privates have no advantage

[panfan]

DII can offer aid which is why they are seperated. DI privates can not. While DII privates should play with everyone else (with a large type multiplier), they are not what we were talking about.

 

Baylor and McCallie do let academic standards slide when it comes to athletes, but not by much. And both will kick kids out if they don't take care of business once they get there. I think if you were to ask both schools they would tell you that they are looking for kids to do more than 8 to 3. Good athletes and good tuba players alike may get a nod over a kid who just sits around and studies.

[just1np]

panfan, it it not my place to speak for QueenBee, but I think you missed her point.

Public schools take everyone, private schools deny those who do not meet their requirements. She used the example of mentally retarded or disabled children. Does your private school have any mentally retarded or disabled children? I don't know, but I'm guessing they don't. Parents of children in those situations spend so much money just trying to keep their child alive it is unreal. I seriously doubt a private school is something they would be able to afford.

From what I can see private schools are only interested in teaching those who can meet their academic and financial requirements, not those with special needs. If I'm wrong let me know. I don't want to falsely accuse anyone. I just have trouble seeing it.

So, I think she is saying in a round about way, that she is proud to be associated with an organization focused on ALL the children, not a fraction. But once again, I can't speak for her.

[Indian]

The 2001-2002 results are more relevant (5 state titles) because obviously they're the most recent. Many of those players will be back next year, most or all of the coaches will, the winning tradition will carry over and so on. What happened 10 years ago in football isn't too releveant since three of 1A's best Boyd-Buchanan, Ezell-Harding and CPA, were not contenders then. In just the past few years some of the former also-rans have made huge strides, and it will probably continue with new private schools and or/teams jumping up all over (I think Temple's football team will be a powerhouse eventually). A couple of the 1A privates then may have dropped a little but not too much, you still have USJ, DCA and so on. Remember, it's just 16 teams so you're not going to have 16 super 1A private football programs. Enough of them are at least strong to show something's unequal. And if you think 7 of 10 is relevant, check out 2A since the 5-class system began (or before in AA if you want to count Brentwood Academy). Also look how few private schools there are in AA and compare that to the state success.

[ie3]

We can debate, we can argue until the cows come home. It all comes down to one thing, money. Money for coaches, money for equipment, money for facilities, and training. Even in these days, money to keep the doors open. At our small public school, 1A, if the budget is not soon passed, our principal will have to ask the coach to pick up 2 more classes in order not to cut curriculum. That is the monster advantage. How many of the privates have to use equipment that is older than the players?

My son uses shoulder pads that MY uncle used in high school (has his name in them!)You will never see a private having to make those types of sacrifices.

Our coach receives a massive $2500 a year to coach football. You will not see a private coach do that, unless things have changed in just the last few years.

There are very big advantages to the privates, you just have to open your eyes to see them.

[VolunteerGeneral]

ie3...what school are you talking about? That is absolutely horrible!!! It`s not necessarily money though, it is support that is lacking. There is no way a school should not have a good booster program. I see public schools around here have fundraisers all the time for sports, band, cheerleading, etc... I know you did not blame private schools for your schools problems, but having equipment that old is a local problem. I think you`d be surprised at how much money most private schools actually give their sport programs. They are there for academic reasons. They aren`t going to budget a whole lot of money out of tuition funds for sports. The private schools I`m familiar with have fundraisers and such and get most athletic money through donations.

 

Does your team have facemasks??? Just kidding...I think :^)

[ELA]

V.G. this is what I have been trying to tell you for several weeks if not months! MOST small 1A and some 2A schools are just like this one! Annual budgets of less than $7500, low, if any support from the community, almost no coaching supplements... what this guy is telling you is the NORM, not the exception! IF... and I repeat... IF we have a new budget approved in Nashville, I will start the season with one paid assistant coach and there is a possibility that he may have to also coach another fall sport at another school while also trying to help me! If there is little or no support for athletics in a school, you can't make it happen by "preaching to the choir." Another thing is the local economy. Most small rural schools don't have any industry base to speak of in their counties. Without industry support, it is difficult to raise large sums of money. You and I know there are huge social and economic differences between the "haves and the have-nots" in public education. These small, very isolated schools barely keep their heads above water! It all adds up and effects the performance of the team. A coach that is a good motivator can raise some new interest, but if there isn't any money in the community, you "can't get blood out of a turnip." We may disagree on how much of an advantage MOST private schools have, but at least we can acknowledge that MOST rural schools have lots of problems that MOST privates don't face! It is all a matter of perspective!

