Open Zone Same As Privates That Recruit

[SwamiSays]

it is hard to say how the multipler affected privates who moved up as you would have to factor in as you said talent level...but take for instance CPA who won a tilte before and now has not...or USJ who won their region every year and finished 2nd in football I think twice before and now is winning 2 games a year...I don't have eh answer either...just talking out loud about what feels like an inequity to me...

 

 

 

I can definitely see why it can look unequal. Can someone from USJ or CPA speak to the effects of the multiplier? Did the multiplier cause the drop in wins, or was there other factors? Was it just the natural ebb and flow of talent that sometimes occur and happened to coincide with the multiplier era? Are they having trouble adjusting to the new classification? Did they lose athletes because of the multiplier? Lots of questions!

 

Jaxman, are you a USJ supporter? can you tell what happened there? Is it all multiplier related?

[SwamiSays]

Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if this poster is BACKINTN reborn, you sure do talk like him. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

 

 

In the great words of our moderator, "Wrong wrong wrong." Seriously, my friend, I am certainly not who you have referenced

[JaxMan]

I can definitely see why it can look unequal. Can someone from USJ or CPA speak to the effects of the multiplier? Did the multiplier cause the drop in wins, or was there other factors? Was it just the natural ebb and flow of talent that sometimes occur and happened to coincide with the multiplier era? Are they having trouble adjusting to the new classification? Did they lose athletes because of the multiplier? Lots of questions!

 

Jaxman, are you a USJ supporter? can you tell what happened there? Is it all multiplier related?

 

 

No I am a JCS supporter...cross town rival of USJ...

 

an interesting thread on the 1A-2A-3A football board is 2A enrollment versus polls...on page 3 Alcoa47 posts a interesting fact about Alcoa and Maryville...they take students from anywhere if they qualify and pay tuition...tuition is his term not mine...I know Alcoa and Maryville have taken alot of abuse and I don't not want to throw any stones as I suspect most of the heat they have received comes from success...but over the yearsw reading these boards the most common argument for privates getting a multipler has been success, and being able to reject students not having to take anyone who shows up...it appears from this thread they get to be selective and charge tuition and certainly the it has to be an advantage look at how many title they win argument used against privates would apply if you look at the titles in football between the two

[SwamiSays]

No I am a JCS supporter...cross town rival of USJ...

 

an interesting thread on the 1A-2A-3A football board is 2A enrollment versus polls...on page 3 Alcoa47 posts a interesting fact about Alcoa and Maryville...they take students from anywhere if they qualify and pay tuition...tuition is his term not mine...I know Alcoa and Maryville have taken alot of abuse and I don't not want to throw any stones as I suspect most of the heat they have received comes from success...but over the yearsw reading these boards the most common argument for privates getting a multipler has been success, and being able to reject students not having to take anyone who shows up...it appears from this thread they get to be selective and charge tuition and certainly the it has to be an advantage look at how many title they win argument used against privates would apply if you look at the titles in football between the two

 

 

 

I agree. If they are charging tuition for athletes to come in from other areas, then they do need to have some sort of handicap. Has anyone ever looked into how many athletes are being charged tuition at the schools you mention? And to me, it brings up the question; is there any type of financial assistance given? I serioulsy doubt it, but it does leave the door wide open for someone other then the parents to pay that tuition. Lordy, what a can of worms.

[JaxMan]

in the 70's when I played it was alot simpler...you just showed up and played...now you practice year round...schools do all sorts of things that others feel give them an advantage...I think alot of this has been created by parents demanding success...we all hate to lose so we do anything we can and look for others who are cheating...the simple game of high school football sure has changed for the worse in the last 30 or 40 years

[SwamiSays]

in the 70's when I played it was alot simpler...you just showed up and played...now you practice year round...schools do all sorts of things that others feel give them an advantage...I think alot of this has been created by parents demanding success...we all hate to lose so we do anything we can and look for others who are cheating...the simple game of high school football sure has changed for the worse in the last 30 or 40 years

 

 

The game hasnt changed as much as all the other stuff outside the lines. The idea of what it all about has completely changed for many. Win at all cost, and if I cant beat you, I can come up with an excuse of why I didnt win. And if you win too much, you must have some unfair advantage that I dont have; that seems to be the way many think these days.

