Private- Public -Open Zone

[66in74]

This debate about public vs private vs. open zone is interesting.

Let's look at DLHS (but could be any private D1 school) as well as other facts:

 

1. Head coach at DLHS does not have to teach. He's listed as AD and Dean of Students. No academic lesson plans. No tests to grade. No classes to teach. No teaching certificate. Inactive teacher cert in 2000.

 

2. What's his salary? Salary at the public schools is decided by a County School Board etc and it pertains to all the schools in that county and it's public information.

It's based on level of education and years of service, not how well the football-athletic team does.

 

3. Most public school athlete's parents can't afford the $7800/yr to attend Lipscomb (private). Many have trouble making the $600 per month house payment.

 

4. At DLHS (private); student/athletes start with the "Lipscomb" plan at an early age and continue through high school.

At public schools, one coach teaches one plan in a youth league, another coach teaches another in middle and another may teach something else in high school. At Lipscomb (private) it's consistent from age 7-18. They are in there own world.

 

5. Lipscomb has use of it's "Universtity/College" facilities. Public doesn't have that luxury. Many don't have a university within 30 miles.

 

6.. Public vs. Open Zone: Public takes the students based on geographical area. Don't even have the option of letting potential student/athletes pay a fee.

 

7. At our public school, many of the athletes wouldn't even have pre-game food unless the boosters/few parents prepared it for them.

 

8. Most public schools don't have famous surgeons, doctors, lawyers, business owners, entertainers etc, who can write large checks to support athletics like private or "tuition paid" schools do.

 

Just a few thoughts about some of the differences.

[flashgordon]

This debate about public vs private vs. open zone is interesting.

Let's look at DLHS (but could be any private D1 school) as well as other facts:

 

1. Head coach at DLHS does not have to teach. He's listed as AD and Dean of Students. No academic lesson plans. No tests to grade. No classes to teach. No teaching certificate. Inactive teacher cert in 2000.

 

2. What's his salary? Salary at the public schools is decided by a County School Board etc and it pertains to all the schools in that county and it's public information.

It's based on level of education and years of service, not how well the football-athletic team does.

 

3. Most public school athlete's parents can't afford the $7800/yr to attend Lipscomb (private). Many have trouble making the $600 per month house payment.

 

4. At DLHS (private); student/athletes start with the "Lipscomb" plan at an early age and continue through high school.

At public schools, one coach teaches one plan in a youth league, another coach teaches another in middle and another may teach something else in high school. At Lipscomb (private) it's consistent from age 7-18. They are in there own world.

 

5. Lipscomb has use of it's "Universtity/College" facilities. Public doesn't have that luxury. Many don't have a university within 30 miles.

 

6.. Public vs. Open Zone: Public takes the students based on geographical area. Don't even have the option of letting potential student/athletes pay a fee.

 

7. At our public school, many of the athletes wouldn't even have pre-game food unless the boosters/few parents prepared it for them.

 

8. Most public schools don't have famous surgeons, doctors, lawyers, business owners, entertainers etc, who can write large checks to support athletics like private or "tuition paid" schools do.

 

Just a few thoughts about some of the differences.

 

While some of the "above" suppositions MAY apply to David Lipscomb...they DO NOT apply to "any D1 school" as you state.....the multiplier is a gross unfairness and simply is an attempt to punish D1 schools that tend to have stronger focus on the entire educational process for their children...not just athletics.

 

As for your suppositions, at most private D1 schools:

1. Not true...the head coaches teach and carry class loads at most if not all the D1 schools in A/AA for high school. You will find non paid volunteers at much of the lower levels.

2. Most are making less money than they would in public schools with coaching supplements....more often than not they are there to provide their own children with an educational process that they find superior from their point of view.

3. Many of these private parents sacrifice in many ways to provide their children with the opportunity to attend a D1 private....if it was all about athletics they would be at a DII schools where they would likely obtain aid!

4. Some D1 schools do benefit from continuity from K thru 12 in all things athletics, educations, etc. If schools are not "open zoned" you have virtually the same process available for publics. Elementary School A, B, and C feed to Middle school A and B that feed into high school A.

5. Lipscomb is clearly unique with a feed and support from a college or university....this would rarely apply to any other D1 school

6. N/A

7. Boosters and parents provide the pre-game meals etc. at D1 just as they may be provided at the public schools. the "Schools do not have the funds, resources, etc. to provide these....boosters and parents gladly step up to support the students

8. At D1 provate schools most of the "checks" that come in are from hard working Tennesseans...and your attempt to make this a class war is disingenous. When checks or support comes it is generally for the school...not for athletics. Once again the support at D1 schools tends to be for the overall experience. The support you reference might be somewhat more applicalbe for a DII school.

