HAVE OFFICIALS RUINED H.S BASKETBALL

[tamirrt]

I've been to several games this year and was of the opinion that the refs made a big impact on the outcome of the game, but I attended a game Tuesday nite that has changed my thoughts about how and why refs do what they do....

 

 

1. Refs have to love what they do or are EXTEMELY desperate for a low-paying, low-rewards kind of job....there is not enough money in the state of TN to entice me to be a HS ref.

 

2. What ever happened to sportsmanship??....we have heard all about little league baseball, football, and soccer's crackdown on parents who act like as#es in front of their children....well I think its time someone cracked-down on some of these HS parents.....I was astounded and absolutely embarrassed by some of things said and done by these normally mild mannered respectable people. By the way, these are the same hypocrits leading prayer on Sunday....and that leads into>>

 

3. These same church goers have obviously taught their children these christian phrases such as "You suk....your whole family suks!"...."Don't go out in the parking lot alone ref....we'd hate for something to happen to you" and these were just some of the things shouted when the ref made a good legitimate call....the sad things is that these are kids who don't have enough initiative to get out there and bust their hump on the court, they prefer to stay in the stands and "support" their team with their smart mouths....it only got worse from there...

 

4. As the game went on and these same smart alecks absolutely heckled the refs the legitimate calls soon became absolutely horrible calls that a blind man wouldn't have made....I was even tempted to jump up and scream a few things at the refs myself....but I got to thinking that if these hecklers were making me mad and what they were saying wasn't even directed at me then how must the refs feel...as much as I would like to say that I wouldn't have let what was being said affect my calls...we are only human and I'm not made of stern enough stuff to let threats to my well being and to that of my family go in one ear and out the other....and oh yes did I mention that these hecklers were my neighbors, co-workers and fellow church-goers...? You would think I was complaining about an opposing teams fans but nope to my utter embarrassment I am talking about our home crowd.

 

 

So what are the answers???....I don't know....but I do know that even if there are some truly rotten refs out there, there are some even worse fans.

[DekeRivers]

They are always hiring! Its a great job if you like working in a athletic setting. You'll have the best seats in the house.. NO EXPERIENCE necessary, all you need to excell is patience, wisdom, and some knowledge of the basketball rule book. You'll need skin as thick as John Rockers skull, 20-20 vision in each eye including the one in the back of your head. You'll be expected to be perfect the first day and improve. You can attend clinics, practices and work live scrimmages, then cut your teeth on freshman and JV games, while working your way up to the varsity level. You will encounter fans in the bleachers, coaches on the bench, and players on the court that know more, see better, and aren't the least bit shy about saying so. Referees don;t get a lot of high fives, and don;t wait around after the game for attaboys. A great day at the ballgame is when nobody notices you hurrying to your car in the parking lot. True refs are the ones who chooses to officiate in the first place. They are self confident, mentally tough, fair and unafraid of the criticism that is inevitable. Refs accept criticism as a part of the game. Mistakes stay with you longer than making a great block-charge call. Business is Business but their is a heart in there somewhere. Just trying to do a good job, a great job, and when you don't who suffers? The Kids do ! and were all in it for the kids, Right!

Edited January 10, 2005 by DekeRivers

[BlMed]

I've been to several games this year and was of the opinion that the refs made a big impact on the outcome of the game, but I attended a game Tuesday nite that has changed my thoughts about how and why refs do what they do....

1.  Refs have to love what they do or are EXTEMELY desperate for a low-paying, low-rewards kind of job....there is not enough money in the state of TN to entice me to be a HS ref.

 

2.  What ever happened to sportsmanship??....we have heard all about little league baseball, football, and soccer's crackdown on parents who act like as#es in front of their children....well I think its time someone cracked-down on some of these HS parents.....I was astounded and absolutely embarrassed by some of things said and done by these normally mild mannered respectable people. By the way, these are the same hypocrits leading prayer on Sunday....and that leads into>>

 

3.  These same church goers have obviously taught their children these christian phrases such as "You suk....your whole family suks!"...."Don't go out in the parking lot alone ref....we'd hate for something to happen to you" and these were just some of the things shouted when the ref made a good legitimate call....the sad things is that these are kids who don't have enough initiative to get out there and bust their hump on the court, they prefer to stay in the stands and "support" their team with their smart mouths....it only got worse from there...

 

4.  As the game went on and these same smart alecks absolutely heckled the refs the legitimate calls soon became absolutely horrible calls that a blind man wouldn't have made....I was even tempted to jump up and scream a few things at the refs myself....but I got to thinking that if these hecklers were making me mad and what they were saying wasn't even directed at me then how must the refs feel...as much as I would like to say that I wouldn't have let what was being said affect my calls...we are only human and I'm not made of stern enough stuff to let threats to my well being and to that of my family go in one ear and out the other....and oh yes did I mention that these hecklers were my neighbors, co-workers and fellow church-goers...? You would think I was complaining about an opposing teams fans but nope to my utter embarrassment I am talking about our home crowd.

So what are the answers???....I don't know....but I do know that even if there are some truly rotten refs out there, there are some even worse fans.

