yes or no only

[Indian]

The system has also produced drug dealers, rapists and others who have contributed little or nothing. All types are educated here and despite the teachers' best efforts, all types are produced. That reflects in test scores, dropout rates, and athletic participation. I have little doubt that with ideal parent support, the kind you'll find at a Division I private since several thousand dollars a year are being spent, you'd see close to if not 100 percent going on to college, higher test scores on the ACT or SAT.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I've been on both sides of this debate. I attended a public and played sports ... and then a private and played sports. I can see both sides and excelled at both ... but had a better chance for success at the private.

 

I can easily argue that going to a public school gives a kid the most rounded education available. At least it does here in Jackson. For one kids that go to private schools here have no real grasp with interacting with members of other races. The private schools here are predominantly white. So socially public schools are much better.

[MCHSBballfan]

I don't have much cause to watch all sports, so this is just from a BBall stand point, but I would have to say that the multiplier did NOT work in AA. At least in District 5. The only private that we had was Boyd Buchanan, and they would have been better served to have played in A. Our school went to the state in boys and girls BBall, and I don't believe that we encountered a private school anywhere along the way. I don't think that they hurt our team any. From what I saw, the private schools were the lossers in the multiplier game.

[tnsddeveloper]

I can easily argue that going to a public school gives a kid the most rounded education available. At least it does here in Jackson. For one kids that go to private schools here have no real grasp with interacting with members of other races. The private schools here are predominantly white. So socially public schools are much better.

Things must be drastically different in Jackson ... as a percentage of population, there were as many minorities in my private as there was at the public I attended. Beyond that, participating in little league baseball, football, basketball ... my interaction with a minority was in no way limited. My best friend at FCS was a minority ... and I never, ever saw his color.

 

While at the public ... my well rounded education included knowing which restrooms were "available" to use and which ones were the ones to get pummeled if you mistakenly entered into it. It included teachers being arrested by the DEA/FBI for drug trafficking from Mexico. It included a teacher that got into an argument with his "partner" (and girls basketball coach) and kidnapped a kid from their apartment complex.

 

Well rounded??? If that is what you want to call it.

Edited May 31, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[tnsddeveloper]

What do you think, exactly, would give them an advantage?

Why don't you tell me? What would give them a better advantage by staying in a public?

 

Would it be the lower test scores? The delapadated buildings? The overcrowded classrooms? The higher percentage of crime and arrested per capita? The teacher-student romantic relationships? And on and on ....

 

Which one of those would give my child an advantage?

[BlackAndBlueDevil]

Why don't you tell me? What would give them a better advantage by staying in a public?

 

Would it be the lower test scores? The delapadated buildings? The overcrowded classrooms? The higher percentage of crime and arrested per capita? The teacher-student romantic relationships? And on and on ....

 

Which one of those would give my child an advantage?

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

 

Which public school/system are you referring to?

 

And a lot, if not all, of these problems can be traced back to people's unwillingness to contribute taxpayer dollars to public education. These are often the same people that gripe about the state of our schools and the quality of what they are producing.

 

You are well within your rights to choose private education for your son or daughter. However, I don't think you've made valid points in your smug (or so it appears) bashing of publics.

 

I went to Lebanon, where the facilities are subpar, classrooms are overcrowded, there is probably a higher crime rate and lower test scores, and if I'm not mistaken a teacher/student relationship here and there.

 

I was also a National Merit Finalist that got accepted everywhere I applied (Duke, Vandy, Wake among them). I know that sounds like bragging, but I'm making a point. The state of my high school had precious little to do with the quality of my education. For me it was all about parental involvement, as I suspect it is with other students.

 

That's why it seems like privates offer so much more. The kind of parent that cares enough (and has the means) to yank their son/daughter out of a public and put them somewhere "safe" is the type that will put in the effort to foster academic success. Therefore, test scores and whatnot adjust accordingly.

 

If the general public would stop complaining about public education and actually put their money where their mouth is, a lot of this discussion wouldn't apply.