 

In summary don't try to paint D1 with a single brush any more than you would compare Riverdale with Red Boiling Springs in a likewise fashion. At the end of the day these studetns attend theri various institutions for a plethora of reasons and yes this does separate them in many ways....does further separating them athletically accomplish any thing positive for them co-existing?

[BigG]

This debate about public vs private vs. open zone is interesting.

 

4. At DLHS (private); student/athletes start with the "Lipscomb" plan at an early age and continue through high school.

At public schools, one coach teaches one plan in a youth league, another coach teaches another in middle and another may teach something else in high school. At Lipscomb (private) it's consistent from age 7-18. They are in there own world.

 

I just wanted to comment on this one, since my ears perked up when I was watching the Fulton game on TV. The announcer was commenting on how at fulton, the youth leagues (called "little falcons" or something of that nature) proudly were coached the same offense and defense as the highschool, so they knew what they were doing when they arrived at the highschool.

 

How is this any different than your comment #4?

 

I, as a highschool coach, cannot coach a middle school team that has potential players on that squad, neither can I coach a club team with potential players on the team.

 

Personally, I don't think Fulton OR Lipscomb are doing anything wrong with teaching the team tactics at a young age. I pays off. I just don't think it is fair to say.. "see, those private schools are doing this!" when at the same time the publics are doing it as well.

[flashgordon]

I just don't think it is fair to say.. "see, those private schools are doing this!" when at the same time the publics are doing it as well.

 

Simply put.....were I a middle school coach I would feel it practical and prudent to observe and implement the "system" from the high school where my students were headed with or without high school coaching support. A large part of middle school athletics outside of the "team" sports and physical education benefits is to prepare them for succcess at the next (high school) level much as they are taught in class to prepare them for the courses that they will see in high school. Should my middle school students be headed for a high school that placed particular emphasis on writing and comprehensive theme and research papers would it not be practical to place emphasis on this in middle school. Same goes for sports, particularly football where a system is so intricate in the team success. Condemning Lipscomb, Goodpasture, CPA.....or Franklin County high school or others for this is luducrous!

[gbo]

Good answer, I didn't get to see CPA play this year but heard they had a pretty good team.

 

Where did I say "privates drawing out of state students"

 

 

 

I know many Lipscomb families, teachers and administrators and believe my there are no boarding students at Lipscomb. It is not a boarding school.

 

David Lipscomb H. S. is located on the Lipscomb University campus, but no, none of those college students living in those dorms are playing football at DLHS. Ha Ha

[gbo]

You may correct I believe I heard from a quality source that lipscomb was more closely been associated with bringing in families from out of state ensuring they have a house and jobs so the dormatory housing is probaly incorrect but I have heard of DI privates providing residence for out of state players.

Personaly I think it would be a disservice to the privates to put them all together because they are sepperated by who and who does not give athletic scholarships. Some teams put more emphasis on academia and could not afford to buy the best players I would say the best 2A team Alcoa played this year CAK would fall into this group.

 

 

For someone who claims to be thesmartestpersonalive, you are extremely ill-informed of the nature of the athletic programs at the private schools you have mentioned.

[66in74]

While some of the "above" suppositions MAY apply to David Lipscomb...they DO NOT apply to "any D1 school" as you state.....the multiplier is a gross unfairness and simply is an attempt to punish D1 schools that tend to have stronger focus on the entire educational process for their children...not just athletics.

 

As for your suppositions, at most private D1 schools:

1. Not true...the head coaches teach and carry class loads at most if not all the D1 schools in A/AA for high school. You will find non paid volunteers at much of the lower levels.

2. Most are making less money than they would in public schools with coaching supplements....more often than not they are there to provide their own children with an educational process that they find superior from their point of view.

3. Many of these private parents sacrifice in many ways to provide their children with the opportunity to attend a D1 private....if it was all about athletics they would be at a DII schools where they would likely obtain aid!

4. Some D1 schools do benefit from continuity from K thru 12 in all things athletics, educations, etc. If schools are not "open zoned" you have virtually the same process available for publics. Elementary School A, B, and C feed to Middle school A and B that feed into high school A.

5. Lipscomb is clearly unique with a feed and support from a college or university....this would rarely apply to any other D1 school

6. N/A

7. Boosters and parents provide the pre-game meals etc. at D1 just as they may be provided at the public schools. the "Schools do not have the funds, resources, etc. to provide these....boosters and parents gladly step up to support the students

8. At D1 provate schools most of the "checks" that come in are from hard working Tennesseans...and your attempt to make this a class war is disingenous. When checks or support comes it is generally for the school...not for athletics. Once again the support at D1 schools tends to be for the overall experience. The support you reference might be somewhat more applicalbe for a DII school.

