New rule by the TSSAA

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While I am not a fan of it (but maybe I am) I think the rule is in place to prevent fall baseball and softball, fall boys club soccer, spring girls club soccer, and spring AAU basketball from keeping players playing in the traditional sports of that time of year. Fall baseball/softball prevents alot of guys from playing football or girls playing volleyball (I am not sure when club volleyball is--Spring?) or from keeping AAU spring basketball from preventing kids playing baseball/softball. Summer would still be wide open as far as I know I am not a soccer guy but as a football and baseball guy I have lost good football playerd to fall ball and good baseball players to AAU basketball. So that would be a non-soccer prespective.

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While I am not a fan of it (but maybe I am) I think the rule is in place to prevent fall baseball and softball, fall boys club soccer, spring girls club soccer, and spring AAU basketball from keeping players playing in the traditional sports of that time of year. Fall baseball/softball prevents alot of guys from playing football or girls playing volleyball (I am not sure when club volleyball is--Spring?) or from keeping AAU spring basketball from preventing kids playing baseball/softball. Summer would still be wide open as far as I know I am not a soccer guy but as a football and baseball guy I have lost good football playerd to fall ball and good baseball players to AAU basketball. So that would be a non-soccer prespective.

[Canesoverhere]

Ha! You're right! I think cheerleading is one of the most hardcore year round activities out there. I have a lot of students in middle school that train twice as hard for "club" cheerleading as do my highschool soccer boys.

 

Is there a way to validate this (that CHEER would also be impacted) with TSSAA? If so, perhasp we have just added about 10,000 fingernails on our side.

[repete]

Ha! You're right! I think cheerleading is one of the most hardcore year round activities out there. I have a lot of students in middle school that train twice as hard for "club" cheerleading as do my highschool soccer boys.

 

BigG,

 

You may know this already but I thought I would share this info with the group. I spoke with the president of TSSAA to understand when,if the 50% rule would pass, it would go into effect. What I was told was this: In two weeks all the new proposals will be disscused in commitee, some may end up on the cutting room floor, some will go on for a vote in March. With any luck the 50% may go away in two weeks. If it makes it through commitee then it will be voted on in March and should it pass it will go into effect for school year 2007-2008. What he explained to me was that it did not mean that any one who should be playing this spring on a team with more thean the 6 players will be effected because right now the rule is not in place. It would start effecting them for their club season spring 2008.

[BigG]

BigG,

 

You may know this already but I thought I would share this info with the group. I spoke with the president of TSSAA to understand when,if the 50% rule would pass, it would go into effect. What I was told was this: In two weeks all the new proposals will be disscused in commitee, some may end up on the cutting room floor, some will go on for a vote in March. With any luck the 50% may go away in two weeks. If it makes it through commitee then it will be voted on in March and should it pass it will go into effect for school year 2007-2008. What he explained to me was that it did not mean that any one who should be playing this spring on a team with more thean the 6 players will be effected because right now the rule is not in place. It would start effecting them for their club season spring 2008.

Yes, you are right. I talked to Mr. Carter yesterday about another proposal that was being voted on, and he told me the same thing. I do hope, though, that the 50% rule does what you said and will end "on the cutting room floor"!

[oknative]

What if a public high school coach---who is clearly a representative of a governmental school system--- is faced with an "excess" number of players (by rule, more than 6) trying out for a public high school team from a single select team. And what if the public school coach cuts some of those kids from the public high school team, not because they weren't good enough to make the team, but solely because they weren't among the "best 6" from the particular select team group. That sounds alot like the "cut" players, who would have made the team but for their association with a particular group of private citizens outside of school (his/her select team), are now being discriminated against by a governmental entity and denied elements of their constitutional right to a free and appropriate public education---a right that I believe includes the right to fairly participate in extracurricular programs if they are offered.

 

The TSSAA does this all the time.

Look at their residency rules. If I move 15 miles from Davidson County to Wilson county, so that my son changes schools. The TSSAA prevents him from playing soccer for 12 months with Wilson County. Under your definition, isn't that "infringing" upon his rights of assembly on a team he's now properly zoned for.

 

Or the TSSAA preventing kids from playing soccer on a HS team and league team in the same season. Why?? Two different schedules with different players. What's the big deal.

 

I see a very hard time establishing"descrimination" on this issue and doubt seriously that it will qualify as descrimination. They aren't governing club teams, or if we can change residence, or even who we can play with - only the participation regulations of the body they govern - high school sports. We may not like it, but they do make the rules.

[Hoya]

The TSSAA does this all the time.

Look at their residency rules. If I move 15 miles from Davidson County to Wilson county, so that my son changes schools. The TSSAA prevents him from playing soccer for 12 months with Wilson County. Under your definition, isn't that "infringing" upon his rights of assembly on a team he's now properly zoned for.

 

Or the TSSAA preventing kids from playing soccer on a HS team and league team in the same season. Why?? Two different schedules with different players. What's the big deal.

 

I see a very hard time establishing"descrimination" on this issue and doubt seriously that it will qualify as descrimination. They aren't governing club teams, or if we can change residence, or even who we can play with - only the participation regulations of the body they govern - high school sports. We may not like it, but they do make the rules.

 

Just because the TSSAA attempts to impose restrictions does not mean the rules are wise or legally justifiable. TSSAA, just like every other governmental or partially-governmental agency, may make rules provided they play within the bounds of the law. TSSAA learned that lesson, brutally, in the BA case.

 

I think this proposed rule may be subject to a legal challenge. More important, I think the rule is stupid, is contrary to the kids' best interests and should be rejected.