 

My team uses a sled that was purchase in 1957! Every year we try to weld, patch, and paint it enough to get through the year! Anyone with $3500 who wants to donate to a small public school, we would accept your generosity and purchase a new one! We also find our selves from time to time giving football money to baseball! In small school districts most sports are not self-supporting! V.G. I invite you to attend a baseball or football game at our school and you will see what we are talking about. Great kids, very little speed, no money, and a handful of good, honest, hard working parents who love their kids but simply can't pay anymore to support athletics.

[Edited by ELA on 7/1/02 7:30P]

[pujo]

Panfan, I know you have got to be joking, or is this just another attempt to mislead everyone. For one, I know you get to pick the kids that go to your school. I also know that their NOT all a bunch of untalented geeks. I know several on the team this year where good in middle school and so did everyone else. We have already had this debate. Secondly, I don't know if you read the post a while back about one of Ezell's great football players having to attend summer school or not, but I don't believe that they have to acore 1000 (or approach it) on the SAT in the 8th grade to attend (evidently he wasn't that smart a geek). I also don't believe the garbage you just posted about starting with a bunch of geeks and just working really hard with them to turn them into the great athletes they are today. I know not all of them where that great, and the coaches probably did have to work pretty hard with some of them, but the ones we've been talking about did not develop their talent/speed at Ezell Hardin. You are sincerly disillusioned if you think that anyone is going to beleive that junk you just posted. Another thing, about the kid who couldn't get in because his parents couldn't afford it, what happened to work study? I know they're allowed to do that. I have seen several posts on this board stating that option. If he wanted to attend Ezell, and his grandmother had been with them for 30 years, why didn't they let him work his way through. I guess there's no loyalty to devoted employees at this private school either, evidently another bad trait. I find it hard to believe anything that you just said, and it takes an idiot to set in front of their computer and type privates have no advantages. You'll have as many students as the little 1a rural public schools, but you get to hand pick them. That is a definite advantage.

 

One last thing, we teach our boys to win, but we also want them to understand when they have been dealt a rotten hand. Sure they got beat, but it was to a team that should not have even been playing in their division. They may as well have played the 2a or 3a state chsmpionship game. It would have been about the same, and we may have even done a lot better in it. No, our boys are proud, and we're proud of them. When they go out on the field (the one that is so terrible according to some of your west schools, like ELA we accept donations) we expect them to win every game, and they expect the same thing out of themselves. I guess that's why we have had such a hard time with this, we lost one game last year (besides the state), to a 4a school. I can handle that, they should have beat us. It is unfortunate that we do not have the advantages of the private schools we wouldn't have this dilemma right now. The bad news is, the publics don't want to play the privates in the play-offs. Myself, I don't mind at all to play them during the year, playing good teams only make you better. Their will eventually be something done about it, but I don't know what. I hope we meet Ezell again this year in the play-offs, we are getting better on pass defense, and I don't believe you all will be quite as good since you lost one of your best receivers (that one your coaches worked so hard to train from scratch because he was just a smart rich geek when you'll got him), yeah right. LOL.

[Edited by pujo on 7/1/02 3:59P]

[ie3]

VG,

I know you sincerely believe what you are saying, and most of it is fair and balanced. What you, and some others lose sight of is the politics of the situation. The private schools have as their boosters, by definition, those families with more disposable income. While the small rural public schools have, by definition, families with less disposable income. This is supported by many of the posts on this and other boards that talk about athletes going to public schools because their families could not afford the tuition at a private institution. You might think I am biased by my situation, but be well aware I would send my son to the institution that offered him the best education if another were available.

That being said, he goes to the smallest school in the largest (by area) county in the state. There are 5 high schools in the county. Fully 1/2 the money for budgets goes to the city system. Fully 2/3 of the sales tax goes to the city budget. With on 1/4 of the county population the city is to us what the privates are to most of you out there.

I know for a FACT that the city school recruits some of the best county players. I have first hand knowledge of that. My son will never have anything to do with that. So instead of playing for an ET power, he plays at what amounts to one of the 1A doormats. PUJO will know who I am talking about, Cloudland was ahead I believe 4 touchdowns in the first quarter this past year.

Now, the sarcasm was evident in your reply. The set of shoulder pads I alluded to was his second this year. The first became unusable when the wire holding them together broke. Yes they have face masks, all on refurb helmets that are in need of more refurb.

The boosters, yes we have a booster club. Unfortunately, the money raised is divided evenly between sports. Somehow, I think football equipment is a little more expensive than, say volleyballs.

Yes I am bitter. Not at the private schools, but at the legislature that continually short changes the kids. The division of funds I talked about, that is legislated in Nashville, where they have no idea of the daily struggle of the rest of the state.

