What the heck is a "level playing field"

[Baldcoach]

"We had to look at what was best for our schools," Goodwin (DCA) said. "We want to try and remain in with everybody. (In Division II) with only one class in the all the other sports besides football, we weren??™t going to put all our other sports in that situation.

 

"We made the decision to stay in DI, and we felt like that was for the best."

 

I still think that was done on purpose, having no more than one class in basketball and other non-football sports, in order to frighten schools away from joining Division II.

 

 

Indian,

 

You were a big fan of Mulder and Sculley, right? Why in the world would a secret cabal of angry public school coaches, principals, and ADs try to frighten schools away from joining a division that they are trying to throw the privates into? My understanding is that the initial purpose WAS to lump all privates in, but when everyone finally cooled off the only reason they could come up with for DII was financial aid, and it just didn't seem fair to toss in the small privates that didn't offer it. After all, IF it is such a huge advantage then it is an advantage over the non-aid schools as well.

[Baldcoach]

D2 should be meant for all privates not just for teams like yours (MBA) and BA that openly recruit players from ALL over the state and country. It would be an absolute travesty if RC did it any other way than put ALL the privates in together!

 

 

1) Recruiting is illegal. If a school is openly recruiting they are openly voilating TSSAA rules. If you know this is going on as blatantly as you imply it is then you are obligated to report it. If not then quit making unfounded allegations.

 

2) What huge, mega-powerful, non-overcomable advantage do ALL privates have over ALL publics that merits splitting them out that way?

[old24eagle]

1) Recruiting is illegal. If a school is openly recruiting they are openly voilating TSSAA rules. If you know this is going on as blatantly as you imply it is then you are obligated to report it. If not then quit making unfounded allegations.

 

2) What huge, mega-powerful, non-overcomable advantage do ALL privates have over ALL publics that merits splitting them out that way?

 

I don't believe anyone out there public or private is dumb enough to OPENLY recruit. BUT you know as well as I do it is SECRETLY being done, by Public and Private in SOME places.

 

The advantages are $$$ which 90 % of the privates have more of and no matter how much you deny that it's true and makes a difference.

 

Private schools don't have to deal with the kids who don't want to be at school and who's parents don't care either.....what does that have to do with sports? Most coaches are some type of disciplinarian at their school wether it's in their job title or not. So add that on top of teaching class and coaching it's gong to take away from the time they should spend game planning or school planning.

[rick7425]

Private schools have more money.... No, wait, public schools get tax dollars and don't have to depend on private contributions.... Yeah, but private schools don't have to take undesirable students.... Well, on the other hand a learning disabled student who is a good athlete can't get into a private school.... Now, we all know that private schools don't have to deal with students who just don't care.... But then again, private schools get lots of spoiled kids who don't think they have to listen to anyone.... Ah yes, but you know very well that the poor kids at public schools don't have a chance to better themselves athletically in great facilities.... True, but what about the prevalence of couch-potato video game junkies among the private school students.... Still, none of that matters because private schools can be selective about who they admit.... But without financial aid, a private school isn't even in the running for a kid whose family can't aford the tuition.... Bottom line, some private schools may recruit.... And so may some public schools....

 

Yeah, I think I've got this "advantage" thing all figured out.

[bigchief]

What is the ONE commonality of TC's wins? Not one time did you show ANOTHER public school system in there! They were ALL private schools!!!!! That in itself should tell you that the field is weighted to the side of the privates that actively recruit players into their schools. Ronnie Carter's alma mater cant win the state championship in 2A because of Alcoa so he says the mulitiplier "hasn't worked" knowing that if it goes into effect Goodpasture goes up to 3A as they should have last time but the rule Carter put in was that NO school could go up more than one classification. While the mulitplier isn't perfect its ALOT BETTER than what we had!! The athelete vs student ratio is so much larger at the private school's as we all know. Its not a fair fight in most cases. Sure you can point out a school like TC or Alcoa but they are the EXCEPTION to the rule for the most part your privates dominate football week in and week out. For this reason there needs to be a total split or atleast make all the privates play 3A and up in football and 2A and up in basketball. At no time should they be allowed to play down in 1A or 2A in football and NEVER in 1A in basketball and the other sports. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

 

Ronnie Carter graduated high school before Goodpasture even opened its doors. He actually went to Goodlettsville High School in the early '60's. The school was closed in 1986 and made into a middle school. Why do you people spout off about stuff you have no knowledge of? It only makes you look stupid.