 

 

This rule is being proposed to "level the playing field". It will have the opposite effect in soccer. The "haves"---the city schools with multiple club programs will be fine and for the most part won't miss a beat. The "have nots", the rural schools or areas with only one club or, sometimes, only one team, will get hammered ( for example, Lenoir City's old "Blaze" team had mostly LC players on it aged 13-18 and they played together for years). And for what? To keep some AAU basketball teams from playing year round.

 

I, agree that a legal challenge to the proposed rule would be difficult; however, I have no doubt that the effect and intention of the proposed rule is to deprive certain high school students (the weakest players of the group exceeding the outside team quota) of their right to participate in high school athletics solely because of who that student chooses to associate with outside of school (i.e. his/her club team). The kid (or kids) who gets cut solely because the high school coach has to comply with the rule (that will be the weakest athlete or athletes of the group coming from the same outside team) can only reestablish his/her right to participate on the high school team by associating with a new out-of-school group of people (i.e. a new team). If they change outside teams, the formerly cut player or players will be "rewarded" by now being accepted by the coach onto the high school team.

 

That is not a wise rule, nor is it likely to be legal.

 

As for the residence/transfer rules, you need to look at them again. They are pretty complicated and all transfer eligibility decisions require approval from TSSAA's Executive Director. But I believe that a transfer student truly moving from one school district to another because of a "bona fide change of residence" (a defined term in the TSSAA Handbook) by his/her parents and who otherwise satisfies the other requirements of Rules 11-15, is eligible to play immediately at the new school. If the move was contrived to simply switch teams where you simply established an address in the new system while maintaining your old address as well, or if it was designed to help the student to avoid discipline at the former school, there will still be eligibility issues. But if it was a genuine move from Davidson Co. to Wilson Co. (the distances are irrelevant if the formal georgraphic boundaries of the district are crossed), I think your student should be eligible at the time of enrollment in the new school. It is the new school's responsibility to apply for approval and to provide accurate information to the TSSAA concerning the move. If this is what happened to you, you need to talk to the new school's AD or principal.

Edited December 8, 2006 by hoya75

[BigG]

Hoya, you are a lot smarter than you look. Good post above.

 

There were some rumors that the TSSAA was voting on some of the changes on Wednesday. I called and they said that the meeting was only setting the calendar for what they are voting on. The actual vote still is not scheduled until March.

 

I have also heard that soccer is trying to get the games increased to 16 (opposite of reducing to 14) regular games per season. I don't know how valid this is. (personally, I have a hard time fitting 15 games in with spring break and our highschool junior and senior trips) I'll look into it and let you know.

[Whitey]

Hoya, you are a lot smarter than you look. Good post above.

 

There were some rumors that the TSSAA was voting on some of the changes on Wednesday. I called and they said that the meeting was only setting the calendar for what they are voting on. The actual vote still is not scheduled until March.

 

I have also heard that soccer is trying to get the games increased to 16 (opposite of reducing to 14) regular games per season. I don't know how valid this is. (personally, I have a hard time fitting 15 games in with spring break and our highschool junior and senior trips) I'll look into it and let you know.

 

 

 

The info is in their minutes for the meeting earlier this week on the TSSAA website: 16 games, limited to two tournaments, etc., etc.

Edited December 8, 2006 by Whitey

[BigG]

From the TSSAA minutes: (I only added the ones that would apply to soccer)

 

Voted to make the following changes to the proposed calendar to be sent to the schools for their review over the next three months, with final action at the March meeting.

 

Do not change practice dates and leave as presently stated in current regulations.

 

Limit of four preseason scrimmages or two dates from the time practice begins. Teams would have the option of either four scrimmages, two dates, or two scrimmages and one date. All teams must practice three days before scrimmaging on the fourth day.

 

Definition of preseason scrimmages: A school is limited to four preseason scrimmages or practice involving another school. This begins when practice starts and ends when the first official contests begins for either school. No Tournament format of any type can be used. In addition, practice uniforms should be worn.

 

Number of proposed contests

 

Girls' soccer, soccer: 16, maximum of two tournaments with tournaments counting two matches

 

Tournament: Any type of advancement format whether it be conventional bracket, pool play, etc., to determine a champion.

 

Make no change to the Open Facilities rule.

 

Leave Off-season practice rule as it currently is.

 

50% rule - Continue discussion of the addition of this rule.

 

Make no change to the Dead Period rule.

 

No practice for fall sports in June until July 15. Leave beginning practice dates as presently stated. Permit fall sports to have 10 days of school competition from July 15 to beginning practice date. No pads permitted in football. This would allow school vs. school camps, passing leagues, etc.

 

If you would like to read all of the minutes you can find it here:

 

http://tssaa.org/LegislativeCouncil/Actions/December2006.htm

[mrh11]

thats a crazy rule, and I think hoya knows what he is talking about when he says it is probably not legal. I agree that it simply will not help anything and could cause a lot of problems for the weaker club players. I just discovered this proposed rule and havent read all of the posts about it, but it seems like the purpose of it is definately not worthy of punishing innocent players.

[kickgrass]

I just thought of this. It will affect girls, but unfortunately not boys. I'll try to write this in a way that it makes sense. For club soccer teams registration with TSSA runs from July 1 till July 1 of the following year. So boys (playing club soccer in the fall would be impacted by the proposed rule),

 

but girls don't have to sign a commitment/permission to roster form (and be registered with a team) until it is time to actually register them.

 

They don't have to be registered until it is time to participate in games/tournaments with the club team.

 

They can not participate in club games/tournaments until the High school season is over

 

So they register for club following the State High School tournament

 

Technically they are not on any club team during the High School season if they aren't registered with the club team during that time. Lots of kids change club teams from season to season.