 

In summary don't try to paint D1 with a single brush any more than you would compare Riverdale with Red Boiling Springs in a likewise fashion. At the end of the day these studetns attend theri various institutions for a plethora of reasons and yes this does separate them in many ways....does further separating them athletically accomplish any thing positive for them co-existing?

 

 

1. I know of 3 D1 private schools that have head coaches that don't teach anything but football.

2. Most may be, but I know of several occasions where 5 figure and some 6 figure contributions were made.

3. Many do sacrifice, but I'll refer to 2.

4. Not always true. Some Middle Schools feed more than 1 High School.

5. DLHS does.

6. I'll accept a N/A. Are you in an open zone?

7. Refer to 2 again.

8. Refer to 2 again.

 

Since I had to refer to 2 again and again, it's pretty obvious there is a $ difference between public and private.

I'm not trying to broad paint, but the D1 schools have "some" and it doesn't take many, to make a financial advantage.

[66in74]

Simply put.....were I a middle school coach I would feel it practical and prudent to observe and implement the "system" from the high school where my students were headed with or without high school coaching support. A large part of middle school athletics outside of the "team" sports and physical education benefits is to prepare them for succcess at the next (high school) level much as they are taught in class to prepare them for the courses that they will see in high school. Should my middle school students be headed for a high school that placed particular emphasis on writing and comprehensive theme and research papers would it not be practical to place emphasis on this in middle school. Same goes for sports, particularly football where a system is so intricate in the team success. Condemning Lipscomb, Goodpasture, CPA.....or Franklin County high school or others for this is luducrous!

 

 

You probably would, but many coaches have egos that outweigh what they should do.

There are also situations where the middle school may feed 2 different high schools.

[a182pilot]

66in74,

 

I usually stand on the sidelines and just watch as people like you continue to stir the pot with your ignorance and stupidity not to mention your poor pitiful me crap.

I have listened for years about the privates who do this and the publics who don't have that. I have seen the privates punished for being privates with the mulitiplier. Guess what, when the privates are finally kicked out and the open enrollment schools are kicked out, (don't think they aren't next) you won't have anyone to play and then your poor pitiful little program might finally get the balls to do something.

Don't talk about things that you are pulling out of your butt. The list of things that you said about DLHS are false, ment to start trouble that is all. Especially the part about support from the university. The HS gets no, period, no support from the university not even in facilities. The NCAA doesn't allow it. As a matter of fact the gate taken up at all home games goes 100% to the university for rent. The stadium was built by a group of dedicated parents and friends not with their check books but their backs, blood and sweat.

Lipscomb's success comes from great parental involvement (again not their checkbooks but their labor and commitment). They also have a head coach that believes in God and can openly express and teach that. (You can't do that at a public school) He teaches team, brotherhood, repect, citizenship and honor. Winning isn't everything and it is nothing without honor. The young men who play for him have looked forward to playing for him since they entered the school in kindergarten or first grade. Come to a home game sometime and see how many kids and their parents from the elementary school come to those games. Those same young men would follow him and all the coaching staff to the ends of the earth. The players and parents that are involed in the program are commited to quality, that is what is expected and nothing less is accepted.

The people who write garbage like this aren't involved with their programs and look for excuses why their boys don't win other than to blame everyone but the real problem. Here's a clue, quit typing and chatting and blogging and go ask you head coach what you can do to help him, then do it.

[Baldcoach]

1. I know of 3 D1 private schools that have head coaches that don't teach anything but football.

2. Most may be, but I know of several occasions where 5 figure and some 6 figure contributions were made.

3. Many do sacrifice, but I'll refer to 2.

4. Not always true. Some Middle Schools feed more than 1 High School.

5. DLHS does.

6. I'll accept a N/A. Are you in an open zone?

7. Refer to 2 again.

8. Refer to 2 again.

 

Since I had to refer to 2 again and again, it's pretty obvious there is a $ difference between public and private.

I'm not trying to broad paint, but the D1 schools have "some" and it doesn't take many, to make a financial advantage.

 

 

1. Interesting because I work in a DI private and I don't know any...but even so do they do other jobs like Administration? See my comments below...

2. This is where you trip yourself up and let us all know you are making stuff up. If 'contributions' were made to a coach by someone, how would you know unless you were the person who contributed or the coach? I would think that something like that would be private. So now we all know that when you say "I know" you mean "I think" or "I have heard" or "I suspect". None of which mean "I know"

3. I'll refer to #2 also...lol...we call this "hoisted on your own petard"

4. Rarely. And the public school coaches who the schools are zoned for can actually go and recruit the kids if it is zoned for more than one...legally. Private school coaches can't.

5.LOL!! The University does NOT play Football, so I guess your facilities argument crashes there. Further, the High School has its own facilities, the University has its own. Thus we again see you are making this crap up as you go.