[Indian]

Indian,

 

You were a big fan of Mulder and Sculley, right? Why in the world would a secret cabal of angry public school coaches, principals, and ADs try to frighten schools away from joining a division that they are trying to throw the privates into? My understanding is that the initial purpose WAS to lump all privates in, but when everyone finally cooled off the only reason they could come up with for DII was financial aid, and it just didn't seem fair to toss in the small privates that didn't offer it. After all, IF it is such a huge advantage then it is an advantage over the non-aid schools as well.

 

 

 

There have been articles during every reclassification on how some private schools would rather have been playing Division II but didn't want to play the top level teams in everything but football. It's a domino effect, the fewer teams in, the more travel, and even less want to make the move. Even in this last period, the TSSAA waited until the teams made choices of going Division I or Division II, then made the decision to form 1A and 2A for in Division II for basketball and the other non-football sports. That move should have been beforehand to logically give the schools a better picture of who they'd be playing.

[itzme]

There have been articles during every reclassification on how some private schools would rather have been playing Division II but didn't want to play the top level teams in everything but basketball. It's a domino effect, the fewer teams in, the more travel, and even less want to make the move. Even in this last period, the TSSAA waited until the teams made choices of going Division I or Division II, then made the decision to form 1A and 2A for in Division II for basketball and the other non-football sports. That move should have been beforehand to logically give the schools a better picture of who they'd be playing.

 

You're making the assumption that TSSAA gives a rodent's rear about DII.

 

...they do not. It's an afterthought at best.

[UCSportsFan]

1) Recruiting is illegal. If a school is openly recruiting they are openly voilating TSSAA rules. If you know this is going on as blatantly as you imply it is then you are obligated to report it. If not then quit making unfounded allegations.

 

2) What huge, mega-powerful, non-overcomable advantage do ALL privates have over ALL publics that merits splitting them out that way?

 

 

Div II is allowed to recruit players in are they not? I do know that it was going on blatantly and one needs to look no further than Temple High School in Chattanooga. They were reported and should have lost their state championship last year. However TSSAA did next to nothing to them! Skogen was going there WITHOUT having to pay tuition and this was well documented in the Chattanooga newspaper. When all this came to light Temple then and only then sent out a "late IRS filing" showing where they paid Skogens father for coaching and he in return then and only then "supposedly" paid tuition. If thats not blatant my friend i don't know what is? You tell me? They were found guilty and nothing but a smack on the hand for a penalty. They were not stripped of their state championship as should have been the case. As for your second point well thats just plain silly. Year in and year out the private schools compete at a high leve in EVERY sport. Why because the have athletes to play them. You might be able to point out one or two public schools that excel in a certain specific sport year in and year out but they are the EXCEPTION to the rule. Most every private school excels over public schools year in and year out in all sports. How bad does FRIENDSHIP CHRISTIAN beat Red Boiling Springs EVERY year in football? basketball? golf? baseball? Surely FCS would have a down year somewhere you would think right? Nope not a chance against the small county schools. You are using the word "ALL" to be all inclusive so you will be able to point out that there are some public schools that beat privates. CPA, FRA, DCA, BA, BAYLOR, FCS, TEMPLE, MBA, POPE JPII, FATHER RYAN ETC... I could go on and on with the list of privates that will NEVER have a down year like ALL public schools face year in and year out because of the gross deficit of athletes to student ratio vs. the private schools. When is the last time ANY of these schools won only ONE or TWO games a year in football??? Now look at that same statistic using the public schools. If you're on the private side of the fence you go into the season knowing you have a CHANCE to win every game for the most part on the public side that is not the case. Level the playing field and you do that by making the privates play NO LOWER than 3A in football and AA in all other sports. Then and only then will it be EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to being a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

[UCSportsFan]

Ronnie Carter graduated high school before Goodpasture even opened its doors. He actually went to Goodlettsville High School in the early '60's. The school was closed in 1986 and made into a middle school. Why do you people spout off about stuff you have no knowledge of? It only makes you look stupid.

 

 

BigChief you have 1400+ posts on CoachT so you obviously use it quite often. Why not give up the $12 and support this great website? /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

[UCSportsFan]

Indian,

 

You were a big fan of Mulder and Sculley, right? Why in the world would a secret cabal of angry public school coaches, principals, and ADs try to frighten schools away from joining a division that they are trying to throw the privates into? My understanding is that the initial purpose WAS to lump all privates in, but when everyone finally cooled off the only reason they could come up with for DII was financial aid, and it just didn't seem fair to toss in the small privates that didn't offer it. After all, IF it is such a huge advantage then it is an advantage over the non-aid schools as well.

 

 

How fair is it for teams like RBS to have to line up against FCS every year? I promise you FCS would compete against BA better than small schools like RBS could compete with FCS. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> But God forbid all the privates were made to play in ONE division! Then some of the so callled "smaller" private schools might just have a LOSING SEASON and we wouldn't want that to happen now would we?? Then and only then would the privates have an inkling of what the small public schools face game in and game out.

