Too many schools

[Indian]

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2008/mar/21/...hools-hamilton/

 

Interesting piece but I disagree with his logic and it looks like excuse making for the large schools in Chattanooga. You have Ooltewah with 1800 students, also benefits from apparently very soft zone rules in the county, would they be that much better if they had 2000? If they're averaging 70 points a game in basketball and a 25 point scorer from Grace was instead attending Ooltewah, that wouldn't mean Ooltewah would start averaging 95.

 

Some of the teams that would be state contenders with more from their own area playing are probably already state contenders anyway such as Ooltewah softball. Ooltewah is the best example here since they're the largest school in the county.

 

I don't think the small private schools have enough difference makers on a yearly basis to turn solid 4A, 5A football teams and AAA basketball teams into state champions. They sure couldn't turn mediocre or worse teams into contenders. Could they help, sure, one of Temple's best basketball players had been at Ooltewah if I'm not mistaken. Maybe he could have carried them to the state tournament especially if they hosted the sectional but if they were medicore without him could they have beaten an Antioch? And as mentioned, some of the large schools in Chattanooga already appear to have athletes attending from outside their area of town.

 

The small privates also have students from outside Hamilton County including North Georgia so those athletes would have no effect on their neighborhood school, as it related to Chattanooga. Twenty-eight percent of the population of metro Chattanooga is in North Georgia according to an article just this morning on population, so a good number of athletes wouldn't be attending a Red Bank or Ooltewah. Can't believe he missed that part of it.

[Bighurt]

JMHO. From an education standpoint, I think there is a point at which school become too large to educate their students effectively. However from an athletic standpoint, I can see his point somewhat. Indian would know the local situation much better than I would.

[Indian]

This could probably be adapted for any area and yes if you have some of the top players added to a program it should improve a team. Just adding students wouldn't, necessarily. Here is where I think he's stretching things:

 

"Put simply, our best local athletes are now so scattered throughout the county that the talent pool has become too shallow to support the large-school programs."

 

These large schools still have 1000 to 1800 students. Unless he's implying more than the expected percentage of the students going to the private schools are exceptional athletes, the large schools should have more than enough remaining. They should anyway probably.

 

In Chattanooga, very few of players in class A and Class 1A private schools would be difference makers at the 4A, 5A and AAA level, in my view. Recent examples have been the Skogens at Temple, McMasters at Grace. For the ones that would be difference makers you'd have to look at a case by case basis to get any kind of reasonable evaluation. Wherever he or she would be playing, would it be enough to lift the neighborhood school to the state championship level. Or wherever the school, would that player be a significant talent increase above the player he or she would be starting over? Plus as mentioned, an unknown amount but still probably quite a few of the students live outside Hamilton County. Matt Peardon at Boyd-Buchanan from a few seasons back, the girl from Temple who signed with Mississippi State basketball last year, fall into that group.

 

Something else he's missing or not focusing on is the number in Hamilton County who attend public school outside their area of town or at least away from the closest school. That might be a valid reason behind some of the large school success, even if it's not resulting in state titles, and might help explain some struggles for certain programs (at least part of the reason). It's discussed a bit in the basketball forum under the pregrame all-star game topic. Howard, for one, has lost Division I signing talent to other areas according to one of their fans. I believe Red Bank's football (4A semis) and basketball teams (AAA state) this year were both helped by this soft zoning and two 1-AA signing lineman came from North Georgia.

 

I remember one year way back, Red Bank's softball made the state tournament with six or seven starters from Hixson and another from East Ridge. I was familiar with much of the team and didn't know of one player from Red Bank or their other feeder area, Signal Mountain. Most of those signed Division I. At about the same time I knew of some Division I signing players who lived in the Tyner area but didn't attend school there, and that program was one of the worst in the city. You couldn't ever tell how one or more talented players attending another school might domino things, send some others packing to another school for more playing time, etc.

[MVM]

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2008/mar/21/...hools-hamilton/

 

Interesting piece but I disagree with his logic and it looks like excuse making for the large schools in Chattanooga. You have Ooltewah with 1800 students, also benefits from apparently very soft zone rules in the county, would they be that much better if they had 2000? If they're averaging 70 points a game in basketball and a 25 point scorer from Grace was instead attending Ooltewah, that wouldn't mean Ooltewah would start averaging 95.

 

Some of the teams that would be state contenders with more from their own area playing are probably already state contenders anyway such as Ooltewah softball. Ooltewah is the best example here since they're the largest school in the county.

 

I don't think the small private schools have enough difference makers on a yearly basis to turn solid 4A, 5A football teams and AAA basketball teams into state champions. They sure couldn't turn mediocre or worse teams into contenders. Could they help, sure, one of Temple's best basketball players had been at Ooltewah if I'm not mistaken. Maybe he could have carried them to the state tournament especially if they hosted the sectional but if they were medicore without him could they have beaten an Antioch? And as mentioned, some of the large schools in Chattanooga already appear to have athletes attending from outside their area of town.

 

The small privates also have students from outside Hamilton County including North Georgia so those athletes would have no effect on their neighborhood school, as it related to Chattanooga. Twenty-eight percent of the population of metro Chattanooga is in North Georgia according to an article just this morning on population, so a good number of athletes wouldn't be attending a Red Bank or Ooltewah. Can't believe he missed that part of it.

 

Indian I do agree with the article, 1 or 2 outstanding or even yet very good players can change a team.

