The Official St. Louis vs. Atlanta Thread

[Gerry Bertier]

All I know is when was the last time a team from the NL Central won a world series? Well the answer is 1990 with the team being the Cinncinati Reds (and back then they were in the NL East). So in the last 15 years the current NL central has been represented twice in the World Series. Man that is a tough division to play in. Now on the other hand NL East teams have appeared in the World Series 9 times since 1991 (every team but the Nationals have made a trip) and they have won it 3 times. So I would say the Braves have played in the tougher division since 1990, put up better numbers and the NL East is showing once again it is the best division in the NL with all the teams being in playoff contention in mid-August. I think that proved my point of the NL East being superior to the NL Central and the Braves run of 13 straight division titles even more impressive. Don't come with the 1 world series win excuse anymore cause I bet any manager, GM, or owner in the leauge (excluding Steinbrenner and Torre) would love to have the success the Braves have had.

[Solomon]

All I know is when was the last time a team from the NL Central won a world series? Well the answer is 1990 with the team being the Cinncinati Reds (and back then they were in the NL East).

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Actually they were in the NL West until the 3 division format began.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL_1990.shtml

[jusdontno]

All I know is when was the last time a team from the NL Central won a world series? Well the answer is 1990 with the team being the Cinncinati Reds (and back then they were in the NL East). So in the last 15 years the current NL central has been represented twice in the World Series. Man that is a tough division to play in. Now on the other hand NL East teams have appeared in the World Series 9 times since 1991 (every team but the Nationals have made a trip) and they have won it 3 times. So I would say the Braves have played in the tougher division since 1990, put up better numbers and the NL East is showing once again it is the best division in the NL with all the teams being in playoff contention in mid-August. I think that proved my point of the NL East being superior to the NL Central and the Braves run of 13 straight division titles even more impressive. Don't come with the 1 world series win excuse anymore cause I bet any manager, GM, or owner in the leauge (excluding Steinbrenner and Torre) would love to have the success the Braves have had.

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I ain't coming with you with nothing but facts. And I could care less about how tough the Central Division or the Eastern Division. Winning a division title means you beat our 4 other teams, good, yes, successful, yes, but does make you close to the best (there are 30 teams) And it is ironic you bring up all the teams in the Braves own division they "dominate" that have went further than the playoffs than the Braves.

 

Never said the Braves were not successful the last 15 years. I would say 10-15 teams including the Cardinals have benn successful over the last 15 years.

It's just all these Barves fans proclaiming the Braves the Best based on division titles and 1 WS title is funny.

 

Probably the reason the Braves fans make such a big deal out of divsion titles is there is only 1 WS title. And don't you think after the 86,000 straight division titles, a division title means nothing to the Braves if they don't at least go and preferrably win the WS? It's like finishing in the top 10 in football--It's great the first few times you do it, but once you have done it a few times you need to win the NC to be truly among the elite.

 

The Braves are one of the top 10 teams in baseball. The Cardinals are one of the top 10 teams in baseball. Both are behind the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, Angels and other successful teams who have been recent champions.

 

The Cardinals won more games than anyone in baseball last year, and trail only the WS for best record this year despite all their injuries. Do I think this makes them the best? No, they need to win the WS, and then I can talk of a successful team and argue about them being the best. Same with the Braves. Win it all this year and you can come back with a legitimate argument. The Cardinals and Braves are basically pretty comparable right now. History goes to the Cardinals, but not enough history recently.

 

In the end all Braves fans can argue is division championships. Being better than 4 other teams. And as it turns out, the rest of their division has more WS titles than they do and just about as many WS appearances.

[gotmilk?]

I ain't coming with you with nothing but facts.  And I could care less about how tough the Central Division or the Eastern Division.  Winning a division title means you beat our 4 other teams, good, yes, successful, yes, but does make you close to the best (there are 30 teams)  And it is ironic you bring up all the teams in the Braves own division they "dominate" that have went further than the playoffs than the Braves. 

 

Never said the Braves were not successful the last 15 years.  I would say 10-15 teams including the Cardinals have benn successful over the last 15 years.

It's just all these Barves fans proclaiming the Braves the Best based on division titles and 1 WS title is funny.

 

Probably the reason the Braves fans make such a big deal out of divsion titles is there is only 1 WS title.  And don't you think after the 86,000 straight division titles, a division title means nothing to the Braves if they don't at least go and preferrably win the WS?  It's like finishing in the top 10 in football--It's great the first few times you do it, but once you have done it a few times you need to win the NC to be truly among the elite.

 

The Braves are one of the top 10 teams in baseball.  The Cardinals are one of the top 10 teams in baseball.  Both are behind the Yankees, Red Sox, Marlins, Angels and other successful teams who have been recent champions.

 

The Cardinals won more games than anyone in baseball last year, and trail only the WS for best record this year despite all their injuries.  Do I think this makes them the best?  No, they need to win the WS, and then I can talk of a successful team and argue about them being the best.  Same with the Braves.  Win it all this year and you can come back with a legitimate argument.  The Cardinals and Braves are basically pretty comparable right now.  History goes to the Cardinals, but not enough history recently.