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The answer is not found in blaming the problem on the parents, coaches and players. That is a smokescreen technique used by many wise "politicians". Let's address the real problem , which we all know exists.....ref's who determine the outcome of games by their calls. Once they become accountable, the problem should be fixed. Seems like they and their supporters don't want them to be accountable. I am sure you have heard of that word in your "church"....ACCOUNTABILITY....it means everyone answers to someone! And when they don't ....well that's when they think they are "god" and have a right to control games etc.

[tamirrt]

The answer is not found in  blaming the problem  on the parents, coaches and players. That is a smokescreen technique used by many wise "politicians". Let's address the real problem , which we all know exists.....ref's who determine the outcome of games by their calls. Once they become accountable, the problem should be fixed. Seems like they and  their supporters don't want them to be accountable. I am sure you have heard of that word in your "church"....ACCOUNTABILITY....it means everyone answers to someone! And when they don't ....well that's when they think they are "god" and have a right to control games etc.

825513560[/snapback]

So what about the accountability of the parents and the fans?????....I guess only the refs are accountable for their actions....is that what you're saying??? Wow if that's true I wanna go live in your idealic world.... I'll be the first to say that there are definitely some completely horrible refs out there...and yes we were winning our game and then the bad calls probably did decide the outcome for us....a loss. But there is a bigger problem than just the refs...these fans were heckling the refs on LEGITIMATE calls....I wish we could all blame our inadequacies on the refs....but that answer is too easy. Do we need better refs??....without a doubt that answer is a resounding yes. But do we need to look at the bigger picture of why there are fewer and fewer good quality refs available???....therein lies the answer.

[Chrome]

$130 a night? Where? For $65, my buddy gets to leave at 4:30, drive an hour, watch a little of a JV game & try to help younger officials learn, then get dressed, work a couple of games. Most nights he's dressed & out of the gym by 10P & on his way home to wife & kids already in bed.

 

Why in the world is everyone always looking to find something wrong with the game? Rick Barry commented this weekend that NBA players have lost sight of the fact they are playing a game for a living. I'm afraid a lot of people following high school athletics have followed the same path. I'm sure some officials fall in this category as well. In the world of officiating, it is a long road to the top, & high school officials are not very far up that ladder.

 

The angry, upset, & misguided will always be louder than all other voices.

[bigwes68]

For the last time --

 

The TSSAA takes what they can get. And the pay in Tennessee is a lot better than in other states, too. Not that many people are getting into officiating because they don't want to put up with people like those of you that are constantly complaining about terrible officiating. How many of you have ever tried it? It's not easy, folks! Basketball is, by far, the most difficult sport to officiate. The rules are the most complicated of any sport the TSSAA offers, it is a faster-paced game, and the fans are right on top of the court. If I were a basketball official, I would feel very unsafe walking into certain gyms.

 

Now tell me, honestly, have you ever seen any official at any basketball game at any level that did not miss a call? That didn't miss 10 calls? Of course not. High school officials miss them, SEC officials miss them, NBA officials miss them (but their rules are so screwed up, I don't know who could call those games). Basketball is a very difficult sport to call.

 

So it's not high school officials that have ruined the game. It's kids idolizing these thugs they call pro basketball players, trying to emulate them instead of focusing on the fundamentals of basketball. It's parents that go to games for the sole purpose of yelling at officials. It's coaches that care so much about winning that they forget to teach kids the fundamentals of the game, they do nothing but yell, and kids don't want to play basketball anymore.

 

THAT'S what has ruined basketball. Not officials.

Edited January 11, 2005 by bigwes68

[ksgovols]

I am curious ksbovols, why were you away for 20 years and then came back?

What are you now in relationship to the game? Are you a ref?

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I followed my high school teams through my college days and didn't attend the local high school games where I settled until I knew some of the players that I coached in Little League.

 

I'm a volunteer umpire for the local Little League (no compensation). I've called in 4 state tournaments. Hey, we're always looking for folks to umpire! Our UIC got his Little League World Series assignment this past summer. To get one, you have to go through an evaluation process at a regional tournament and have several state tournaments under your belt. He took his vacation time to go to Georgia for the Southern Region 13-14 tournament and LL paid his room and board only. He and I do it for the love of the game as I imagine most do.

 

Officials are not getting rich calling high school games. They often have to leave their 'real' job early and pay their own expenses while they're on the road. Three references are required from a high school coach, administrator or officials supervisor. There are tests and evaluations. Some officials are better than others, just like the players, coaches and fans. When they blow a call, they know it before the fans do. They play it over in their head when they go to bed that night. They aren't perfect. I think a coach can request to not have a certain official at his game if there are personality conflicts.

[BlMed]

So what about the accountability of the parents and the fans?????....I guess only the refs are accountable for their actions....is that what you're saying??? Wow if that's true I wanna go live in your idealic world.... I'll be the first to say that there are definitely some completely horrible refs out there...and yes we were winning our game and then the bad calls probably did decide the outcome for us....a loss.  But there is a bigger problem than just the refs...these fans were heckling the refs on LEGITIMATE calls....I wish we could all blame our inadequacies on the refs....but that answer is too easy.  Do we need better refs??....without a doubt that answer is a resounding yes.  But do we need to look at the bigger picture of why there are fewer and fewer good quality refs available???....therein lies the answer.

