Stats - how important are they

[theghost20]

I know this topic has been discussed before, but I was just wondering what others thought. After a match with a team that will remain nameless, their coach turned in their stats to be forwarded to the local newspaper. This team lost it's match in 2 games 15-25, 16-25. Their stats indicated that two players combined kills was 33. Obviously that can't happen in a rally scoring match if a kill is what I believe it to be. This made me wonder about how this kind of poor reporting of stats might figure into post season awards. Since most (at least in our area) newspaper reporting is done via a fax for the box scores, or someone posts some stats on this site, this might be the only info that a "voter" might have to base his/her vote on.

 

I don't know if we are 100% correct in how we keep stats, but I think we are at least consistent and make every attempt to be fair. Here's our method - please correct if you see anything that is wrong or questionable.

 

Serves

 

Attempts = Aces + Good + Errors

 

% Aces = Aces / Attempts * 100

 

Serve % = (Aces + Good) / Attempts * 100

 

Receiving

 

Attempts = To Target + Off Target + Playable + Errors

 

Receiving Ratio = ((To Target *3) + (Off Target * 2) + Playable) / Attempts

 

Sets (Assists)

 

Attempts = Assists + Good + Errors

 

Setting % = (Assists + Good) / Attempts * 100

 

Assist % = Assists / Attempts * 100

 

Attacks

 

Attempts = Kills + Good + Errors

 

Attack % = (Kills + Good) / Attempts * 100

 

Kill % = (Kills - Errors) / Attempts * 100

 

Digs

 

Attempts = Good + Errors

 

Dig % = Good / Attempts * 100

 

Blocks

 

Attempts = Solo + Assists + Deflections + Errors

 

Individual Player Blocking % = (Solo + Assists) / Attempts *100

 

Team Blocking % = (Solo + (.5 * Assists)) / Attempts * 100

 

Thanks...

[PageMan]

Your formulas appear to be correct to me, ghost. Stats kept by teams can be questionable as you pointed out. Sometimes teams will pad their stats so that they appear better than they actually played. Since stats reported by teams to newspapers are sometimes in error, I don't know how useful they are. I know when I try to gather stats during a match, I make errors or miss things. It's hard to see & record every play so I gather what I feel that is important to note. Serving, Scoring, Errors (if possible), and Subs are all that I can keep up with and still enjoy the game. I assume most teams have several team members or others keeping up with digs, blocks, assists, return errors, & other stats they find useful to improving their play.

[clifford20]

Your formulas appear to be correct to me, ghost.  Stats kept by teams can be questionable as you pointed out.  Sometimes teams will pad their stats so that they appear better than they actually played.  Since stats reported by teams to newspapers are sometimes in error, I don't know how useful they are.  I know when I try to gather stats during a match, I make errors or miss things.  It's hard to see & record every play so I gather what I feel that is important to note.  Serving, Scoring, Errors (if possible), and Subs are all that I can keep up with and still enjoy the game.  I assume most teams have several team members or others keeping up with digs, blocks, assists, return errors, & other stats they find useful to improving their play.

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Agree, last week after Siegel roasted Riverdale, the paper said that RHS had over 20 blocks. That is nuts. THey barley scored 20 points let alone have 20 blocks.

 

Stats are useless. If a team averages 4-5 blocks a match...not game, they are doing really well. Obviously RHS counted "a touch" as a block.

[Cowboys Up]

When I keep stats (and I usually keep the bare minimum - total attacks, kills, blocks, serves) especially the kills, I only count it as a kill if it hits the floor or forces an error. If it is a kill attempt that goes over and the defense should be able to pass the ball but shanks it, I don't count that as a kill. I have much tougher standards, I guess, since we don't report our stats to the local paper. Now that I'm keeping score again, there is really no one on our team that can keep stats. I hope the papers don't go by stats to pick any kind of all-star team.

 

Ghost, this 15 or more kills during a game certainly looks suspect to me, especially if this is from one player. I just don't keep stats that way.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Cowboys Up

[Cowboys Up]

Agree, last week after Siegel roasted Riverdale, the paper said that RHS had over 20 blocks.  That is nuts.  THey barley scored 20 points let alone have 20 blocks.

 

Stats are useless.  If a team averages 4-5 blocks a match...not game, they are doing really well.  Obviously RHS counted "a touch" as a block.

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I really hate that inflated numbers get reported. I think that's bad sportsmanship.