 

I know the tax base is smaller in some areas, but there is always room for improvement when it comes to education. Children are our most valuable resource.

 

Sorry about the rant, I came unglued a bit. I'm just tired of being viewed as inferior because my parents didn't have the money to send me somewhere else (not that they would have anyway)

[muffin]

Well spoken devil,proud of your sucess.

[BlackAndBlueDevil]

My best friend at FCS was a minority ... and I never, ever saw his color.

 

While at the public ... my well rounded education included knowing which restrooms were "available" to use and which ones were the ones to get pummeled if you mistakenly entered into it. It included teachers being arrested by the DEA/FBI for drug trafficking from Mexico. It included a teacher that got into an argument with his "partner" (and girls basketball coach) and kidnapped a kid from their apartment complex.

 

Well rounded??? If that is what you want to call it.

 

I'd really like to know which public you are referring to.

 

FCS? Friendship Christian? To even slightly suggest that FCS is ethnically diverse is laughable.

 

And I appreciate your sentiment about never seeing your friend's color, and I understand the point you were trying to make. But to suggest you never "saw" that is ridiculous. Of course you did. People have physical differences, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Indian]

That is exactly what I meant, either on this or another topic, some of them are similar so it's hard to keep up with them all. It sounds as if you could have done well at any private school, MBA, McCallie, whichever. Those schools are full of students who can do well at them, sounds silly but needs to be pointed out, while the public schools will have all types. That's the main reason behind test score differences and in percentage going on to college. I thought that was obvious and didn't even need to be explained, must have been the public school education.

[tnsddeveloper]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

 

Which public school/system are you referring to?

Your school system actually! Recently, I remember police showing up on campus due to gang-related talk of a shoot out. Sounds like a very sound environment for learning.

 

And a lot, if not all, of these problems can be traced back to people's unwillingness to contribute taxpayer dollars to public education. These are often the same people that gripe about the state of our schools and the quality of what they are producing.

Unwillingness to contribute taxpayer dollars? Last I checked ... you don't have a choice. An unwillingness to pay tax payer dollars gets you tossed into the pokey.

 

But you do emphasize one issue that is important here. That we should just through money at problems. That is not the solution. It is called accountability. Until school systems, administrators, and teachers are accountable for the deficiencies ... the public school system will continue to struggle.

 

You are well within your rights to choose private education for your son or daughter. However, I don't think you've made valid points in your smug (or so it appears) bashing of publics.

No smuggness here. I would love for the public school system to operate the way it is supposed to. I would love to send my kids to a public place of learning, safety, and pride ... but those things aren't there anymore.

 

I went to Lebanon, where the facilities are subpar, classrooms are overcrowded, there is probably a higher crime rate and lower test scores, and if I'm not mistaken a teacher/student relationship here and there.

That makes my point exactly. I believe those are pretty much exactly the things that I said. Although, since it came from you ... there isn't any "smug"-ness there huh?

 

I was also a National Merit Finalist that got accepted everywhere I applied (Duke, Vandy, Wake among them). I know that sounds like bragging, but I'm making a point. The state of my high school had precious little to do with the quality of my education. For me it was all about parental involvement, as I suspect it is with other students.

Congrats for you. I was a National Merit Finalist too. I was admitted to everywhere I applied. I was recruited due to my grades and athletic abilities to Duke, Cal-Berkeley, and the Naval Academy. Just like you, I was succeeding at the public school level too - before ending up at a private. But if you don't think that the school environment doesn't make a difference for a large percentage of the student population, then you really do have your head in the sand.

 

If the general public would stop complaining about public education and actually put their money where their mouth is, a lot of this discussion wouldn't apply.

Again, throwing money at the situation does not fix it. ACCOUNTABILITY.

 

Sorry about the rant, I came unglued a bit. I'm just tired of being viewed as inferior because my parents didn't have the money to send me somewhere else (not that they would have anyway)

I don't believe anyone has said you were inferior. I even stated that I attended a public - yours . If you feel inferior, you have more of a self esteem issue than an issue of others thinking you are inferior.