 

In the end all Braves fans can argue is division championships.  Being better than 4 other teams.  And as it turns out, the rest of their division has more WS titles than they do and just about as many WS appearances.

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Are you saying that the Red Sox and Angels have been more successful than the Braves over the last 15 years?

[jusdontno]

Are you saying that the Red Sox and Angels have been more successful than the Braves over the last 15 years?

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No, but yes over the last 5 years-that is what I was more considering as current. 15 years gets more into history IMO.

 

But if I go 15 years, others such as Toronto would move ahead of the Braves. Remember, I never have said the Braves have not had a successful 15 year run, but not the top at any time (Except maybe 95 after WS victory and before Yankees run (Have to research, but Toronto is the only team off the top of my head I would definitely rank ahead of thenat that time of -maybe Minnesota).

 

I repeat, Cardinals and Braves are currently in top 5-8 teams in baseball with a chance to move up the ladder. Historically Cardinals are second only to the Yankees.

 

As a Cardinal fan I can tell you It's been way too long since Cardinals won WS (I feel same way about Braves)

[gotmilk?]

No, but yes over the last 5 years-that is what I was more  considering as current.  15 years gets more into history IMO.

 

 

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Alright if you want to use moving points, yesterday was history, so who was the best yesterday?

[jusdontno]

Alright if you want to use moving points, yesterday was history, so who was the best yesterday?

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Don't really understand the question, but neither played yesterday, since the Cardinals have a better record than Braves this year, I guess statistically the Cardinals. Unless you want to use the theory the Braves won Sunday and the Cardinals lost, so the Braves.

 

But yesterday since neither played (or have played yet today), I guess that makes them currently about even, which is what I have been saying all along.

[Gerry Bertier]

Actually they were in the NL West until the 3 division format began.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL_1990.shtml

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Thanks Solomon, I was not aware of that. But that even more solidfies my point of the NL East being far superior than the NL Central which makes what the Braves have done even more respectable. Any sports historian has to respect what the Braves have been able to do in the age of free agency and big money spending. Go ahead and deny the facts, the Braves have been than the Cardinals in recent history. In the long run, the Cardinals have the edge, I have never denied that.

[jusdontno]

Thanks Solomon, I was not aware of that. But that even more solidfies my point of the NL East being far superior than the NL Central which makes what the Braves have done even more respectable. Any sports historian has to respect what the Braves have been able to do in the age of free agency and big money spending. Go ahead and deny the facts, the Braves have been than the Cardinals in recent history. In the long run, the Cardinals have the edge, I have never denied that.

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Not going to argue which is th strongest division, because I don't really care. I will say the Cardinals have won as many WS as your entire Super Division combined.

 

Atlanta Braves 1 Boston, Milwaukee, Atlanta Braves 3

Marlins 2

Phillies 2

Mets 2

Expos/Nationals 0

 

 

Total Super Eastern Division 9---------Total Cardinals 9

 

And currently The NL Central had 2 teams in playoffs last year (one that beat the Braves) and currently lead the Wild card race this year. In the playoff history since Wild Card, it is probably pretty even between the 3 divisions which had 2 teams in playoffs. And I said I wasn't going to argue, but I still don't care which division is stronger. All I care about is taking the next step to win WS.

 

I am rooting for the Nationals to pull off WC spot, I like old Frank and think it would be great.

 

Without a win this year the Braves will be past 10 year mark without WS win (been 23 for the Cardinals), going to be hard to justify that as anything but history.

And the last WS appearance was in the last century, but there are those 184 division titles. My whole point is if I were a Braves fan, I would not be satisfied with another division win an playoff fizzle. As A Cardinal fan, since they have been a steady playoff team and made WS last year, if they do not win WS, I will not consider another division title a successful year. If I were a National fan, I would be thrilled with a Wild Card and first round loss.

Edited August 17, 2005 by jusdontno

[Opperman]

All I know is when St. Louis wins 13 straight division titles(soon to be 14), then you can rag on the Braves. The Braves bring in a couple big name free agents every now and then, but if you notice they are gone in a couple of years. Braves win through their depth of their minor league system. So go ahead and think your Cardinals are on the same level as the Braves, but they're not. A real baseball fan wouldn't think the Nationals would win the division, cause the Braves have been slow starters lately but always deliver. That is like thinking the Orioles would win the AL East, some things will never happen.

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Get 9 rings, then we'll talk.

[Bledsoebtheboys]

Scott Rolen out for the season with shoulder surgery.........How will this hurt St. Louis run for another World Series appearance????

[Opperman]

Scott Rolen out for the season with shoulder surgery.........How will this hurt St. Louis run for another World Series appearance????

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Well, Rolen didn't do anything in the LDS or the World Series last year...

 

Losing him will hurt, but he's not completely irreplaceable like Chris Carpenter is.