qualify for region?

[tlove13]

could someone please give me some info on qualifying times and distances for the region track meet. I didn't have much luck looking on tssaa website. Does it change year to year? I would appreciate any info from you guys.

[coachlj65]

there are no qualifying times or distances for region. when entering, your coach will submit your best performance then all heats / flights are seeded from everyone entered. if you are referring to sectionals, then the top 2 in each event advances on to the state meet. but then again, some regions may have a qualifying standard to cut down on entries but that would be by regional coaches decision, not tssaa mandated.

Edited April 10, 2005 by coachlj65

[tlove13]

there are no qualifying times or distances for region. when entering, your coach will submit your best performance then all heats / flights are seeded from everyone entered. if you are referring to sectionals, then the top 2 in each event advances on to the state meet. but then again, some regions may have a qualifying standard to cut down on entries but that would be by regional coaches decision, not tssaa mandated.

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so, if a coach thinks that his athlete can compete regionally, then he can enter that athlete? Do some coaches enter athletes that have no business being there?

[coachlj65]

so, if a coach thinks that his athlete can compete regionally, then he can enter that athlete? Do some coaches enter athletes that have no business being there?

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yes they do which i understand. they may have athletes that are not competitive at that level, but if they have been out all year, practiced hard, etc... then give them one more chance to try and better their own performance. most coaches will allow everyone on the team to atleast compete in 1 or 2 events, even if only a few are capable of advancing.

[kenwoodrun]

Maybe Bearden or somebody from East TN can step in here and explain how one of the east TN sectionals (1AAA?) have qualifying marks. I am a fan of this idea...and although I sympathize with the coach that wants to get the hard working kid "one more chance", I despise the massive heat sizes we have in 3AAA and 2 days of sectional qualifying for Friday night. Two days of nonsense to get to a Friday night final, when we could do it ALL a lot faster with some standards. The point of sectionals is to advance your best 2 to state...that's the bottom line. So to answer your question tlove, at least in the Nashville section, yes...there are coaches who enter guys that run a 5:45 mile into the mile just to take up space and trip the 4:35 kid who belongs in the final regardless.

[coachlj65]

Maybe Bearden or somebody from East TN can step in here and explain how one of the east TN sectionals (1AAA?) have qualifying marks. I am a fan of this idea...and although I sympathize with the coach that wants to get the hard working kid "one more chance", I despise the massive heat sizes we have in 3AAA and 2 days of sectional qualifying for Friday night. Two days of nonsense to get to a Friday night final, when we could do it ALL a lot faster with some standards. The point of sectionals is to advance your best 2 to state...that's the bottom line. So to answer your question tlove, at least in the Nashville section, yes...there are coaches who enter guys that run a 5:45 mile into the mile just to take up space and trip the 4:35 kid who belongs in the final regardless.

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you're right kenwood, it does create a mess for the better runners to deal with and draws the meet out incredibly long. that's why I am a huge fan of the way section 2 AAA (southern middle and chattanooga area) does it. the week before sectionals, the chat area runs a region meet as does southern mid. each qualifies the top 4 to sections. thus on an 8 lane track, sections are one race, no heats and top 2 advance. it also allows the kids an extra meet in which to earn awards and sort of plays as qualifying heats and cuts down on travel.

[BHSfootball]

Maybe Bearden or somebody from East TN can step in here and explain how one of the east TN sectionals (1AAA?) have qualifying marks. I am a fan of this idea...and although I sympathize with the coach that wants to get the hard working kid "one more chance", I despise the massive heat sizes we have in 3AAA and 2 days of sectional qualifying for Friday night. Two days of nonsense to get to a Friday night final, when we could do it ALL a lot faster with some standards. The point of sectionals is to advance your best 2 to state...that's the bottom line. So to answer your question tlove, at least in the Nashville section, yes...there are coaches who enter guys that run a 5:45 mile into the mile just to take up space and trip the 4:35 kid who belongs in the final regardless.

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To be honest, we still get some athletes who obviously don't have the ability to compete with the better guys there, but I understand why a coach would enter these guys. Basically, our meet is one day all day. There are no prelims if I remember correctly. Coaches enter marks and we are seeded accordingly. Most marks are legit, but its obvious many aren't, espcially when the majority of ahtletes in an event are entered at EXACTLY the minimum mark. Our regional system relies more on honest athletes and coaches and most adhere to this, but it usually doesn't slow our meet down if they don't. Most kids find out real fast that they don't belong there if they don't.

[kenwoodrun]

Most marks are legit, but its obvious many aren't, espcially when the majority of ahtletes in an event are entered at EXACTLY the minimum mark.  Our regional system relies more on honest athletes and coaches and most adhere to this, but it usually doesn't slow our meet down if they don't.  Most kids find out real fast that they don't belong there if they don't.