 

I remember back to some of my old coaches...and I mean very old school. Yelling, screaming, jerking me around by my helmet, thumping me on the back of my head, making me bear crawl for what seemed like miles, putting me in a pit against a guy 3 years older and 50 pounds heaver...and I loved almost every minute of it! We survived those coaches and were proud of it, and the wins were an added bonus and the losses taught us lessons on how to be a man no matter what the situation. Yet those days are gone, and will never be again.

And so the world of athletics, in many places, has become a world of bickering and finger pointing, and has lost the idea of what the original intent was all about.

[JaxMan]

I agree...and I can't help but wonder is we were better prepared for a world were our competitors in business had an advantage, we didn't come form an enviroment of explaining why or finger pointing...we were taught to find a way to win...to work harder...I wonder if in our attempt as a society to help our kids if we haven't created an excuse metality to the pon that they have no hope whne they face a better compeititor in business

[SwamiSays]

I agree...and I can't help but wonder is we were better prepared for a world were our competitors in business had an advantage, we didn't come form an enviroment of explaining why or finger pointing...we were taught to find a way to win...to work harder...I wonder if in our attempt as a society to help our kids if we haven't created an excuse metality to the pon that they have no hope whne they face a better compeititor in business

 

 

 

I'm afraid you may be exactly right.

[Baldcoach]

The game hasnt changed as much as all the other stuff outside the lines. The idea of what it all about has completely changed for many. Win at all cost, and if I cant beat you, I can come up with an excuse of why I didnt win. And if you win too much, you must have some unfair advantage that I dont have; that seems to be the way many think these days.

 

I remember back to some of my old coaches...and I mean very old school. Yelling, screaming, jerking me around by my helmet, thumping me on the back of my head, making me bear crawl for what seemed like miles, putting me in a pit against a guy 3 years older and 50 pounds heaver...and I loved almost every minute of it! We survived those coaches and were proud of it, and the wins were an added bonus and the losses taught us lessons on how to be a man no matter what the situation. Yet those days are gone, and will never be again.

And so the world of athletics, in many places, has become a world of bickering and finger pointing, and has lost the idea of what the original intent was all about.

 

 

I agree with this.

 

With reference to your earlier reply about a merit system...yes, smaller schools would be playing larger schools, because number of students is one of the advantages/disadvantages. If a smaller school can compete with larger ones then it must have offsetting advantages. That is the logic behind the multiplier...all privates have so many advantages that they should be forced to compete with schools roughly double their size.

 

I contend that that is arbitrary and discriminatory. Some privates have certain advantages over local publics, some others. Some publics have certain advantages over local privates, some others. The point is that if you are going to classify based on advantages other than student body size (which is a completely objective number) then someone has to subjectively decide which advantages are the best advantages. That decision has always favored the publics and gone against the privates. A merit system treats everyone equally...no subjective decisions about whether increased parental involvement in small privates is greater than that in rural community schools, or whether money available from wealthy donors outweighs money from the government paying for everything, etc.

 

After all, who can't reasonably argue that if anyone needs a multiplier to level the playing field it is the elite public programs...but they are public, so by the current TSSAA logic they don't have advantages. I guess they just win the flip of the coin every time they play other publics... /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

Note that I would be perfectly happy going back to a classification system based on size (objective) or going to one based on merit (objective). I am not happy with arbitrary splits because of nebulous advantages (subjective) or multipliers (subjective). The problem with subjective measurements is that eventually someone comes to power who decides that another subgroup has too many 'advantages', and mutliplies them...then the witch hunt is on.

 

I warned the open zoned and magnet schools when the multiplier came out for the small privates that they were next...just as soon as the non-open publics got beaten by them enough to decide things were unfair. Now we see that being discussed all the time. It won't stop there unless we just stop it all. I forsee all but the worst 20% of the schools in the state having some kind of mutiplier...Urban multipliers, Magnet multipliers, open zoned multipliers, community multipliers, private multipliers, etc.