And by the way, where do the politicians kids and grandkids go? I don't want to make assumptions.

[ELA]

To add support to PUJO's statement (good mark PUJO), you can't teach speed! I have talked to the best speed and strength coaches in the business (Titans/Oilers, Cowboys, UT, Vandy) and they tell me you can improve speed over the course of four years by .020-.04 seconds (40) with well trained coaches and a dedicated athlete, but you will never take a 5.5-40 Freshman and turn him into a 4.3-40 all star TB or WR in four years! Speed is a natural portion of genetics and you either have speed or you don't! IT CAN'T BE COACHED! You can say the same thing about power lifting! I have a kid who is one of the most dedicated students I have ever seen... he is always the first in the weight room and the last to leave every time the doors are open, and he has improved greatly but he will never be the strongest person on the team no matter how hard he works! I have another kid who seldom comes to the weight room, but he is one of the strongest on the team! It is more about genetics and less about coaching!

 

A good coach must take what talent walks through the doors and try to win ball games by teaching technique, skills, and motivating his team to do their best. However, if he plays against teams in his region who have players with natural gifts (speed, strength, size) he will always be fighting an up-hill battle! "SPEED KILLS" is a very true saying, and if you don't have it, you can't win too many games!

[Edited by ELA on 7/1/02 7:41P]

[sportsguy1]

1. I do believe that every year matters. Sorry. You can't base a split on one year.

 

2. Ya'll keep saying we don't have the athletes the private schools do. Well you don't deserve to win then. I guess ya'll are saying that you want to win state titles with sub par athletes. Private schools don't pick athletes. Ya'll act like there is an athlete auction that they go to and pick up players from. They pick students from ones who voluntarily apply there.

 

3. I can't believe ya'll would make excuses like they should be in 2A or 3A anyway. That is the worst, whiniest, and most pitiful example to set for your kids. That has sore loser written all over it and you don't deserve to win with that kind of an attitude. If Ezell was cheating that would be one thing but Ezell didn't cheat to win. If they weren't supposed to be in 1A then the TSSAA wouldn't let them be in it.

 

You keep saying that private schools have some advantages over public schools. Sure some do but some don't. Some public schools have advantages over other ones. Obviously schools like South Pittsburg and Bruceton have advantages over a school like RBS.

 

Like others have said why can't ya'll find out why schools like South Pitt and Bruceton are so successful and try to become more like them. But instead you have this "we can never be that good attitude" so "TSSAA please cater to our needs and weaken the competition so our egos will feel better."

[QueenBee]

No...my comments weren't directed at anyone in particular...just a general comment...the kids have to come first...

 

I guess what bothers me most about the whole situation is that I get the feeling that maybe some coaches are out there saying to their teams that they can't win against another team just because they are a private school...and what I think they should be telling them is that if you work hard enough...if you play to the best of your ability...maybe you'll get that big W...but if you don't...at least you'll be able to look at yourself in the mirror because you've done the absolute best you could do...

 

Life isn't fair...there will always be someone or something out there that's a little bit better...but how much sweeter that victory is...when you do win...

 

I don't know what the answer is...so don't anyone take my comments about this topic personally...I was a private school student...and am a public school teacher...wouldn't trade either experience for anything in the world...I'd just like to see ALL the kids come out of this as the winners...

[TheEgoHasLanded]

In regards to equipment

 

I went to a private school and played football all four years in high school.

 

I had douglas shoulder pads, I had 3 pairs of under armor, and a pair of long sleeve white underarmor.

 

I paid for it all...We raise money every year, last year me and my friends were able to raise 1600 just from one kind individual! That was 400 dollars a piece...we used the money to build a new weightroom, sound system, locker room with new lockers, and we painted our face masks black, we bought white game pants, we bought black game pants, we got nicer jerseys, we got new weights, expanded the weight room, decorated the weight room with pictures, bought more weights, bought more free weights, every member of the team also had 2 pairs of football shorts, at least 2 T-shirts and either a sweater vest, or a nice polo style shirt to wear on Thursdays...

 

we paid for it with our money, or we had a lift a thon and raised it ourselves...if a bunch of 14-17 year old kids who on the average don't even have jobs or a car are able to come up with nearly 20,000 each year...then I think it's possible for you guys to figure something out...

 

You say that private school kids work a lot harder then public school kids, and I choose not to comment on that, but I don't see any the private school kids complaining when the basketball coach asks for 250 to 300 dollars to be on the team, or at least 200 dollars from the football coach or you get the bad girdle...we went out and raised the money...not every private school kid is as rich as you guys think...I have said on many times many of my friends are going to have to go to a community college or a college near home because of lack of financial freedom.