[big red big blue]

You're making the assumption that TSSAA gives a rodent's rear about DII.

 

...they do not. It's an afterthought at best.

 

 

that point became more clear than ever this year with the Tennessean noted that none of the 9 BOC members attended either game of the D2 BCB. 7 of the 9 attended the D1 BCB.

[Baldcoach]

Div II is allowed to recruit players in are they not? I do know that it was going on blatantly and one needs to look no further than Temple High School in Chattanooga. They were reported and should have lost their state championship last year. However TSSAA did next to nothing to them! Skogen was going there WITHOUT having to pay tuition and this was well documented in the Chattanooga newspaper. When all this came to light Temple then and only then sent out a "late IRS filing" showing where they paid Skogens father for coaching and he in return then and only then "supposedly" paid tuition. If thats not blatant my friend i don't know what is? You tell me? They were found guilty and nothing but a smack on the hand for a penalty. They were not stripped of their state championship as should have been the case. As for your second point well thats just plain silly. Year in and year out the private schools compete at a high leve in EVERY sport. Why because the have athletes to play them. You might be able to point out one or two public schools that excel in a certain specific sport year in and year out but they are the EXCEPTION to the rule. Most every private school excels over public schools year in and year out in all sports. How bad does FRIENDSHIP CHRISTIAN beat Red Boiling Springs EVERY year in football? basketball? golf? baseball? Surely FCS would have a down year somewhere you would think right? Nope not a chance against the small county schools. You are using the word "ALL" to be all inclusive so you will be able to point out that there are some public schools that beat privates. CPA, FRA, DCA, BA, BAYLOR, FCS, TEMPLE, MBA, POPE JPII, FATHER RYAN ETC... I could go on and on with the list of privates that will NEVER have a down year like ALL public schools face year in and year out because of the gross deficit of athletes to student ratio vs. the private schools. When is the last time ANY of these schools won only ONE or TWO games a year in football??? Now look at that same statistic using the public schools. If you're on the private side of the fence you go into the season knowing you have a CHANCE to win every game for the most part on the public side that is not the case. Level the playing field and you do that by making the privates play NO LOWER than 3A in football and AA in all other sports. Then and only then will it be EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to being a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

 

 

I'm going to try to address these one at a time.

 

1) No, DII is not allowed to recruit. Those schools are allowed to offer students need based financial aid. The need is determined by a third party. Recruiting (ie. giving money or aid that is not need based) is still illegal for them.

 

2) Temple is NOT in DII, they are in DI. They were punished for Football infractions, thus the reason they did not forfeit their Basketball Championship. While we may think they got off too lightly, they did get punished. The size/severity of punishment is decided by the TSSAA which is run by other public school administrators. Talk to them about it.

 

3) Everyone, not just Friendship, beats Red Boiling Springs. How well has Friendship done in the last 5 years against TC?

 

4) You are mixing your DII privates (who are in their own division) like Baylor, MBA, and Father Ryan with DI privates like Temple. Further, you have worked yourself into a lather and are just spouting nonsense. Temple won 1 game this year. Baylor has struggled in Football for the last 4 or 5 years. FRA hasn't had a great Football year in quite a while, etc.

 

5) For every DI private you mentioned that is good I can name a DI public that is better and in the SAME CLASS. If you are going to point out the best privates let's compare them to the best publics...really, don't do that, because it kills your whole stance.

 

6) How many privates have won state in the last 3 years? Let me get this right, you think it is unfair for a small public to play a small private, but it is fair for a private like Silverdale in Chattanooga with 190 kids in the high school and a 4 year old program to be lumped in with Knox Fulton? LOL

 

7) Consider the DI privates you named as being good every year. How many DI Football players have they sent to colleges over the last 5 years? I'm guessing less than 10. The only 2 I know of are the reciever kid from GP that plays for USC and the tackle from DCA that plays for MTSU. There are probably a couple more. Now take a look at the good public programs and ask how many of their players have gone DI, and how many could have gone DI if they could have made high enough to qualify on the ACT. The best athletes are at the publics and big preps, not the small privates.

 

So I agree, let's level the playing field. The privates should be able to choose the best player on every public school team and sit him out for the game. Also, the truly dominating publics should have to play up a class or 2. Oh, wait, you meant we should punish the privates more than we already have. Ahh, I understand now...

 

Seriously, your proposal is not about levelling, it is about punishing. If you want levelling then go to a merit system. But you don't, in fact, you haven't even bothered learning the difference between DI and DII, because you ASSUME that all privates are alike.