[NoNameD]

I agree. If they are charging tuition for athletes to come in from other areas, then they do need to have some sort of handicap. Has anyone ever looked into how many athletes are being charged tuition at the schools you mention? And to me, it brings up the question; is there any type of financial assistance given? I serioulsy doubt it, but it does leave the door wide open for someone other then the parents to pay that tuition. Lordy, what a can of worms.

 

I have asked many times for names and addresses of transfer students that pay tuition that play sports at various schools. I have gotten no response from these teams or from posters that know probably every player on their team that they support. If these teams are saying that they are winning because or superior coaching, tradition, feeder system or anything other than tuition paying transfer students then what do they have to hide by telling who these tuition paying players are. Just tell the truth and put the so called haters of these teams to rest. The truth hurts! But this solution is to simple for everyone. I do not think that the TSSAA will look into this because they might find out that some public schools are acting like private schools and they might be made to apply the multiplier to adjust their enrolment made to play private. I do not believe in the multiplier. Just make all private schools play each other for a championship and make all tuition charging public schools play the privates also because they are acting like private schools. I never said that private and public charging tuition schools could not play each other or other public schools in the regular season. They would only play public vs public (not charging tuition) for a championship in one division and private vs public (charging tuition) in the other division. Public schools that charge tuition have been hiding for years in the public division instead of playing private like they should. TSSAA allows this.

[Baldcoach]

I have asked many times for names and addresses of transfer students that pay tuition that play sports at various schools. I have gotten no response from these teams or from posters that know probably every player on their team that they support. If these teams are saying that they are winning because or superior coaching, tradition, feeder system or anything other than tuition paying transfer students then what do they have to hide by telling who these tuition paying players are. Just tell the truth and put the so called haters of these teams to rest. The truth hurts! But this solution is to simple for everyone. I do not think that the TSSAA will look into this because they might find out that some public schools are acting like private schools and they might be made to apply the multiplier to adjust their enrolment made to play private. I do not believe in the multiplier. Just make all private schools play each other for a championship and make all tuition charging public schools play the privates also because they are acting like private schools. I never said that private and public charging tuition schools could not play each other or other public schools in the regular season. They would only play public vs public (not charging tuition) for a championship in one division and private vs public (charging tuition) in the other division. Public schools that charge tuition have been hiding for years in the public division instead of playing private like they should. TSSAA allows this.

 

 

As I said in the post before this one from Clawball...the witch hunt is on. Any difference is bad and gives advantages. Excellence should be punished, not emulated. If you beat us you cheat, go play with the other cheaters.

[JaxMan]

I have asked many times for names and addresses of transfer students that pay tuition that play sports at various schools. I have gotten no response from these teams or from posters that know probably every player on their team that they support. If these teams are saying that they are winning because or superior coaching, tradition, feeder system or anything other than tuition paying transfer students then what do they have to hide by telling who these tuition paying players are. Just tell the truth and put the so called haters of these teams to rest. The truth hurts! But this solution is to simple for everyone. I do not think that the TSSAA will look into this because they might find out that some public schools are acting like private schools and they might be made to apply the multiplier to adjust their enrolment made to play private. I do not believe in the multiplier. Just make all private schools play each other for a championship and make all tuition charging public schools play the privates also because they are acting like private schools. I never said that private and public charging tuition schools could not play each other or other public schools in the regular season. They would only play public vs public (not charging tuition) for a championship in one division and private vs public (charging tuition) in the other division. Public schools that charge tuition have been hiding for years in the public division instead of playing private like they should. TSSAA allows this.

 

look at the post on the 1a-2a-3a board entilted 2a enrollment versus polls....an Alcoa fan admit sit happens...I know also of students playin gout o fhteir zone at ublic school sin west tenn..is it happening yes...their are publics acting like privates and have no mulitplier...is it fair...no