Privates Better Coaches

[FCSprideatUT]

I'm no school attendance legal expert, but I THINK the law only requires one to attend school until age 16. I know I was shocked a few years ago when I learned firsthand how many inner city kids drop out of school when they turn 16. I can't verify Baldcoach's exact numbers (I'll leave the details to him) but I believe the number is alarmingly high.

 

And BTW, how could you legislate mandatory graduation?

 

I incorrectly said graduate in my previous post... uh, my bad lol.

I do not know if there is an age or anything of the sort that you can drop out but i would be shocked if the age were 16 instead of 18. and your right, you could not mandate graduation, but i feel as if there should be a mandate on attending classes. But regardless of all of this it is getting off point.

I realize that i get rash when talking and i sometimes pass my oppinions and assumptions as fact which i apoligize for.

I was trying to get the point across that i highly doubt only 1 out of 4 graduates and goes to college. I clearly was bad at it....

 

As for the actual stats and figures.... i really don't know what to say. That is flat out scary. This is the stuff that should be on the front page of the tennessean everyday because i think most people are like the people on these boards. They hear 1 in 4 don't go, They say to themselves "no way, i mean.. sure alot of kids don't but not that many".. and the come to find out it is probobly more..... wow.

Edited January 26, 2007 by FCSprideatUT

[MPHSTIGERS87]

My experience is that the publics do have much better athletic pools than the small privates...I know that that doesn't apply in every case, speaking generally here.

 

Yep that explains why the "small" privates have won 6 of the last 7 state championships in 1A. I wonder why if they have less superior athletes. Geez give me a break. Like I said before, maybe there are a "few" privates that do spend a lot of money and time on recruiting, just not at the next level.

[Bighurt]

Yep that explains why the "small" privates have won 6 of the last 7 state championships in 1A. I wonder why if they have less superior athletes. Geez give me a break. Like I said before, maybe there are a "few" privates that do spend a lot of money and time on recruiting, just not at the next level.

You really don't have a clue. Have much more uninformed can you get?

[MPHSTIGERS87]

You really don't have a clue. Have much more uninformed can you get?

 

I dont have a clue? You have a private poster on here saying that there is more talent in public schools that privates. At a higher classification I can agree to that. Public schools play kids that generally grow up in that community or move in for working reasons. 1A public schools dont draw kids from nine different counties or charge $1000 parking. I'm sorry I dont bow down to the holier than thous and just believe its true because it comes from a private. I have my opinion and I can state it. So yes I do think I'm informed, just not to the almighty privates beiefs.

[BigG]

1A public schools dont draw kids from nine different counties or charge $1000 parking. I'm sorry I dont bow down to the holier than thous and just believe its true because it comes from a private. I have my opinion and I can state it. So yes I do think I'm informed, just not to the almighty privates beiefs.

A question for you MPHS... How many private schools charge $1000 for parking? I believe there is one school that does that (though it is a booster club fund raiser, which I think is a little different). And there is one school that advertises that it draws from 9 different counties. So all together, two private schools out of the many privates that don't. I could let Bald Coach do the math (he's better at it than I am) but I would imagine that it is a pretty low percentage.

 

So I guess my point is, that you say that public schools don't draw kids from 9 counties or charge $1000 for parking, but neither do 90% (+/-)of privates. I actually don't think your beef is with all privates, but just a select few. I'm not sure if you have an accurate picture of private schools, in general, just as I don't have an accurate picture of small publics. As Bald Coach said, small privates (and I am not talking about the small "powerhouse" privates) usually don't have the best athletes. I would go as far as to say the majority of small privates don't have the athletes. Just a select few that perform well year after year draw the athletes. "Success breeds success". You might call it recruiting. I would like to think of it as wanting to be a part of something great.

 

I don't think I will ever convince you that privates aren't as bad as you perceive them, but I do hope that I can at least make you see that we are not this ugly ogre who preys on the poor small publics. We work very hard at what we do, as do the public schools do. When publics succeed, they seem to get a pat on the back. When privates succeed, people are looking for the "real reason". I don't think that is very just, do you?

 

And also, please note, that I am not trying to be ugly or to encite you. I actually do like a healthy informed debate on this issue. I'm not going to throw "zingers" at you, but I do hope that you will at least give us a shot at looking at this objectively.

[MPHSTIGERS87]

Ok let me give you a scenerio. Zion Christian Academy is only a few miles from Mt. Pleasant. Lets say Zion has put together a powerhouse football team through whatever means. I'm a freshman football star who has great potential living in Columbia (same county as MP and ZCA). Im behind some great players at Central whos football team isnt doing well. Both MP and Zion have had great success and I'm looking to transfer to one of those two schools. I know I will have to sit out a year at either school, but finacially I'm better off going to Zion because they offer me academic finacial help and different programs to help eliminate my tuition. If I go to MP I have to pay zoning fee without any help whatsover because public schools doesnt offer any assistance. Where do you think I would go? Even worse is if I live in Summertown which is close to both MP and Zion but is in a whole different county. I cant even consider MP unless my whole family moves into their zone, however there is no penelty at all to attend Zion and still live in Summertown. I know there is good people in privates and they mean well, but tell me how at a 1A level this is a fair playing field. It is proven to be fact as privates have won 6 of the last 7 state championships.