[play4keeps]

I really hate that inflated numbers get reported.  I think that's bad sportsmanship.

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Stats are something I would really like to learn. As scorekeeper, I don't really have the opportunity during school season but I guess that's what club season is for

[bd4vols]

I have a session and try to teach the girls how to keep stats. After 2-3 games of seeing ridiculous stuff last year I decided enough was enough. They still miss stuff and get stuff wrong, but i try to tape as much as I can watch it from there. My stat sheets have info like what Ghost gave, but I working on another trying to simplify it more for them.

[TheGreatLineJudge]

Great post, ghost. You've raised an important issue that's widely misunderstood, misinterpreted, and outright inflated in many parts of the state. It is absolutely impossible for a team to have more kills than they do points. In order to achieve a kill, the ball must immediately contact the floor for a point. I've made posts about stat definitions, and I may merge the topics for definition reference purposes only.

 

I love the formulas. I must admit that I've not had a lot of personal experience with detailed volleyball statistics, especially with the percentages. I hope the formulas you've posted, or something very similar to them, will become the standard for readers on this site. Perhaps they will make use of them on the sidelines. But to keep accurate statistics, as well as recognize good (and bad!) officiating, etc., you must understand the game. We've got a long way to go there.

[Generally Speaking]

I think that stats are important in identifying areas for improvement. Are we serving well? Are we getting enough attacks? Are we putting the ball down?

 

The stats you keep Ghost are pretty detailed in an attempt to identify the level of play. These are similar to the ones reported in The Volleyball Coaching Bible. More power to you to getting all the numbers you are keeping.

 

I've tried to keep it fairly simple and black and white. The NCAA has scoring instructions and scoresheets that I've seen used for college games. I've included the link for the instructions and the scoresheets are also in the same area of that web site.

 

I would really like to incorporate the serve receive and passing stats. During club we had one dad keeping attacks and another keeping passing. I also keep a running play-by-play for each point. I've had several times where the girls at the scorer's table have missed points and we've gone to mine to correct. I grew up keeping score of baseball games and this was a natural progression into another sport that I am passionate about.

 

 

 

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/volleyball/instructions.pdf

Edited August 31, 2005 by Generally Speaking

[VballDaddy78]

Great post, ghost. You've raised an important issue that's widely misunderstood, misinterpreted, and outright inflated in many parts of the state. It is absolutely impossible for a team to have more kills than they do points. In order to achieve a kill, the ball must immediately contact the floor for a point. I've made posts about stat definitions, and I may merge the topics for definition reference purposes only.

 

I love the formulas. I must admit that I've not had a lot of personal experience with detailed volleyball statistics, especially with the percentages. I hope the formulas you've posted, or something very similar to them, will become the standard for readers on this site. Perhaps they will make use of them on the sidelines. But to keep accurate statistics, as well as recognize good (and bad!) officiating, etc., you must understand the game. We've got a long way to go there.

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According to the NCAA Box Score Form a kill is "awarded any time an attack attempt is unreturnable by the opposition or any time the attack attempt leads directly to a blocking error by the opponent". Also, I thought a kill was only possible if you "spiked" the ball but according to the NCAA the ball may be "spiked, set, tipped or hit as an overhead contact" that then is unreturnable or leads to a blocking error.

[theghost20]

According to the NCAA Box Score Form a kill is "awarded any time an attack attempt is unreturnable by the opposition or any time the attack attempt leads directly to a blocking error by the opponent".  Also, I thought a kill was only possible if you "spiked" the ball but according to the NCAA the ball may be "spiked, set, tipped or hit as an overhead contact" that then is unreturnable or leads to a blocking error.

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The method described in your quote is how we track "kills". I think the key there is "an attack attempt is unreturnable" - if the ball gets dug (cleanly) and then the team doesn't do anything with it, it doesn't count as a kill even though we score - at least in our system. Only if the "attack" itself results in an error. The grey area seems to be if a ball is touched and sort of batted around - if it's just sort of ricocheting off of players, it counts. Agree?

[BlueBlooded]

I've seen a few teams that are resorting to the palm pilot stats. I imagine it can be very time consuming to learn the program and a bit costly if nothing else. However, I also imagine it would take alot of the guess work out of the girls keeping stats. I have noticed the Lebanon coaching staff using this method this year. I haven't asked, but I think this system is probably a bit more accurate this year. Anybody else started using this system this year or within the past few years? If so, how well does it work in terms of accuracy?