Edited June 1, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[BlackAndBlueDevil]

Unwillingness to contribute taxpayer dollars? Last I checked ... you don't have a choice. An unwillingness to pay tax payer dollars gets you tossed into the pokey.

 

But you do emphasize one issue that is important here. That we should just through money at problems. That is not the solution. It is called accountability. Until school systems, administrators, and teachers are accountable for the deficiencies ... the public school system will continue to struggle.

 

But if you don't think that the school environment doesn't make a difference for a large percentage of the student population, then you really do have your head in the sand.

 

If you feel inferior, you have more of a self esteem issue than an issue of others thinking you are inferior.

 

I'm not referring to not paying one's taxes, I'm referring to the consistent opposition to any increase in taxes or (gasp!) an income tax. I'm not talking about throwing money at the problem; I'm talking about adequately compensating our teachers so they don't defect to Rutherford County, as well as updating facilities and technology so we are within spitting distance of more successful public districts.

 

Accountability, yes, but how do you achieve that? Getting rid of tenure and imposing penalties for low standardized test scores does nothing but force teachers to teach to a test (wow that's a mouthful) and put the fate of educators' careers in arguably subjective hands.

 

I believe that opportunity, instead, gives students the best chance for success. And yes, opportunity usually costs money.

 

I'll agree that the environment makes a difference. But instead of yanking one's kids out of said environment, how about putting a stake in the success of a public?

 

Of course, everyone is entitled to make whatever decision is best for their child, and sending yours to a private may very well be the right one. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

I guess I do have a self-esteem issue, then. Or maybe I've had a different experience than you, and you are speaking to something you have no idea about?

 

I don't mean to sound spiteful, I'm just trying to share my thoughts. I apologize if I've offended you.

[tnsddeveloper]

I'm not referring to not paying one's taxes, I'm referring to the consistent opposition to any increase in taxes or (gasp!) an income tax. I'm not talking about throwing money at the problem; I'm talking about adequately compensating our teachers so they don't defect to Rutherford County, as well as updating facilities and technology so we are within spitting distance of more successful public districts.

Why in the world do we need another increase in taxes? Again ... everything comes down to accountability. This time from politicians and government officials. State tax coffers are overflowing with cash. Why not vote in accountable politicians and pick officials that will use that cash effectively? The lesser pay rate for Wilson Co. teachers is less than surrounding counties ... but that isn't a lack of cash issue ... it is again, an accountability issue.

 

Accountability, yes, but how do you achieve that? Getting rid of tenure and imposing penalties for low standardized test scores does nothing but force teachers to teach to a test (wow that's a mouthful) and put the fate of educators' careers in arguably subjective hands.

Subjective hands? If the kids can't pass standardized tests of things that are supposed to be taught, then the teachers don't deserve to keep their jobs. How in the world is that subjective? Everyone that holds down a job is accountable for their job performances ... why are teachers any different?

 

I believe that opportunity, instead, gives students the best chance for success. And yes, opportunity usually costs money.

We agree here. Opportunity does give students the best chance for success. That's why I will choose to send my kids to a private.

 

I'll agree that the environment makes a difference. But instead of yanking one's kids out of said environment, how about putting a stake in the success of a public?

I have a stake in the success of a public. My taxes are my stake. The last estimate I saw was about $7000 per student in tax payer money to educate a child in TN public schools now. Gasp! That is more per capita than most private schools need!

 

Of course, everyone is entitled to make whatever decision is best for their child, and sending yours to a private may very well be the right one. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

I agree. I'm not asking you to agree with my decision. Nor am I asking you to send your kids to a private.

 

I guess I do have a self-esteem issue, then. Or maybe I've had a different experience than you, and you are speaking to something you have no idea about?

No, I have a really good idea of my experiences and of yours (I know you ... you just don't know it ).

 

I don't mean to sound spiteful, I'm just trying to share my thoughts. I apologize if I've offended you.

No offense here. Your thoughts are well respected. That's why I take the time to reply to each statement. I'm sorry that I hit a nerve.

Edited June 2, 2006 by tnsddeveloper