6. ??

7. Happily!

8. Happily!

 

Get a clue and some facts. Your charges are baseless against Lipscomb, but more importantly they are completely off the chart about most small privates.

 

As for the coach not teaching, how many publics have coaches who are ADs and only teach 4 PE classes...all with Football players in them doing off season workouts? Or how many publics have a head coach who is a principle rather than a teacher ( I know of 2 that we have played)? I fail to see you point here. If someone is working in administration (like you claim for DLHS' coach) does that somehow disqualify them for a coaching position?

 

p.s. You do realize that most of us in small privates teach MORE classes than our public cousins for LESS money, right? Our Head Coach teaches 6 classes a day, our D-line coach teaches 5...all High School Math, I teach 5...3 Chemistry, 1 Accelerated Chemistry, and one AP Chemistry. The other privates that I know are the same. Why? Because we dont have the money to hire coaches only...another of your misinformed insinuations.

[66in74]

66in74,

 

I usually stand on the sidelines and just watch as people like you continue to stir the pot with your ignorance and stupidity not to mention your poor pitiful me crap.

I have listened for years about the privates who do this and the publics who don't have that. I have seen the privates punished for being privates with the mulitiplier. Guess what, when the privates are finally kicked out and the open enrollment schools are kicked out, (don't think they aren't next) you won't have anyone to play and then your poor pitiful little program might finally get the balls to do something.

Don't talk about things that you are pulling out of your butt. The list of things that you said about DLHS are false, ment to start trouble that is all. Especially the part about support from the university. The HS gets no, period, no support from the university not even in facilities. The NCAA doesn't allow it. As a matter of fact the gate taken up at all home games goes 100% to the university for rent. The stadium was built by a group of dedicated parents and friends not with their check books but their backs, blood and sweat.

Lipscomb's success comes from great parental involvement (again not their checkbooks but their labor and commitment). They also have a head coach that believes in God and can openly express and teach that. (You can't do that at a public school) He teaches team, brotherhood, repect, citizenship and honor. Winning isn't everything and it is nothing without honor. The young men who play for him have looked forward to playing for him since they entered the school in kindergarten or first grade. Come to a home game sometime and see how many kids and their parents from the elementary school come to those games. Those same young men would follow him and all the coaching staff to the ends of the earth. The players and parents that are involed in the program are commited to quality, that is what is expected and nothing less is accepted.

The people who write garbage like this aren't involved with their programs and look for excuses why their boys don't win other than to blame everyone but the real problem. Here's a clue, quit typing and chatting and blogging and go ask you head coach what you can do to help him, then do it.

 

 

I had a relative that played at Lipscomb for 4 years and I'm extremely proud of him. He was on a State Championship team and and played in another. He is a fine young Christian man. I wish public could talk about God and Jesus etc, but that's another blog.

Don't tell me the University doesn't support them. Maybe not $ wise, but they do. I picked him up at practice several times when he played. He was lifting weights at the "University" faciltiy. Baseball was using the ones located under DL bleachers.

At our public school we have a 20x30 weight room that the Football, Baseball, Basketball, Softball, Volleyball, Wrestling, and Soccer all have to use. We approached our school board/government about building some extra facilities. There was so much red tape that we got disgusted after about 3 years of trying.

 

Hey-just back from sowing some rye grass seed on the playing field and the practice field. Thought I'd just let you know. A guy before me took his tractor over and aeriated first.

[Baldcoach]

I had a relative that played at Lipscomb for 4 years and I'm extremely proud of him. He was on a State Championship team and and played in another. He is a fine young Christian man. I wish public could talk about God and Jesus etc, but that's another blog.

Don't tell me the University doesn't support them. Maybe not $ wise, but they do. I picked him up at practice several times when he played. He was lifting weights at the "University" faciltiy. Baseball was using the ones located under DL bleachers.

At our public school we have a 20x30 weight room that the Football, Baseball, Basketball, Softball, Volleyball, Wrestling, and Soccer all have to use. We approached our school board/government about building some extra facilities. There was so much red tape that we got disgusted after about 3 years of trying.

 

Hey-just back from sowing some rye grass seed on the playing field and the practice field. Thought I'd just let you know. A guy before me took his tractor over and aeriated first.

 

 

Check my earlier post on the topic

 

Are you implying here that college weights designed for Baseball and Basketball are somehow better than high school weights? Are they heavier or something? More muscle for the reps?

 

I have a suggestion for your weight room...build a bigger one. If you are in a rural area your buddy with a tractor, you, and about 3 other guys can get enough surplus wood and siding and concrete and metal roofing to put up a good one for about nothing. I know, I used to fix up/rebuild old houses. Heck, I'll come do it with ya if you'll stop making stuff up about DLHS.