[Indian]

I agree with that statement but I don't know if there are enough in the 1A private school level in Chattanooga that could be AAA, 4A and 5A difference makers, significantly better than what's available-especially when he's giving that as a reason for lack of state titles. That's on a consistent basis, there are obvious exceptions, but that's also taking out those who don't reside in Hamilton County. You'd also probably be splitting up such players between several schools.

[MVM]

I agree with that statement but I don't know if there are enough in the 1A private school level in Chattanooga that could be AAA, 4A and 5A difference makers, significantly better than what's available-especially when he's giving that as a reason for lack of state titles. That's on a consistent basis, there are obvious exceptions, but that's also taking out those who don't reside in Hamilton County. You'd also probably be splitting up such players between several schools.

 

Indian I must be honest I don't keep up with HS basketball but in soccer in the Chatt. area it has a HUGE impact.

[Indian]

I don't keep up with soccer but I will probably start since the school here has gotten a program going. How many of the small school privates have dominating teams, and how many of the large publics would be aided, made into state contenders, with some of those players? A wild guess, many would be attending Ooltewah, Hixson, Red Bank (off Signal Mountain) but are those teams good enough to begin with that a couple more would make them great?

[mtnman]

This was the latest coaches poll for boys soccer. It is pretty much the same every year.

 

Chattanoogan.com Coaches Poll:

1. Baylor

2. McCallie

3. Notre Dame

4T. CCS

4T. Ooltewah

6. CSAS

7. Soddy-Daisy

8. Cleveland

9. Red Bank

10. McMinn County

 

ND, CCS, Grace and Boyd are the three main small privates in boys/girls soccer.

 

Yes, these players would be difference makers on other teams. (the good ones, obviously)

 

Ooltewah, CSAS and Soddy-Daisy have held their own with the privates but Baylor and McCallie have dominated for years.

[MVM]

Mtnman I'll agree with that, and during the girls season drop McCallie and insert GPS.

 

Indian I think Signal Mtn. should have some really good soccer teams right off the bat. I had heard that Coach Knox will be leaving R. Bank and moving to the new HS on Signal. She's a really good coach.

[cbg]

JMHO. From an education standpoint, I think there is a point at which school become too large to educate their students effectively. However from an athletic standpoint, I can see his point somewhat. Indian would know the local situation much better than I would.

 

 

I am not sure that it's the number of students in a school that hurts the education, it is placing so many students in facilities not large enough and having too many students in a classroom. One of the things this country seems to forget is that small classroom size (12-15 students per class) is much better than having a large number of students (25-30) per class. I have even heard of 2 algebra teachers combining classes and co-teaching (1 will be the teacher this week and 1 will be the teacher next week) in an auditorium. You have 40 or 50+ students in 1 algebra class. Parent expectations and small classroom size are the bigest secrets that the private schools have to work with.

[OLD PIRATE]

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2008/mar/21/...hools-hamilton/

 

Interesting piece but I disagree with his logic and it looks like excuse making for the large schools in Chattanooga. You have Ooltewah with 1800 students, also benefits from apparently very soft zone rules in the county, would they be that much better if they had 2000? If they're averaging 70 points a game in basketball and a 25 point scorer from Grace was instead attending Ooltewah, that wouldn't mean Ooltewah would start averaging 95.

 

Some of the teams that would be state contenders with more from their own area playing are probably already state contenders anyway such as Ooltewah softball. Ooltewah is the best example here since they're the largest school in the county.

 

I don't think the small private schools have enough difference makers on a yearly basis to turn solid 4A, 5A football teams and AAA basketball teams into state champions. They sure couldn't turn mediocre or worse teams into contenders. Could they help, sure, one of Temple's best basketball players had been at Ooltewah if I'm not mistaken. Maybe he could have carried them to the state tournament especially if they hosted the sectional but if they were medicore without him could they have beaten an Antioch? And as mentioned, some of the large schools in Chattanooga already appear to have athletes attending from outside their area of town.

 

The small privates also have students from outside Hamilton County including North Georgia so those athletes would have no effect on their neighborhood school, as it related to Chattanooga. Twenty-eight percent of the population of metro Chattanooga is in North Georgia according to an article just this morning on population, so a good number of athletes wouldn't be attending a Red Bank or Ooltewah. Can't believe he missed that part of it.

 

Old Pirate gives the article high merit. The school problem in Chatt is a stand alone situation, problems have exsisted for years. Simply put, there is a large portion of parents that do not / will not send their kids to schools with inner city kids. OP says each have their own reasons,explanations/excuses. Anyone, who can remember back when Chatt school system became torn between city and county. Zoning and busing became huge issues and the new privates are the result. With all the new privates springing up it has to effect the public schools athletically.

OP wonders..................... what would be the total white student count at Howard or Brainard?

[Bighurt]

I am not sure that it's the number of students in a school that hurts the education, it is placing so many students in facilities not large enough and having too many students in a classroom. One of the things this country seems to forget is that small classroom size (12-15 students per class) is much better than having a large number of students (25-30) per class. I have even heard of 2 algebra teachers combining classes and co-teaching (1 will be the teacher this week and 1 will be the teacher next week) in an auditorium. You have 40 or 50+ students in 1 algebra class. Parent expectations and small classroom size are the bigest secrets that the private schools have to work with.

 

I agree. Class size is the key element in my opinion.