[BigG]

Ok let me give you a scenerio. Zion Christian Academy is only a few miles from Mt. Pleasant. Lets say Zion has put together a powerhouse football team through whatever means. I'm a freshman football star who has great potential living in Columbia (same county as MP and ZCA). Im behind some great players at Central whos football team isnt doing well. Both MP and Zion have had great success and I'm looking to transfer to one of those two schools. I know I will have to sit out a year at either school, but finacially I'm better off going to Zion because they offer me academic finacial help and different programs to help eliminate my tuition. If I go to MP I have to pay zoning fee without any help whatsover because public schools doesnt offer any assistance. Where do you think I would go? Even worse is if I live in Summertown which is close to both MP and Zion but is in a whole different county. I cant even consider MP unless my whole family moves into their zone, however there is no penelty at all to attend Zion and still live in Summertown. I know there is good people in privates and they mean well, but tell me how at a 1A level this is a fair playing field. It is proven to be fact as privates have won 6 of the last 7 state championships.

But if this child gets any financial help (academic, athletic, religious), he cannot participate in athletics for the school.

 

I also think that your zoning laws are one issue that is unfair. Your school board has a closed zone. Alcoa has an open zone. Neither is set by the TSSAA, but by your local govt.

 

I actually agree that there are some advantages. I don't think it enough to cause a split, though, because you could find a lot of advantages in different areas even among public schools. If we split over every difference, we would have 20 different classifications.

[Antwan]

But if this child gets any financial help (academic, athletic, religious), he cannot participate in athletics for the school.

 

I also think that your zoning laws are one issue that is unfair. Your school board has a closed zone. Alcoa has an open zone. Neither is set by the TSSAA, but by your local govt.

 

I actually agree that there are some advantages. I don't think it enough to cause a split, though, because you could find a lot of advantages in different areas even among public schools. If we split over every difference, we would have 20 different classifications.

 

Nah...2 private and 2 or 3 pubic is good enough for me. The reason FCS draws from that many counties is because it is in a less populated area. I am surprised at that number...though. The Davidson...Hamilton...Knox County private schools are in much more populated areas.

[MPHSTIGERS87]

But if this child gets any financial help (academic, athletic, religious), he cannot participate in athletics for the school.

 

Are you saying that truely is the case in all privates. It might be a rule, but is it really followed? I know some privates go by it, but it isnt the case in all situations. Can I prove it on paper? NO. But I have a lot of contacts in privates that say it happens quite often. I guess this debate will be pointless until one of them get busted. This is my belief and mine only and it disturbs me. I would like to see TSSAA investigate all privates on 1A level and just see what the results would be. Not to bust people but to put this debate to rest.

Edited January 26, 2007 by MPHSTIGERS87

[BigG]

Are you saying that truely is the case in all privates. It might be a rule, but is it really followed? I know some privates go by it, but it isnt the case in all situations. Can I prove it on paper? NO. But I have a lot of contacts in privates that say it happens quite often. I guess this debate will be pointless until one of them get busted. This is my belief and mine only and it disturbs me. I would like to see TSSAA investigate all privates on 1A level and just see what the results would be. Not to bust people but to put this debate to rest.

Actually, I agree with you on this also (I know... I think this is 2 points we have agreed upon) but I would extend it to more vigorous checking into both private and public schools. I'll bet you there are privates that are breaking the rules. I'll also bet you that there are publics. If there is a private that is breaking the rules, I do hope they get busted. It's like my mom used to pray for me when I was little, "I didn't pray that you would do no wrong, but that you would get caught if you did".

[MPHSTIGERS87]

It's like my mom used to pray for me when I was little, "I didn't pray that you would do no wrong, but that you would get caught if you did".

 

I really like that. I'm going to have to remember that one. TY.

[Baldcoach]

hey bc,

 

i am not disputing your figures.

i am saying they have nothing to do with the number of college calibre athletes available to single a public schools.

the half the students that arent going to graduate are not passing their classes,

nor are they eligible to play ball.

the kids who play ball mostly graduate.

the coaches stay all over them about it.

half the graduating half may not go to college,

but that doesnt mean half the kids offered college scholarships dont go to college.

no athlete from our school has turned down a college scholarship within my memory (unfortunately that is a substantial period of time, altho a miniscule number of kids).

the number of college athletes we have produced fairly represents the number of college calibre athletes we have had available.

 

if you can assign us imaginary athletes, i think it is perfectly fair to point out that the city of chattanooga has produced a large number of d-1 college athletes. they are all close enough to go to your school. therefore you have enough d-1 prospects available to fill every starting position on every athletic team.

 

 

Laz,

 

I made only 1 assumption, I counted 4 in your reply. Statistically which model is most likely to be accurate?

 

Keep in mind I am not talking about the kids OFFERED college scholarships, of course a high percentage of them graduate and accept them. I think you are forgetting that a kid who is likely to fail out sometime their senior year or who made a 14 on their ACT just isn't going to be offered regardless of whether they have the talent. So my assumption would still be valid. You and I both know many kids who were great in high school...good enough to play big time college ball, but they were never offered because they couldn't spell "college" much less pass to get in one.

 

Plus, you know that statistically, unless you can prove that for some reason something invalidates going with the larger data sample, you go with the larger data sample as your base. My assumption does that, your multiple ones do not. Thus, until we can find data on the drop-out/non-entry rates of athletes vs. the general population we have to assign athletes the same numbers.

 

Thus I am not imagining athletes for the public schools, the numbers say they must be there. Perhaps you just aren't seeing them...if so, come down here and I will show you films of our opponents for the last 5 years. Some beat us, some we beat, but almost all of the schools we played had multiple college level athletes on the field...it is just that most of those kids didn't go to college.