comes from a fund (the endowment?) contributed primarily by alumni of the school, for the purpose of helping others obtain an education at their school. the aid is a good thing.

now, are there schools who also play it to benefit athletics? surely. and there is a certain natural overlap anyway. being a good athlete as well as a good scholar is considered laudable everywhere i have ever been. those students are prize students, and the best schools ardently desire the best students. so the aid (in many cases) does benefit the school's athletic programs. but to do away with it would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

and another word of defense for the d-2's. most are there because they would not sell out their aid students by not permitting them to play sports. there are plenty of other ways to stack a team, if that were their only goal. besides, if you look, d-2 includes many schools who are not athletic powers.

[TDJ85]

cneagles

 

Just out of curiosity. How many financial aid students do you think a BA or MBA has playing football?

[Guest cneagles]

I honestly do not know. If they have just one then I see it as unfair unless you give that same privilege to every school. He said the contributions were mainly from alumni well in the NCAA that would be a violation to donate money that is used for athletics. Why is the TSSAA any different. Listen BA MBA, BGA all those schools a great academic schools. But as far as athletics goes giving aide is simply not fair. Look at Brentwood High probably the best academic high school in the state if you go by scores (gateway, sat, act) why shouldn't they be allowed to give aide and pick and choose who goes there.

[WesVLT]

I honestly do not know.  If they have just one then I see it as unfair unless you give that same privilege to every school.  He said the contributions were mainly from alumni well in the NCAA that would be a violation to donate money that is used for athletics.  Why is the TSSAA any different.  Listen BA MBA, BGA all those schools a great academic schools.  But as far as athletics goes giving aide is simply not fair.  Look at Brentwood High probably the best academic high school in the state if you go by scores (gateway, sat, act) why shouldn't they be allowed to give aide and pick and choose who goes there.

Lazarus, good answer. I can't think of anything to add...you covered it better than I could have. As you said, while financial aid distribution occasionally benefits athletics, it only does so after having also contributed to other areas of the school, such as academics, extracurriculars, or spiritual life. Since it is highly personal, it is never discussed in the hallways, and is really not at all pervasive into the everyday life of the school. Still, many public schools see it as an advantage for private schools, and I suppose I can understand why they might think so. However, as a recent private school graduate (2003), I can tell you that if it is an advantage at all, the advantage is minimal.

 

cneagles, I'm afraid you're not remembering why private schools were created in the first place. They came about because there was a desire to create institutions of learning that could enact their own policies independent of some government mandates. Some people wanted a Christian environment in the classroom, which could only be found in a private school. Some wanted higher standards than public schools were offering. Some wanted a smaller environment. Needless to say, there is a myriad of reasons why independent schools exist, but one theme remains: they are independent. Therefore, they have the right to offer financial aid, as long as it is applied fairly and according to basic standards (see my previous post regarding how its distribution is determined). No one, not even the TSSAA, can force private schools to do away with aid because they are, as I've said, independent.

 

You ask me why I'm opposed to doing away with financial aid, and my answer falls along the same lines I've already presented. A school can choose whether or not to offer financial aid, and the decision is up to that school and that school alone. The TSSAA can't force the issue. Heck, it would even be unconstitutional for President Bush to request legislature to ban financial aid. But not only would it violate the autonomy of private schools, it would also decrease their quality. I'm sure there are some fine students at BA, MBA, McCallie, Webb, Baylor, etc., who aren't paying 100% of tuition because, quite simply, their families can't afford it. Ending financial aid robs the student of the education he or she wants, and it robs the school of a student.

 

So now I ask you a question: Is it right to deny a private school education to an intelligent student just because he can't afford to shell out $10,000 per year?

 

Please don't get me wrong. There is a myriad of excellent public schools in the state of Tennessee, including the one you mentioned, Brentwood High. This discussion is not about the legitimacy of public schools as a means of education. This IS about freedom of choice regarding education -- both the choice of the student to attend a private school if he or she desires, and of the school to accept that student. Doing away with financial aid violates the freedom of choice of both parties. Meanwhile, if a school chooses to abolish its financial aid program, it is well within its bounds to do so, but is consciously sacrificing some quality students in the process.

 

Meanwhile, you ask why public schools can't be allowed to give financial aid, and I halfway hope you're being facetious. Public schools don't cost any money...how could they give aid??? As far as picking and choosing who goes there...doing so would blatantly violate the basic purpose of public education -- to offer free schooling to everyone. As long as a student lives in Brentwood High's zone, BHS can't deny them admission. Duh.

Edited May 20, 2004 by WesVols