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Hey I throw in the towel. I think we should keep the same staus quo ,corrupt system of referees ,not being accountable to anyone.

 

Let the ref's continue to be the only unaccountable people in High School basketball. Not sure they could handle the public scrutiny anyway.

 

Let the refs continue to "control games" by their lop sided calls. It may be the only time in their life "they are in control of anything". Let's puff them up some more.

 

How foolish to think High School basketball was for the kids. I now realize it is for the vicarious pleasure of a few over the hill guys , who probably never did/could play basketball. Let's give them our full homage and "bow" when they make their frequent bad calls.

[RimRecker]

For the last time --

 

The TSSAA takes what they can get.  And the pay in Tennessee is a lot better than in other states, too.  Not that many people are getting into officiating because they don't want to put up with people like those of you that are constantly complaining about terrible officiating.  How many of you have ever tried it?  It's not easy, folks!  Basketball is, by far, the most difficult sport to officiate.  The rules are the most complicated of any sport the TSSAA offers, it is a faster-paced game, and the fans are right on top of the court.  If I were a basketball official, I would feel very unsafe walking into certain gyms. 

 

Now tell me, honestly, have you ever seen any official at any basketball game at any level that did not miss a call?  That didn't miss 10 calls?  Of course not.  High school officials miss them, SEC officials miss them, NBA officials miss them (but their rules are so screwed up, I don't know who could call those games).  Basketball is a very difficult sport to call. 

 

So it's not high school officials that have ruined the game.  It's kids idolizing these thugs they call pro basketball players, trying to emulate them instead of focusing on the fundamentals of basketball.  It's parents that go to games for the sole purpose of yelling at officials.  It's coaches that care so much about winning that they forget to teach kids the fundamentals of the game, they do nothing but yell, and kids don't want to play basketball anymore.

 

THAT'S what has ruined basketball.  Not officials.

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WELL YOU CERTAINALLY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL THESES KIDS THUGS. YOU HAVE YOUR FACT ALL MESSED UP. OFFICIALS WILL WHAT THEY THINK THEY SEE OR WHAT THEY DON'T SEE. . IF YOU THINK THAT PRO BALL IS THE REASON OFFICIALS CALL WHAT THEY DO , (GET A LIFE) A KIDS AND1 MOVE IS NOT THE REASON SOME OFFICIAL ARE BAD. THEY GET COUGHT UP IN THE MOMENT JUST LIKE FANS, PLAYERS ,AND PARENTS DO. PARENTS PAYING ADMISSION TO RIDE THE REFS, WHAT A JOKE.. THERE THEIR TO SUPORT THERE KIDS AND SCHOOL, AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXSPRESS EMOTIONS IN A PROPER WAY. THEY PAY THERE ADMISSION TO SEE A GOOD GAME, WHEATHER YOU WIN OR LOOSE, JUST A GOOD GAME PERIOD. SO YOUR THUG THEROY IS PITIFUL.!!!!!!!!!

[ksgovols]

Let the ref's continue to be the only unaccountable people in High School basketball. Not sure they could handle the public scrutiny anyway.

 

Let the refs continue to "control games" by their lop sided calls. It may be the only time in their life "they are in control of anything". Let's puff them up some more.

 

How foolish to think High School basketball was for the kids. I now realize it is for the vicarious pleasure of a few over the hill guys , who probably never did/could play basketball. Let's give them our full homage and "bow" when they make their frequent bad calls.

825514441[/snapback]

 

How are they not accountable. If the ref is doing what you say, I think your coach could have him recused from calling your school's games. Most of your post seems to be well thought out, but I have to tell ya it smells like sour grapes.

 

If you're 18, don't have a felony and can find 3 high school principals or coaches to vouch for you, you too may be eligible to become a TSSAA official. Call now! Availability is limited!

[1Fan]

Sorry ksgovols, bigwes68, Chrome, tamirrt, and DekeRivers you are all obviously too openminded to post on this thread. Some people are too prejudiced to even allow anyone with an opposing view to express an opinion without being attacked and using rational arguments is apparently not allowed. I find that it odd however that anytime someone makes an impartial remark, they are "accused" of being a ref. Does anyone else see a contradiction here?

[CoachT]

Ifan,

I couldn't agree more, We are not allowed to make a rational argument and if they can't back thier argument up they start hurling insults at you. It is almost like being back in highschool or gradeschool on here sometimes.( example--Muffin)  I wish Coach T would ban these people when they start making personal insults toward people for expressing thier point of view.

825515325[/snapback]

Is this the same guy who said "Muffin you are so stupid" and "Hey muffin you don't know me so don't pretend to you little brat. I think its past your bedtime."

 

We all get a little emotional at times but, for the most part, the mature ones will make sensible arguments regardless of the insensibility surrounding them.