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Ha, that is a great telltale sign when you host a meet w/ cutoffs. We had like 27 girls that all jumped exactly 14' 0" on the dot. I found that to be....miraculous.

I wish we had a big computerized database of all the major meets in the state...after a meet was over, the meet director submitted their marks into the database. When regional came around, if your name wasn't on that list above the cutoff mark, you don't get in to your sectional in that event, period. No "14' 0" out of 27 girls. If you jumped it, prove it. If not, don't say you did. And the burden of proof is not on the meet director to have to verify all that mess. I better stop now while I'm ahead or I'll get back on my tirade about the "Great 8" farce last year.

I have a dream...that one day coaches won't be able to fabricate seed times for championship meets or major invitationals. I have a dream.

[Slipstream1]

Here is how the “qualifying standards” for the sectional meet work in 1-AAA.

 

Originally when the current alignment was set up for 4 regionals (now called sectionals) the coaches in 1-AAA realized that with around 35 teams in our area we would have a meet of massive size and decided to modify how athletes “qualified” for the sectional. A look at past results was made and a set of standards was established. I don’t remember what the original criteria was but I think it was something like the average of the 8th place mark from the previous 3 years. We also created small “district-type” meets of 5-6 schools that fed the sectional. After 3-4 years we eliminated the “district” meet and went straight with standards. It has worked well and most coaches follow the standards when entering their athletes. Now, if a coach wanted to enter a full team in the meet they could and we can’t stop them but that really has never been a problem. Sometimes, coaches will enter a kid in the meet that has worked hard and is very close to the standard but just missed and that also has never been a problem. A couple of times we started getting some bigger numbers in an event due to the “close” entries but we just lowered the standard next year and eliminated that.

 

From time to time we get some bogus marks turned in (something kenwood referred to) that can have a major effect on seeding. However, since more and more of our meets are having results posted on the internet and having FAT times it has become harder to fake a time. For example one team a couple of years ago turned in 2 runners in the 100 at 10.5 and 10.6. Now I had done the FAT timing of a couple of meets they were in and their times were more like 11.6 and 11.9, so I questioned where their marks were set at. They indicated a meet in Kentucky which I was able to track down and confirm that their marks at that meet were close to the times that I had gotten for them. I then informed the coach that his runners were going to be seeded at the best time that I could document. Both the coach and the AD were furious but ended up admitting that the times were ran in a home dual meet. I suspect that the 10.5 and 10.6 were 100 yard not meter times. The two runners ended up running right at their proper seed marks in the sectional. It is just something we have to watch unless we can come up with a database that tracks all the major meets.

 

We run no prelims with everything being sections vs times with fast and slow sections. Most events will only be 2 sections and only on rare occasions have we ran 3 sections in a race. Our sectional meet has never been anything but a one day meet. Another key to controlling the length of the meet is track size. An 8 or 9 lane track will do wonders compared to a six lane one.

 

A few years back Section 1 – A/AA was having 2 day monster meets and they finally went to standards and it worked well for them also. However they have now had a change in their format that created regionals feeding a sectional which I have reservations about.

 

I hope I did not confuse you but tried to give a little background on how standards have worked for us in 1-AAA.

 

Now, if we could just get standards into the state meet……

[coachlj65]

if we didn't use the sub-sectional meet to qualify for sections, i would definitely want to use qualifying marks. it would be nice if the tssaa did that for state like they do in swimming and like i beleive they do in KY. that way if you have a strong section in several events, you wouldn't be limited to just 2. i noticed some sections had 3rd place finishers last spring that were still a top 5 time in the state.

[p9morbid]

I like the idea of qualifying times because when I was in high school a slow guy from one of the schools was running in lane 1 during the mile and got lapped by like 5 guys. he didn't move out of the way, and one of the fastest guys stepped on the infield a few times trying to dodge him (he got DQed). The sectional/regional and state meet should be for very competitive kids ONLY -- slow people do not belong in a big race. That being said, it IS high school...so as long as someone is reasonably fast I think they should be able to participate. For instance, if someone runs a 4.50 mile or something...they should get to be IN the race, even though they probably have no chance of winning.

 

Also, for some events I believe a fast time should be rewarded with a chance to run at the state meet. For example, if the 3rd place finisher is faster than someone from another region they should somehow be incorporated into the state meet. I am a big believer in THE fastest people racing at the state meet.

Edited April 12, 2005 by p9morbid

[terolico]

I would have to agree. At the state meet lots of times you have to wonder how did this kid qualify to get here, knowing that somewhere else in the state another kid is sitting at home who could have done better. The state meet needs to be a true sate championship with the best kids competing in every event. Most likely the same person would still win the meet but others would be given a chance at placing at the "STATE" meet.